Hi,

For the past few months I have been having alignment issues in my new TSX that are finally starting to get resolved. I thought I would share my experience with you guys, in case you have any suggestions.

I purchased and received my TSX back in early January. Immediately after pickup, I noticed that the alignment in the car was off. I took it back to the Acura dealer the following day. They took it for a test spin, said that the tire pressures were off, and gave it back to me.

After driving it a few more weeks, I decided that the alignment was STILL off. I took it back to the dealer and they spent some time working on the alignment. At the end of the day, they said that they had improved the alignment, but that until they received their new laser alignment equipment they wouldn't be able to get my alignment completely right. They cordially asked me to bring the car back in a few weeks after they got their new equipment and that they would take care of the alignment then. Driving the car afterwards it felt MUCH better, but not perfect.

Last week, I brought the car back in to get the alignment done with their new equipment. After two hours of trying to get the alignment right, they said that that they had the castor and toe right, but that the camber was still a little off. They believed the problem was a non-visible one with the control arm, and they had ordered to part to install the next day.

Thursday they installed the control arm, but with no luck. The next step was to replace the knuckle. On Friday they replaced the knuckle, but the camber is still not right. Now they have an order in for a new sub-frame which won't arrive until Wednesday, but we're hoping will fix the problem. They think the damage may have occurred when the car was being transported.

Through the whole process, the Acura service folks have been extremely cordial and helpful. They've got me in a 2003 TL loaner (which is not all that great), but I'm hoping to get my TSX back soon.

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions?

Thanks,
PB

 

ARBITRATE

NO BACK TALK FROM YOU

 

Actually, as I mentioned, I've been very happy with the level of service I'm receiving from Acura. They are extremely helpful and are diligently trying to resolve the problem. So, no need to need to arbitrate anything.

I am, however, a little disappointed that I picked up the car defective to start off with.

 

Sounds like the problem was not the dealers doing and even if it was there doing the due dilegence to resolve the problem while at the same time treating you well. Too bad everyone can't have the same type of service at their local Acura dealer.

 

Sounds like they are doing everything they can and I'm glad that they're treating you the way they should. One wonders though, why don't they just get an aftermarket camber kit to get everything aligned? It might cost them a couple hundred bucks but I'm sure they're in farther than that already.

 

sounds like they're doing the best they can but how can they not align the car? my alignment was off upon delivery but they were able to realign it right away...

 

I think the reason they can't align the car is because some part is actually damaged/bent. They can't visually tell which part it is, but as a result, they can't get the alignment right. It looks like they'll have my car for at least a couple of more days.

I'm getting sick of driving around in an '03 TL. Do other dealers have '04 TLs for loaners?

 

Could be worse. My dealer gave me a F-150 pickup as a loaner for a day.

 

We get EL's as loaners.

 

I got a craptacular Ford Focus from Enterprise Rent-a-car as a loaner.

Luckily, the dealership called me and left a message on my phone saying that if I wasn't completely satisfied with the service, to call them. So I'm gonna call and complain about how I didn't get a proper loaner.

 

Wow, it sounds like I should be happy with my TL.

What's the law with respect to receiving a defective car? I'm starting to worry about all the work that is going into my car and whether or not it's affecting the integrity of the structure, etc. I don't know what a subframe is, but it sounds like a pretty fundamental component. I bought this car new three months ago - it's not my fault it's defective. Should I just accept the work they're doing or should I ask for something more (like a new car)?

 

if the dealer is being nice to you and you don't want to arbitrate... then shut the hell up and deal with your messed up car.

if you want to get your car fixed... call up your service manager and tell him you want to know how to initiate arbitration proceedings. if they can't get it fixed for one last time... send notice to Acura USA in the arbitration address listed in the manual...

then contact the BBB and begin Acura-approved arbitration... maybe get a new car... but at least get your problem fixed.

 

Wish we get EL's as loaners here, but instead the dealer gives out abused rattling RSXs and TLs. However, they would only give you a loaner if your car stays with the dealer for more than a day. Other than that, your on your own (wait in the waiting room or use their courtesy shuttle to goto where you need to go).

 

If they were really resourcefull, they would get the blueprints for the knuckle, control arms and subframe in order to determine which part is out of spec instead of wasting there time and yours.
your car should be good as new when done provided the tech is experienced in what he is doing...hang in there

 

Thanks for the reassurement, Champ.

The Acura dealership has been extremely courteous throughout the whole process. They have honestly gone above and beyond the call of duty in resolving this problem.

 

what's up with this alignment stuff. I've been having a few issues as well, it seems like it needs to be tightened, so when I go into service this week I'll have them look at the alignment. It sounds like your dealer has done/doing everthing they could do. The 2003 TL's are pretty sweet and very luxorious. I'd say that's a pretty good loner. Well good luck and hope they get it fixed.

Wess

 

they will kiss your ass from sunup to sundown... as long as you don't make a fuss. just remember their job is to keep you from freaking out.

 

So, after replacing the subframe they say that they finally have the alignment set up straight. Before, the camber was supposedly off (although it was tracking fine).

How would I know if the camber is really within the bounds that it's supposed to be? Just look for tire wear, or is there another way?

 

That would be horrible if they didn't finally fix your allignment. That would be worse than... say... FDL banning you six times.

 

Give it a rest...how old are you?

 

Does anyone know the specs for camber on the rear wheels of the TSX?

I've read this thread of notes with some interest because I have a problem which seems almost the same as pbanerji on my TSX which I picked up on 3-26-04... I think the answer to his/her last question is to request a copy of the read out from the dealer's alignment machine.

The dealer finally did put my TSX on the alignment machine and attempted to align it. They reset the toe to the nominal values (at least the nominal values for a 99-03 TL because they don't have the specs for the TSX loaded into their alignment machine) but were unable to adjust the camber or caster because they are apparently not adjustable on the TSX. I confirmed this with a local alignment shop. The camber on my left front is +.5 degrees and the camber on my right front is -.1degrees. The camber spec for the front wheels is 0 + or - .45 degrees. Therefore my left front is outside the spec range for camber. The caster on my left front is +2.4 degrees and the caster on my right front is +2.6 degrees. The front caster spec for the TSX is 3.1 degrees + or - .45 degrees. Therefore the caster on both the left and right front is outside of the spec range. The camber on my left rear is -.9 degrees and right rear is -1.6 degrees. This is way outside the spec range for the 99-03 TL for the right rear and just inside the range for the left rear.
The car drifts to the left and seems skittish especially in turns.
I'm meeting with the dealer service manager next tuesday and the Acura area rep will also apparently be there that afternoon. Any words of wisdom/advice would be appreciated.

 

I also picked up my TSX in early January, but the driving experience is the best of any car I have driven, it feels like it is running on rails, no wander or any issues at all. The reason I am posting this is to encourage you to stick it out and have them get it right. Don' settle. Good luck.

 

You guys must keep in mind that these vehicles are transported from Japan. They are then transported in trucks to the dealerships. There is ample opportunity for damage to be done to the cars. As long as your dealer is working hard to fix the problem, don't do anything silly like "ARBITRATE". Let them do their thing and if they still can't deal with the problem, dicuss the Lemon Law with them. For the most part, I think they can fix the problem.

 

I'm more than willing to work with them. And, I'm willing to be patient about it. My concern is that they may not be willing to work with me based on some of their reactions. They continue questioning whether or not there is any problem even though the printout from their alignment machine clearly identifies there is a problem and defines its extent. A couple of lines in the telephone voice message I recieved from the service department manager are..."I sure hate to start putting new parts in a new car" and... "One of my mechanics has a TSX and and he says it has a lot of torque steer which I think tends to pull the car to the left" I hope their attitude changes.

 

Go to a different dealer.

My dealer was great... Even though the car felt okay, they pointed out that the alignment wasn't quite right. They replaced many parts till things were right (I hope!). It took more than a week, during which period they gave me a loaner.

I was extremely happy with the service.

 

Funny you should mention alignment. I have a 6mt so I steer a lot with my left hand only. I notice that I have to push the steering wheel up a bit in either lane, (having to pull it down is sooo much better as you just rest your hand and gravity does it) also my steering wheel was a teeny bit off center - not much but that bothers me. When I took it in for my cassete deck install they were supposed to do an alignment.
The service mgr said they had no specs yet from Acura for an alignment. I believe I just got the "they all do that" type of answer. It seems to me that Acura has really dropped the ball on their quality control on this car. Hopefully just for little things.

 

Oh, justwhat symptoms were present that alignment was suspect? When I let go of my wheel the car stays on track pretty well.

 

I'm trying to reach pbanerji to reqwuest that he/she communicate the name of his/her Acura dealer to me so that I can forward it to the service manager at my Acura dealer (White Bear Acura in White Bear Lake MN). I met with the service manager and the Acura Area representative at my dealer yesterday and am happy to report they agreed there is problem with my alignment and will work with me to fix it. The service manager hopes to learn from the other dealer's experience repairing the alignment on pbanerji's TSX. pbanerji's profile specifies he/she does not wish to recieve email contacts generated thru this forum. I urge him/her to please contact me via whatever means is comfortable. My email address is:

brian.vollum@dot.state.mn.us

My work phone is 651 582 1408
My home phone is 612 823 6301

My work address is 1500 West County Road B2, Roseville MN 55113

My home address is 3829 Pillsbury Avenue, Minneapolis, MN 55409

I'll post more info about the alignment specifications for the 2004 TSX on this thread later today in case there are any other members who think they may have a problem with the alignment on their TSX.

 

I called Acura tech and was told that my dealer may not have the specs for TSX alignment in their machine and it is the manufacturer of the machine that have yet to upgrade their software so my question about the specs was answered .
How did your car behave that led to alignment being the culprit?

 

My car had/has the same drift to the left characteristic that Shorei seems to be describing. In addition, as I have described before, the car seems "skittish". By skittish I mean the following...the steering wheel seems light and not firm and balance...I feel like I really really need to keep two firm hands on the wheel in turns but even going down the road straight I feel like I should have two firm hands on the wheel. My intuition is that my car was damaged in transport somehow. My car was delivered to the dealer in Mid March. I would be interested to know if Shorei's car could have possibly been on the same ship or train or truck. I'm in Minnesota so truck and maybe even train seem unlikely since Shorei is in Florida.

I would encourage Shorei to ask his dealer to go for a ride with him/her in Shorei's car and at least one if not two other TSXs. Manual or automatic makes no difference. I would further encourage him to drive both or all three cars on the same route and make sure it includes some tight turns that he drives through fairly aggressively. When I did this the difference in handling/feel between my TSX and the other TSX was like night and day. The other TSX felt like the TSXs I test drove last summer before ordering mine last winter.

As far as alignment specs go, the dealer may not have them in his machine but he does know what the specs are. He has a hard copy service manual that must be 1000 pages long which contains them and he has electronic access to them via something Acura refers to as the INTERACTIVE NETWORK. His alignment machine may not have the specs dialed into it but he can put your car on his alignment machine and read/print the current measurements of your cars alignment.

 

2004 TSX Alignment Specifications:

1. Front Camber...Nominal = 0.00 degrees...Minimum = -0.45 degrees...Maximum = +0.45 degrees...Maximum Difference between Left and Right Camber = 0.45 degrees.

2. Front Caster....Nominal = 3.13 degrees...Minimum = 2.68 degrees...Maximum = 3.58 degrees....Maximum differece between Left and Right Caster = 0.45 degrees.

3. Front Toe...Nominal = 0.00 inches...Minimum = -1/16 inch...Maximum = +1/16 inch....Total Toe (left and right)...Nominal = 0.00 millemeters/inches....Minimum = -2 milllimeters or -.08inches...Maximum = +2 millimeters or +0.08 inches.

4. Rear Camber...Nominal = -1.00 degrees...Minimum = -1.30 degrees...Maximum = -0.70 degrees...Maximum difference between Left and Right Camber = 0.45 degrees.

5. Rear Toe...Nominal = +1/16 inch...Minimum = 0.00....Maximum = +1/8 inch....Total Toe (left and right)...Nominal = +2 Millimeters or +.08 inches....Minimum = 0.00...Maximum = +4Millimeters or +.16 inches.

Of these only toe is adjustible on the TSX. The manual states that if either Caster or Camber are out of specification "check for damaged or bent suspension components."

These if one more alignment specification which is called the "Front Wheel Turning Angle". I don't understand this very well but for what it is worth the specification is as follows:

1. Inside Wheel...Nominal = 35.15 degrees....Minimum = 33.15 degrees....Maximum = 37.15 degrees.
2. Outside Wheel....29.38 degrees (Reference)

Turning angle is also not adjustible on the TSX and if it is out of specification the manual says check for bent or damaged suspension components.

 

Just think.. you could have gotten this as a loaner

 

Well, it appears my dealer is of the opinion that there is no evidence that the alignment/suspension on my TSX needs any work even though his alignment machine measures it as being out of Acura's specifications. I thought a major purpose of manufacturer specifications was to define normal.

 

had same problem. Mine was a tire radial pull. Tell the dealer to swap your wheels and tires with differet ones. Whenever i drove the wehll would jerk to the right when i let go of it.