fdl

Yes I am still obsessing about neutralsteer and oversteer

Anyone have experience with either using the handbrake vs left foot braking to control your backend in a turn? Is one better than the other and why?

LFB Seems like it would give me more control but I'm not sure. I want to be able to make large moves sometimes but also be able to make small corrections too. Any thoughts?

EDIT: Actually I just hought of another reason that LFB is better than handbrake...dont need to take your hand off the wheel.

P.S. I wanna have some fun this winter

Dan Martin

I can't see why you would want to do either, but if the rear of the car isn't rotating through the corner, just lift off the trottle. That will cause the weight to shift to the front and cause the rear to lose grip. If you want to whip the rear around rally style you're going to need the handbrake.

Left foot braking is totally pointless in manual car. However, it's definitely doable in an auto and it will actually give you better braking times.

fdl

Ya ..lift-off oversteer is ok..but i figured it wouldnt be as fast or as fun

Why do you say LFB is totally pointless in a MT car? I dont see how it would make a difference. (Unless you need to press the clutch).

EDIT: Actually..even if you need the clutch you should still be ok because only a blip of the brake is needed and then your left foot is free.

Dan Martin

The difference is that engine braking is much more pronounced on a MT car vs an AT. In the time that you lift your foot from the throttle in a MT car and put it onto the brake you have slowed down just as much as the AT car doing LFB. The difference between throttle lift in a MT car and LFB in an auto is negligible at best yet to mention the loss of feel you have with your left foot. I would not sacrifice pedal feel for the sake of a couple feet (at best) under braking. I bet you would lose more by missing the brake threshold than you would gain by LFB.

Try it for yourself on a wet parking lot sometime! Use the parking spots as a reference for your stopping distance.

fdl

I think you misunderstood what I meant by LFB. I dont mean to stop the car, ... I am speaking of the technique in which you hit the brake going into a turn (usually just a blip will do) while still on the gas, casuing the rear brakes to lock up slightly and the rear and to slide and rotate the car. So similar to using the handbrake but seemingly with more control (they use both in rally racing I believe). In theory ... you should be able to add oversteer or understeer at will by giving more or less brake.

Dan Martin

Oh, well I guess LFB is fine for that but I still think throttle lift will do it for you though. Try to do all of your braking before the corner and accelerate at the apex. If you are starting to understeer under throttle just lift for a split second (smoothly) and that rear end should come out with no problem at all.

The hand brake will definitely not give you enough control for this type of manuver though. You'll spin the car like a top!

TSXautoXer

okay FDL, I think you'll like this:

To kick the tail out on a FWD or AWD car.

Upon entering a corner:
1. Turn the wrong way.
2. Turn the right way and lift off throttle at the same time.
3. Apply throttle.

This will work 100%. On dry surface, just carry more speed for it to work. You can also apply some brake (don't need to be LFB) on step 2 to make the weight shift more pronounced. Also, play around with tire pressure. You can try to put higher pressure at the rears to reduce traction.

I don't know how experienced a driver are you, so be careful. The center of gravity on TSX is relatively high. If you over shot and the tail the coming around, don't try too hard to save. You have 3 chances to save. If you still can't recover on the third time, let the car spin or it will roll over. So try at your own risk.

fdl

Roll-over??? Really? I figure it takes alot to roll a car. Is the TSX alot worse for this?

I waiting for the saftey ratings to come out, because they usually give a roll over rating now too.

chrisalberts

Except that the big difference is that LFB brakes all four wheels while the handbrake works only on the back wheels (which is what you want).

Of course, you'll stretch your handbrake cable doing this, plus unless you're on a low friction surface it won't be incredible effective.

I only do this (occasionally) on snowy or wet and smooth parking lots just for kicks. I wouldn't do it on a regular dry road at speed.

Don't take this the wrong way, fdl, but it sounds like you might have been better off getting a powerful rear wheel drive car than a moderately powerful fwd car if you like antics like this. With rwd you can get the back end out just from the accelerator. It's more predictable for public roads too.

C. <-- has a powerful rwd car

PS If you plan to LFB make sure you practice plenty first. The trained instinct with your left foot when driving is to push it to the ground and it takes a while to be able to LFB progressively without sending you and your passengers flying towards the windshield. It's also easiest to practice in an automatic. The rally drivers who LFB to kick the tail out in corners are usually shifting without the clutch, btw.

TSXautoXer

Well, no, TSX is not better or worse. Just be careful. The 3 times rule stands for FWD cars, not RWDs'. And if you're driving on snow or ice, this rule may not stand, but still is a good reference. On dry road, when you're trying to recover from a spin, on the third time, the center of gravity will be thrown way too far out from the car and it will roll the car over. This may not be true for a really sporty FWD car(i.e. Integra Type-R). Also it really depends on speed, tire traction, etc. However, keep the rule in mind, and keep a cool head.

fdl

Ya..I prefer RWD to FWD in most conditions for sure. I've owned RWD before and its alot of fun. But I need fwd for the winters here, and plus my decision to buy the TSX went far beyond just fwd vs rwd.

But just because I have a fwd car doesnt mean I cant have a little fun

TSXautoXer

A beat up miata is all that you need. :P

I'm for light weight adequate powered RWD car. (Lotus Elise!!!)

Dan Martin

Hey TSXautoXer,

Just curious, do you run the TSX in autox? If so what group do you usually run in?

vwong

fdl, please don't tell me that you're gonna try that on the streets! If anyone has the urge to drive fast on the twisty, why not start looking into autox? It's a lot safer. You don't have to worry about other motorists on the road, running off the cliff, or slamming into the guard rail. Also you don't have to worry about damaging the car. Go on to SCCA's website and search for a region near you. http://www.scca.org

fdl

Ya vwong...if you see a silver TSX drifting on the highway....thats me

vwong

Good thing I'm not in Toronto.

TSXautoXer

Yes I autox regularly. Usually, I run in G-stock, but only with street tires. I am looking into getting a spare set of rims to put R-compound tires next year after the winter. Oh, this weekend will be the second time I run with TSX. Last time didn't turn out too good...mainly the brakes...expect too much

I used to drive an euro spec e36 320i and autox it (not in US), and love that car (albeit under powered)

TSXautoXer