i was just getting on this long two lane on ramp when i saw a kid in a hooked up GTI, had a exhaust and full body kit with CF so i am assuming he had more mods, riding my ass...i see him moving into the next lane to pass me when i decide to have some fun....

we are going about 40mph and i just downshift to 3rd and hit it...once i hit 4500 rpm or so i started walkin away from him then i threw it into 4th just before i hit 5500rpm and just continued to walk away...(i was shifting early cause i am at the end of my break in, 800 miles so now i am limiting to about 5500 rpm) anyways it was fun walkin away from him, also when i hit the turn took it faster than him...

anyways the TSX is sick and yet again proves my theory VW's are :ghey:

 

Sounds like this guy in the GTi wasn't even racing you.

 

GTI > TSX

 

not the greatest kill, but i'll agree that vw's are :ghey:, sorry Dan

 

It depends what engine was in the GTI as the early models either came with 2.0L or VR6. The 2.0L has only 115HP and 123lb-ft torqe. The VR6 should be a bit faster than the TSX stock to stock and the TSX should be no match with the 1.8t.

Gary

 

:whocares:

 

Nah, it's all good. I don't have a VW any more.


The GTI weighs 220lbs less than the TSX and with equal HP it should walk all over our car.

 

:gheywave:

 

I totally agree with this statement. I had a MK4 GTI 1.8T (chipped) and that car was much faster than my current TSX. I miss the power of my old car, but it does not even compare to the TSX with everything else.

 

It's not a matter of how fast the other car really was, but rather that it doesn't sound like the other driver was trying very hard.

 

Especially since you're shifting at 5500.

 

oh well, maybe i thought he was goin, i must have just been caught up in the excitement of getting to kill my first VW with this car...my bad then...

anyways wouldnt the tsx take on a 1.8t or vr6 from 40-70mph? yeah those guys are quick but the tsx does seem to have a lot of pull once you are revin along....also which do you think would handle better if both have stock suspension setups?

 

TSX far outhandles the GTi on stock suspension. The GTi suspension is quite soft and underdamped.

 

To me a TSX can run with a GTI with a modified suspension. I had Bilstein shocks and eibach springs on my old ride. The two setups feel very comparable with each other.

 

isnt the stock suspension on the TSX a coilover setup, doesnt it just have the bigger springs because most people dont want the reduced ground clearance?

 

shift at 5500rpm? no sir. not a race at all.

sorry not a kill, just another tsx owner wasting gas, but not wasting enough

 

yes, in the sense that is has a spring with a shock inside. the TSX has a double wishbone suspension, which one of the best setups. here is an awesome link about suspensions. Very interesting read after installing my springs, to know what I was actually looking at.

 

I testdrove a TSX a few weeks ago, love the handling compared to my GTI which I'm looking to trade-in for a TSX. I see alot of TSX owners who used to own a VW as well.

I have Bilstein PSS9 coilovers on my GTI, handling is good, but still missing a bit due to the design or the rear suspension which is a trail-beam design.

Gary

 

Doubt the GTI was "racing" you.

The GTI 1.8T is fast stock, the 200 hp VR6 is faster stock.
Both faster than the TSX stock.

If he was modded on top of that, you wouldn't of had a chance if he was trying, especially short shifting at 5500 before the TSX even reaches peak power.

 

Have you driven the GTI 1.8T?

The car may feel soft, but it handles quite well.

Consider...Car and Driver tested on and got .86 g on their skidpad and went through the slalom at 72.4 mph.

Motor Trend got the GTI 1.8T through their slalom at 65.6 mph

That's faster than either has gotten with the TSX.

C & D also posted better skidpad numbers with the GTI 1.8T than they did the RSX Type S
And MotorTrend also posted faster slalom times with the GTI 1.8T than it did the RSX Type S.
MotorTrend slalom time with the "soft" GTI 1.8T was only .4 mph slower than the Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V they tested it against on the same day.

It might "feel" soft, but it sticks pretty nice, and considering the GTI 1.8T was the only one with "H" speed rated all season tires too.

I've driven the GTI 1.8T pretty extensively, it does feel soft and it's body rolls quite a bit, but that little bugger holds on scoots too!

 

I think that the GTi is soft and undampened. It's a fun little car but handling is something that the GTi is not really known for. Trust me on this one since I've owned a 1.8T GTi for 4 years prior to my TSX. The very first mod I did was to upgrade the stock suspension on the ol' vw.

 

I owned the GTI 1.8T as well.
True it's suspension is soft, but as I stated, it still stuck to the road quite well.
The TSX feels like it handles better too, but from test numbers that also may very well just be "feel" and not actual results.
Even the testers of the GTI that complained about the soft suspension and body roll admitted still that the thing stuck pretty well even if your leaning and bucking a bit while doing so.
It was the same for the Spec V - when I drove it, it felt like a much better handling car, but I was surprised that it's test results didn't show it was that much better.

Even with the crappy "H" rated all season tires the GTI 1.8T also braked only one foot shorter than the Spec V and only 4 feet shorter than the SVT Focus...both lighter cars with "W" and "Z" rated ultra sport summer tires.

It was a fun car just again, usually the people bashing it's handling haven't even driven the thing and are going off of the comments of the magazines when they say it's "soft"

The magazines, especially Car and Driver and their "scoring" are so skewed and wrong it's pathetically misleading.
In C & D's test of the GTI 1.8T (vs. the SVT Focus and Honda Civic Si)
In handling they gave the Civic Si and 8 out of 10
But gave the GTI 1.8T only a 7 out of 10.

Yet, on the skidpad the GTI 1.8T got .86 g's the Civic Si got .84 g
In the Emergency Lane change the GTI did it at 72.4 mph the Civic Si only 69.4
On the Racetrack the GTI did it in 1:23.58 at 52.5 mph the Civic Si took 1:26.14 at only 51.0 mph average.

So in EVERY test of handling, the GTI 1.8T beat the Civic Si yet Car and Driver give the Civic Si higher scores in "Handling"
Maybe they mean "Handling FEEL"

But like I've said when comparing the TSX to LGT, "feel" is one thing, actual results are quite another. And for Car and Driver to skew these by giving a car that performed worse higher scores is inexplicable...well unless you believe their often claimed bias to certain cars (Honda and BMW).

Heck even in the "Engine" category C & D gave the Civic Si the same score as the GTI 1.8T
Though the GTI 1.8T whips the Civic Si in any power category, and the 1.8T was raved by many as being the smoothest turbocharged 4 cylinder on the market. Again, apparently they score on "feel" and maybe "sound" rather than actual performance, again supported by the fact they gave the SVT Focus engine a lower score than the Civic Si, even though it's also faster by a hair.

Further evidence of C & D's Honda bias and bogus scoring system, comes on the "braking" scores.
Where they give the SVT Focus a 10, the GTI 1.8T an 8 and the Civic SI a 7 out of 10.
Yet, in the braking department from 70-0 the
SVT Focus did it in 170 feet
GTI 1.8T in 177 feet
Civic Si in 204 feet!!!! Yet it only gets on point less than the GTI. That's horrible. But they must of felt that the brake pedal "FELT" nice!

Another reason I've challenged the people bashing the Legacy GT to actually drive it, rather than go off of Car and Driver's WELL DOCUMENTED bogus and bias scoring system!

Sorry to go off, I just really like the GTI. I wish VW would not have moved their assembly plants out of Germany, after that their reliability dropped. I also wish they would of brought us the MK-V version with the 2.0T for 2005. That would of been a hot little car.

 

You make very valid points and I could say that I would own another GTi if the ol pocket books can say I can afford one. They are great little project cars. I would have to disagree with the statement that German manufactured equates to improved reliability. My 2000 GTI was made and assembled in Germany, yet I've had engine problems left right and center. In comparison, my friend bought a Brazilian assembled GTi and he's had no problems with his car to date. I think it's more of the company's culture that infleuences quality. Volkswagen is more concerned with getting it out cheaply than getting it right. Their P & L statements has a very high accrual for warranty allowances.

 

Hmmm, most of the people I knew that had any problems with their VW's were mostly the ones made in Mexico (Jetta and New Beetle).
My German made one was pretty much faultless in 34K miles of pretty hard driving.
My friend's Brazilian made 2002 was pretty darn reliable too.
I have a friend with an Audi A4 3.0 Q and he's got over 40K hard miles on it without a problem either and he takes the thing on pretty rough dirt roads from time to time too (camping).

I know two people with German built Passat 1.8T's that have been free of faults too.

But I know 2 people with Jettas and one with the New Beetle, both made in Mexico, both plagued with problems of all kinds. And from the reports I've seen these are the two with the most issues.
I don't think it's any coincidence personally.

The problem with VW is often they are too little too late.
The R32 is a perfect example. That car was sold in Europe 2 years ago, why did they wait here.
The MK-V Golf/GTI have now been in Europe for the past year, yet we have to wait another year for it. Why?

VW is working on an R36 based on the MK-V platform and a 3.6 liter VR6 said to make "at least" 260 hp with the Quattro. Hello? Killer car, bring here ASAP. But we'll probably get it in 2007!

Not only do they need to start paying a bit more attention to quality control, but get rid of their current marketing "brains" and hire new personnel.

The 200hp and 207 ft-lbs of torque 2.0T in the 2006 GTI will be nice, but I'm afraid by then it won't quite be enough. Though I'd predict low 6's to 60 and high 14's in the 1/4 mile. We'll see.
I still have a bit of a soft spot for VW.

 

That's all?

 

The GTI handles like a wheel barrow.

 

yeah, you've probably never driven one of them either huh?

 

Neither of us keeps cars for very long.

At 32, I've owned dozens of cars.
And as a former driver for TV commercials I've driven hundreds and hundreds of cars pretty darn hard.

The 34K miles I put on the GTI was the most miles I've ever put on any one car.

 

And that's fine, but you can't turn around and declare those cars pillars of reliability.

 

Actually I have, many times. If thats what you consider good handling, then alot of things are starting to make sense to me now.

 

That's odd...you've driven many cars during your professional driving days and you've owned dozens of cars...yet you find that the GTi is the best handling car you've driven?



Like I said...the suspension of that GTi is the first mod I did. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

 

My German Passat (1999) was pretty much faultless in almost 5 years of moderately hard driving. Nice V6 engine. Torquey but not too fast off the line. Very smooth, though. It tests about the same as the TSX, 0-60. Add me to the list of peeps trading from a VW to a TSX. VW's have simply gotten too expensive when attractively optioned.

Passat handling was quite similar to the TSX. A bit Softer, though, except at the suspension limits. Basically nothing to write home about.

 

Guys, I've never said the GTI was the best handling car I've driven.
I starting to feel like all to often a few of you like to put words into people's mouths.
Further a few of you seem to have a difficult time comprehending what people write, and just draw your own comclusions on what you seem to read.

I said, the GTI handles better than people give it credit for.
I has scored equal if not better results in tests than cars most feel are good handlers.
The GTI has produced better numbers on the skidpad and slalom than the TSX, or even the RSX Type S.
Do the TSX and RSX "feel" like they handle better? Yes.
But here's that feel thing again.
A car can feel tight and feel like it's handling compentently, but if it's not producing the numbers it's irrelevant.
The GTI feels a bit soft, it's body rolls a bit. But it can be pushed pretty hard and produce good numbers in handling at the same time.

There are many cars that handle better, if you actually take the time to read what I said, and instead of just drawing your own conclusions, actually comprehend, you'd see that nowhere did I say the GTI was the best handling car I've ever driven.


And Clutch...true those cars weren't pillars of reliability...again, I said I had no problems with mine, but I also clearly stated that many others have.

fdl, how did you ever become a moderator? Your kinda of a sarcastic tool you know?
Grow up...if your experience in cardom is moderating a website of a car you seem WAY overly biased about...things are making much more sense to many now.
Rest assured, I could take a stock GTI 1.8T and you could take your stock TSX, and I'd run circles around you. Not necessarily because of the car, but because of the driver! Anytime you choose. I have a friend in Toronto that I've been thinking of visiting soon, maybe I'll look you up and see if you can walk the walk in your car, or if you are just the big talker that I'm (and others) probably know you are. Unlike you, I've never declared any one car bad or worthless...you obviously feel the TSX is the greatest car made and all else is trash. Can you say anything good about any other car? Or do you have stock in Acura or something? The TSX is a very nice car, but it ain't the holy grail. Maybe someday when you drive a few more cars, you'll realize that there are a lot of great cars out there.

 

I'd agree. Again, nice to see an unbiased honest opinion.
I do think the TSX handles better though.
But in fairness, the Passat is by no means intended to be an "sport" or even "sporty" sedan. It's more like a Honda Accord EX V6 in it's intent.

 

 

 

hey...I've owned a few dubs in my lifetime. What I wrote is my bad. It's just a misinterpretation on my part.

That's the problem with the internet. Too much interpretation, too many people jumping to conclusions.

 

I have indeed driven the GTi and quite hard. All the numbers in the world mean nothing if you don't feel confident throwing it into a corner. For most cars, I can get in and drive it to 9/10ths. When I did that in the GTi, it was downright scary with the amount of body roll. It would take several drives in the GTi to get comfortable with the body roll and suspension softness.

From your posts, I gather that you've driven the GTi extensively and I don't question that it is a decent car, but for pure confidence behind the wheel, I'll take the TSX any day.

And those were not H-rated tires that were on the GTi in those tests, but rather V-rated tires, just like the ones on the TSX. The high numbers you mentioned are viable, but the TSX has posted even higher numbers before. There is no questioning that both are decent cars, but I still stand by my assertion that the TSX outhandles the GTi. Put the same drive in both cars and the TSX will more likely than not come out faster around a road course.

 

See my responses (bolded) below.




Anyway, I don't want to make a soap opera out of this. Later.

 

I am very opinionated and I love a good debate. Just because I am a moderator doesnt mean I'm not also a member who can express an opinion or debate a topic.




It seems I am really getting under your skin.

No I am not biased, - in fact I have been quick to put other cars ahead of the TSX (or even straight out bash the TSX in certainareas) when I feel its justified. (try a search before you pretend to know me). You see, it just bugs me a bit to see someone talking out of their @$$ and pretending to know everything when in fact they dont.

You say you are a professional driver and have 30 years of experience .. blah blah blah. yet ...

- you laugh at the notion of the TSX causing torque steer because of its low torque, when in fact any car can produce torque steer with aggressive enough gearing.

- you use the skidpad result of one car to compare against the results of another car from a different test, in different conditions, possibly even in a different location.

- you quickly declare one car a better "performance" and "enthusiast" car simply because its got better 0-60 times.

- you rave about the handling of a GTI :gheylaugh:

I could go on but you get my point.

I'm not saying your an idiot, but you are no better off then any other joe blow member on here and your opinions are as useful and flawed as anyone elses (including mine).

I for one think you are full of crap in most of what you say. Thats my opinion, so please try and deal with it.

And no I am not going to race you. Grow up, its just an internet forum ..lol.