warped rotors??????
09-02-2004 | 09:07 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,644
Likes: 312
From: The Woodlands, TX
warped rotors??????
My steering shakes when I apply my brakes while turning the wheel - hwy speed with slight curves in road. The wheel will not shake while applying while going straight. Is this normal?
09-02-2004 | 09:11 AM
#2
Senior Moderator
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 47,710
Likes: 801
From: Toronto, Canada
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...=Warped+rotors
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...=Warped+rotors
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...=Warped+rotors
Seems to be a common problem, I had mine replaced at 30,000km and I think the problem is coming back. I was experiencing the same symptoms as you BTW.
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...=Warped+rotors
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...=Warped+rotors
Seems to be a common problem, I had mine replaced at 30,000km and I think the problem is coming back. I was experiencing the same symptoms as you BTW.
09-02-2004 | 08:56 PM
#3
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Hi -
I'm sort of new to the forum but have been lurking for quite some time. I also had warped rotors. I mentioned this to the dealer service and they quickly quoted $500 plus to service the brakes. Since I had more than 20k miles it was not covered under warranty. I had all the rotors resurfaced by my local mechanic but warping returned. My mechanic told me once a rotor is warped and resurfsced it is common for the rotor to warp again. I've since replaced all rotors with drilled & slotted rotors.
I'm sort of new to the forum but have been lurking for quite some time. I also had warped rotors. I mentioned this to the dealer service and they quickly quoted $500 plus to service the brakes. Since I had more than 20k miles it was not covered under warranty. I had all the rotors resurfaced by my local mechanic but warping returned. My mechanic told me once a rotor is warped and resurfsced it is common for the rotor to warp again. I've since replaced all rotors with drilled & slotted rotors.
09-06-2004 | 05:44 PM
#4
10th Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
20,000 Kms (or 12,000 miles) on my TSX and I too have this tiny "werble" when I touch the brakes at hi-way speed. My Neon did it, my Eagle Vision did, Ford Escape, Caravan, Pathfinder. . .
My uneducated opinion is that two factors have contributed to this situation occurring: 1/ Manufactureres are trying to shave (literally in this case) what ever costs they can and this area suffers (the ride, not stopping power) and 2/ we think our modern cars are supposed to be able to come to a stop in the times/distances noted in the specs (and the rag's test drives we read) and we push them way harder - like race cars sometimes - than we used to, or our parents would have 20 years ago, thus exposing them to greater hardships and thereby requiring more attention. My 72 Cuda never warped a rotor, then again the rotor probably weighed as much as the rotor + wheel + tire on my TSX! buuuut, that car kinda ate tires
I have been told by various dealerships for years, it exists live with it or pay us
. Although now I will try the resurfacing game with them.
I'd be curious to hear from forum members who have other cars (not TSXes) that do this.
My uneducated opinion is that two factors have contributed to this situation occurring: 1/ Manufactureres are trying to shave (literally in this case) what ever costs they can and this area suffers (the ride, not stopping power) and 2/ we think our modern cars are supposed to be able to come to a stop in the times/distances noted in the specs (and the rag's test drives we read) and we push them way harder - like race cars sometimes - than we used to, or our parents would have 20 years ago, thus exposing them to greater hardships and thereby requiring more attention. My 72 Cuda never warped a rotor, then again the rotor probably weighed as much as the rotor + wheel + tire on my TSX! buuuut, that car kinda ate tires
I have been told by various dealerships for years, it exists live with it or pay us
. Although now I will try the resurfacing game with them.I'd be curious to hear from forum members who have other cars (not TSXes) that do this.
09-06-2004 | 06:27 PM
#5
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
I've owned an Integra (110k+ miles), Camry (100k+ miles), Chrysler mini-van (109k+ miles), and this TSX and I've only experienced this warped disk problem in the TSX.
I have relatives who've owned Maximas, Volvo S40s & S60s, CRVs and they've never had this problem in only 12 months of ownership.
I have relatives who've owned Maximas, Volvo S40s & S60s, CRVs and they've never had this problem in only 12 months of ownership.
09-08-2004 | 01:27 AM
#7
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
From: South Jersey
This is my 3rd car, and 2nd car with warped rotors. The other didn't warp at 17k miles though 
If my dealer argues turning/replacing under warranty, I'll be shopping for a new dealer.
If my dealer argues turning/replacing under warranty, I'll be shopping for a new dealer.
Trending Topics
09-08-2004 | 02:33 PM
#8
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Maybe NOT Warped Rotors
Originally Posted by miner
My steering shakes when I apply my brakes while turning the wheel - hwy speed with slight curves in road. The wheel will not shake while applying while going straight. Is this normal?
There's an excellent article on "warped rotors" on this braking system company's website written by the late Carroll Smith who is a highly regarded authority on high performance and racing car technology.
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm
The article is well worth reading, and contains an explanation and a remedy for the symptoms you describe (I've had them myself in most of my cars over the last ten years).
The short summary of the article is that the vibration you are feeling is caused by pad material that has built up on the rotors and caused high or hard spots. You may also feel the brakes grabbing ever so slightly if you are braking lightly just as you come to a stop as a result of this buildup. They can be avoided by bedding in the new brakes and pads (which is NOT described in your owners manual).
YMMV, but go have a look.
09-08-2004 | 02:49 PM
#9
Photography Nerd
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 21,489
Likes: 11
From: Toronto
Originally Posted by Ellswrth
While the symptoms you describe are real, the cause may NOT be the rotor warping per se.
There's an excellent article on "warped rotors" on this braking system company's website written by the late Carroll Smith who is a highly regarded authority on high performance and racing car technology.
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm
The article is well worth reading, and contains an explanation and a remedy for the symptoms you describe (I've had them myself in most of my cars over the last ten years).
The short summary of the article is that the vibration you are feeling is caused by pad material that has built up on the rotors and caused high or hard spots. You may also feel the brakes grabbing ever so slightly if you are braking lightly just as you come to a stop as a result of this buildup. They can be avoided by bedding in the new brakes and pads (which is NOT described in your owners manual).
YMMV, but go have a look.
There's an excellent article on "warped rotors" on this braking system company's website written by the late Carroll Smith who is a highly regarded authority on high performance and racing car technology.
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...otors_myth.htm
The article is well worth reading, and contains an explanation and a remedy for the symptoms you describe (I've had them myself in most of my cars over the last ten years).
The short summary of the article is that the vibration you are feeling is caused by pad material that has built up on the rotors and caused high or hard spots. You may also feel the brakes grabbing ever so slightly if you are braking lightly just as you come to a stop as a result of this buildup. They can be avoided by bedding in the new brakes and pads (which is NOT described in your owners manual).
YMMV, but go have a look.
I've given up on trying to dispel the warped rotors myth since this topic comes up so much. The last post I had on the subject was this:
Originally Posted by me
Let's clear a couple things up with regards to "warped" rotors.
Firstly, it is extremely unlikely that the cast iron rotors are actually distorted as a result of heat. 99.999% of the time, brake pulsation (known as DTV) is caused by a build up of brake pad material on the surface of the rotor. When you brake, some brake pad material will be transferred to the surface of the rotor at the impact point when the pads touch the rotor. This is completely unavoidable and is generally nothing to worry about. If you were to consistently apply the brakes with the pads touching the rotors at the same spot every time you would eventually build up enough material to cause you to sense a vibration under braking. It doesn't take much, just 0.0005" to 0.001" of material build-up can be felt.
Statistically it's next to impossible to brake with the pads in the same position on the rotor every time so there is something else causing the build-up of material. Lateral run out of the rotor is the main cause of the pad material build-up. Wheel bearings naturally get distorted from driving on city streets (hitting potholes, heavy cornering, cracked roads, etc.) and when these wear unevenly the whole rotor assembly will be out of alignment (high lateral run out). When the rotor is out of alignment, the pads will impact the highest spot on the rotor every time causing the transfer of pad material in the same location for every stop. An out of balance wheel is also a good source of lateral run out in a brake system.
If you are experiencing brake pulsation on a regular basis, pad deposits are the symptom of a bigger problem.
Firstly, it is extremely unlikely that the cast iron rotors are actually distorted as a result of heat. 99.999% of the time, brake pulsation (known as DTV) is caused by a build up of brake pad material on the surface of the rotor. When you brake, some brake pad material will be transferred to the surface of the rotor at the impact point when the pads touch the rotor. This is completely unavoidable and is generally nothing to worry about. If you were to consistently apply the brakes with the pads touching the rotors at the same spot every time you would eventually build up enough material to cause you to sense a vibration under braking. It doesn't take much, just 0.0005" to 0.001" of material build-up can be felt.
Statistically it's next to impossible to brake with the pads in the same position on the rotor every time so there is something else causing the build-up of material. Lateral run out of the rotor is the main cause of the pad material build-up. Wheel bearings naturally get distorted from driving on city streets (hitting potholes, heavy cornering, cracked roads, etc.) and when these wear unevenly the whole rotor assembly will be out of alignment (high lateral run out). When the rotor is out of alignment, the pads will impact the highest spot on the rotor every time causing the transfer of pad material in the same location for every stop. An out of balance wheel is also a good source of lateral run out in a brake system.
If you are experiencing brake pulsation on a regular basis, pad deposits are the symptom of a bigger problem.
09-09-2004 | 07:59 AM
#11
10th Gear
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: Ontario, Canada
AH HA! finally an educated opinion and perspective (as opposed to mine and others' drivel) And one that makes sense. 
Mr. Martin I bow to you
thank you for slapping us all around a bit. Or would that be shooting at us . . hell who cares.
Seriously, I think anyone reading this post is probably enlightened. One last Q - this process you mention, " bedding" is it something I can do when a new car is received, new pads put on, or rotors resurfaced? And what is it exactly?
Mr. Martin I bow to you
thank you for slapping us all around a bit. Or would that be shooting at us . . hell who cares.Seriously, I think anyone reading this post is probably enlightened. One last Q - this process you mention, " bedding" is it something I can do when a new car is received, new pads put on, or rotors resurfaced? And what is it exactly?
09-09-2004 | 09:14 AM
#12
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by genTSXer
One last Q - this process you mention, " bedding" is it something I can do when a new car is received, new pads put on, or rotors resurfaced? And what is it exactly?
From the article;
PREVENTION
There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.
In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7
to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded.
For a race pad, typically four 80mph to 5 and two 100mph to 5, depending on the pad, will also be necessary to raise the system temperatures during break-in to the range that the pad material was designed to operate at. Hence, the higher temperature material can establish its layer completely and uniformly on the disc surface.
Fortunately the procedure is also good for the discs and will relieve any residual thermal stresses left over from the casting process (all discs should be thermally stress relieved as one of the last manufacturing processes) and will transfer the smooth layer of pad material onto the disc. If possible, new discs should be bedded with used pads of the same compound that will be used going forward. Again, heat should be put into the system gradually - increasingly hard stops with cool off time in between. Part of the idea is to avoid prolonged contact between pad and disc. With abrasive pads (which should not be used on high performance cars) the disc can be considered bedded when the friction surfaces have attained an even blue color. With the carbon metallic type pads, bedding is complete when the friction surfaces of the disc are a consistent gray or black. In any case, the discoloration of a completely broken in disc will be complete and uniform.
Depending upon the friction compound, easy use of the brakes for an extended period may lead to the removal of the transfer layer on the discs by the abrasive action of the pads. When we are going to exercise a car that has seen easy brake use for a while, a partial re-bedding process will prevent uneven pick up.
The driver can feel a 0.0004" deposit or TV on the disc. 0.001" is annoying. More than that becomes a real pain. When deposit are present, by having isolated regions that are proud of the surface and running much hotter than their neighbors, cementite inevitably forms and the local wear characteristics change which results in ever increasing TV and roughness.
Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry.
The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.
The only fix for extensive uneven deposits involves dismounting the discs and having them Blanchard ground - not expensive, but inconvenient at best. A newly ground disc will require the same sort of bedding in process as a new disc. The trouble with this procedure is that if the grinding does not remove all of the cementite inclusions, as the disc wears the hard cementite will stand proud of the relatively soft disc and the thermal spiral starts over again. Unfortunately, the cementite is invisible to the naked eye.
Taking time to properly bed your braking system pays big dividends but, as with most sins, a repeat of the behavior that caused the trouble will bring it right back.
There you have it.
09-12-2004 | 05:46 PM
#13
Cruisin'
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, CA
Originally Posted by genTSXer
I'd be curious to hear from forum members who have other cars (not TSXes) that do this.
It seems to be by manufacturer who warps and who doesn't, Nissans and Fords are famous for warping. The following have been my experiences with warped rotors:
Nissan Pathfinder - need to resurface a lot, at least every 20,000 miles
Lexus SC400 - NEVER had to resurface, these were beefy disc brakes
Cadillac Seville - resurfaced every 40,000 miles
Mercury Sable - could never get the problem to go away, I'd resurface and 50 miles later the problem would be back (this was the WORST car in general I have ever owned).
Toyota MR2 - never had a problem, but it was a light car.
09-12-2004 | 05:51 PM
#14
Advanced
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: The Great NW
Originally Posted by PacNWtsx
Mine warped at 10K the dealership turned the rotors....
this is somewhat concerning that so many of us are haveing the same issue.
09-13-2004 | 01:27 PM
#16
Registered AssHat
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,777
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
I've had a 1990, 1997, 1999 Honda Accord, and a 2004 Acura TSX.
You know what...I've never had warped rotors. WTF are you guys doing? Hell I was hard on brakes all the time in my TSX. Nice and smelly (120-5mph braking) nearly every other night. No issues.
You know what...I've never had warped rotors. WTF are you guys doing? Hell I was hard on brakes all the time in my TSX. Nice and smelly (120-5mph braking) nearly every other night. No issues.
09-13-2004 | 05:26 PM
#17
Advanced
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: The Great NW
I am easy on the brakes, ask anyone who has ridden with me.... I am not sure why unless some spray hit them, or a bad rotor.
Evidence. 50,000 miles on the Type S and only then was in need of new pads, yes still on the original brake pads.
Evidence. 50,000 miles on the Type S and only then was in need of new pads, yes still on the original brake pads.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rp_guy
Member Cars for Sale
9
07-16-2017 07:33 AM
08_UA7_Gr33k
Member Cars for Sale
13
02-11-2016 02:17 PM
lanechanger
Member Cars for Sale
4
10-13-2015 10:56 AM
08_UA7_Gr33k
Member Cars for Sale
1
09-27-2015 01:56 PM
