Belzebutt

I've seen specs for all these cars, but they use different units and have different engines or whatnot. If you had a race between these three, who would win?



Also, what are the specs and performance figures on the AWD JDM Accord?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Of those three, I would say the Euro-R wins easily. Most HP and probably the least weight with marginally stiffer suspension.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and shouldn't this be a poll?

Dan?

Dan Martin

Good idea.

jiggaman

i need more information to vote on this poll

savage

yes list all the specs you have on each version...

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

TSX Specs

Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 200(147) / 6800
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 166(225) / 4500
Weight lb (kg): 3230 (1466)

iamhomin

From bonestock, wouldn't the Euro-R be the fastest of the three options that are given? The votes should be unanimous.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Euro-R

Horsepower (kW [PS]/rpm) 162[220]/8000
Torque (Nm [kgm]/rpm) 206[21.0]/6000
Weight (kg) 1390

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Euro Accord

Maximum power (PS @ rpm) 190@6800
Maximum torque (Nm @ rpm) 220@4500
Weight (kg) 1400

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

That should give people a rough comparison. Someone can feel free to combine that info into one post.

sipark

I'm sold!

Euro-R

dom

I have no idea.

fdl

isnt it obviously a euro-r. 20 more hp, and less weight.

This poll is

dom

TSX -20hp but +20lb-ft. I'm not convinced the Euro R is the winner here.

Maxboost

Are we talking about circuit race, drag race, or gymkhana??? cuz it could make a diff between tsx's torque and euro r horse power.

Whiskers

I picked the TSX because I would be driving it.

xizor

technically its not a "Euro Accord Type-R", its an Accord Euro-R.

I'd say even w/ less torque the Euro-R still wins because it has a stiffer suspension, lighter weight, and LSD. It should get a better launch in a drag, and pull better around turns in a circuit.

7or8

I tought I read someone that the TSX has even stiffer suspension than the Euro-R.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

We have a stiffer suspension than the European accord (by about 10%) but not the Euro-R.

Euro Accord is not the same as the Euro-R.

7or8

Ok, I found where I read it from..it's in this article from Temple Of VTEC http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=2


"I was informed by the lead chassis engineer on the Accord project that the TSX's suspension calibrations were around 5% stiffer than even the Accord Euro R's, and I have no reason to doubt the claim." (near the end of the 3rd paragraph)

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Hmm...that's kind of surprising since the models with an R designation are usually the most sporting.

Well, if it came straight from the horse's mouth, who am I to deny it.

dom

Like Xizor said, Euro R does not = Type R.

7or8

werd up.

xizor

Euro-R doesn't even come in anything like championship white does someone have the spring rates to compare the Euro-R and TSX? I remember someone saying the Euro-R was pretty stiff.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Quick look on google comes up with nothing for spring rates. I think that this information would be proprietary info so it probably wouldn't be easy to come across.

fdl

that +20lb-ft wont make any difference in a drag race. HP is king here.

And i thought euro r was type -r? Whats the diff?

PixelHarmony

Word up. But I'm assuming they are saying if three proficient racers raced the cars. Personally I don't know much about the Euro R's, but I definately prefer the TSX's Interior to the Accords.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The Euro-R isn't quite as all out as the Type-R in terms of performance.

dom

Does the Euro R have a sunroof?

From what I understand "Type R" is reserved for cars that are strengthened at every weld, have their suspension stiffened (GS-R and Type R Integra's were night and day), make due without AC, Moonroof, and any sound deadening material and are always an MT.

I thought the Euro R was basically a lighter TSX with an RSX-S engine?

xizor

Well I don't know if the Euro-R specs could quality for a Type-R, but its not called a Type-R because the Type-R name was already used on a different Accord first. At least that's my understanding. I don't see a whole lot of reasons it can't be a Type-R realistically though since it shares the exact same engine as the JDM DC5 ITR.

Here's a review of the original Accord Type-R from the UK
link, with better pics

MSZ

The first ever Accord Type-R is based on the 5th gen Accord and it was designed for the European market. the top model for the Japanese market at that time was SiR(H22A 190hp engine). Honda Japan added their 4th R series to the 6th gen Accord lineup with a newly tuned H22A 220hp engine(shared with 5th gen JDM Prelude Type-S)and called it Euro-R to avoid any confusion.(It made sense since Euro-R was going to complete with 3-series)

The 7th gen Accord Euro-R shares DC5R/EP3R's K20A 220hp engine.

blackjackman

Euro-R

I wonder what the "R" stand for ? "Rattle" ?

7or8

Actually, Honda did named the 6th generation version Type-R not Euro-R. The Euro-R was never meant to be the same beast as the Type-R. This new Euro-R is closest to what we could basicly put into a Type-S category over here. Certainly not a hardcore Type-R. Hopefully they will eventually release a 7th Generation Type-R...probably JDM only though.

Here's a road test link of the 6th generation Type-R... http://www.tiscali.co.uk/motoring/ro.../story_27.html


Here's a link to some pics of it too....http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...494163701&rd=1

Belzebutt

How the heck do you convert that into hp and lb-ft?

What about Japan, don't they have a 200+ hp version?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The 200+ hp version of which you speak is the Euro-R.

As for the conversions, try a search online. I'm sure there is an online calculator.

MSZ

Your post is full of wrong informations.

1. Type-R is for the European market ONLY.
2. the 6th gen Euro-R is actually lighter and MORE powerful(220hp > 210hp)than the European Type-R, its sure not the same beast as the Type-R...
3. The new Euro-R is 40kg lighter than the JDM 24TL, which is our TSX...it also has 20 hp more than 24TL and TSX as well. Just to remind you the European Type-S actually has 10 less hp than both 24TL and TSX.
4. There won't be a JDM Accord Type-R, Euro-R is meant to be the 4th Type-R series in Japan.

You must be thinking that what I am saying is BS, read this official Accord press library first: http://www.honda.co.jp/pressroom/library/auto/ACCORD/

I bet you won't find a damn thing about the 6th or 7th gen Accord Type-R there.

7or8

I never said the Accord Type-R's weren't European only. I only speculated that the next one (if any) would be JDM only.

Power alone does not make a Type-R a Typer-R. Type-R's are made for there increased handling and track abilities and usually very stiff suspension.

Why is the TSX's suspension 5% stiffer than the Euro-R then? Tell me what Type-R has ever had a softer suspension than a different variant of the same car?

All of a sudden Honda drops the vaunted Type-R label and desides there gonna change the name of the Accord Type-R to Euro-R. What's next a Civic Euro-R and a Integra Euro-R?

I don't think the Euro-R is Honda's new Accord Type-R but just a Type-S like version of the Accord.

Here's a quote from Jeff over at TOV who's driven the Euro-R:

I would say the ITR would easily take the Euro R.

As you probably already know, the Euro R is not a full tilt Type R. As you'll see in Part II of my "Tochigi Dream Sequence" article, I drove all of the Type Rs (and a few other Hondas) back to back on the same circuit in Japan. The Euro R felt heavier and softer than the ITR. Of the entire bunch, the ITR was best suited for the circuit we were using - the NSX-R was too powerful for such a small track. The acceleration of the Euro R was quite good, but I would bet that it's at least a 1/2 second behind the ITR in the key acceleration marks.

Anyhow, I'm hoping Honda develops a true "Type R" version of the Accord. I'd specifically love to see an "R" trim version of the TSX's 2.4L motor, perhaps even a destroked 2.2L version to gain some revs back. I've seen it mentioned several times (Spoon Sports, Best Motoring) that the Accord has a better platform for building a true race car, with the full double wishbone setup being cited as a big part of that.

The Euro R's suspension felt very similar to the suspension in the base TSX here, which is generally more of a "sporty touring" setup - by no means is it "race ready". The Euro R gets far better tires than the TSX though, and grip was quite good.

Taken from ---http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...ge%5fid=208176

Also see --http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...&page_number=2


Yes your right about the 4th generation Type-R. I said 6th generation because it came out at the time the 6th generation Accord was out. I should have explained myself better.

MSZ

ok dude, I don't want to turn it into a fight here. This would be my last post in this thread.

I have read the Jeff's review before, even though I haven't drove an Euro-R before I can't agree with all of what he said there. Comparing an Accord-R to Integra-R is just wrong, I thought Integra is supposed to be faster than an Accord anyway.(Who is going to buy ITR if its slower than the Accord? Honda already made a mistake to put the same K20A engine into Civic Type-R) Can I say ITR is not a real Type-R because its slower than the NSX-R?

TSXs suspension is indeed 5% stiffer than the Euro-R, but the weight difference is still the huge adventage for the Euro-R(Its actually 60kg lighter than the JDM 24TL not 40. I made a mistake in my last post.), plus the shorter gear ratio for the 6MT, 220hp K20A, MOMO-made steering wheel, Rekaro bucket seats...etc. Euro-R sounds like a true Type-R to me.

And once again Honda Japan decided to name it Euro-R back in 1997 because they don't want the buyers to have ANY confusion. Since the Euro-R and the European spec Type-R aren't the same thing at all.

aaronng

The JDM Accord Euro actually has 147kW (197hp). It's the Aussie version that only has 190ps (188hp). Too bad we don't get your sweet TSX engine.... because we have 2 grades of Euro, Luxury with all the extras such as sunroof, leather, foglights and more and the Base model, with just velour seats. Mechanically, both cars are the same, but the base model weighs only 1390kg (3058 lbs) while the TSX weighs 1465kg (3230 lbs). So our Euro has the weight of the Euro R, but less power.... JDM Euro weighs 1420 kg for their lightest 2.4 litre model.

Power to weight ratios:
Euro R: 6.318 kg/hp
TSX: 7.325 kg/hp
AUS spec Euro: 7.394 kg/hp
JDM spec Euro: 7.208 kg/hp

So there you have it. The Euro R will be ahead of the 3 other cars, but the other 3 have very similar power to weight ratios, so it is a tough pick between the other 3.