npolite

This just started last week. On specific bumps (for example going up my driveway from the street) I noticed that the noise coming from the passenger's front side sounds hollow. This is probably the best I can describe it.

Last week I tried playing around with the lower ball joint and upper control arm but there was no play. I am going to try to see where the issue is this weekend.

I have around 67,300 miles on the TSX and haven't replaced any suspension parts. If you can recall any suspension parts that have failed in your vehicle around this mileage, can you please let me know so I can try to focus in on that area?

Thanks

Simba91102

67K miles is nothing on your TSX. It's a very rare thing here to read of the failure of actual suspension parts on a TSX (but there's always the exception), unless something is damaged. Axles and bushings yes, but those aren't really parts of the suspension. I would suggest an end link perhaps, or one of the subframe bushings. There's a very outside chance of a loose wheel, which I have encountered, but only with a specific model of aftermarket wheel.

npolite

Thanks I was thinking more of it being a bushing so I'll focus on that. The tie rod end boots are beginning to crack so I figure they'll be next to be replaced.

npolite

I checked everything yesterday. The only thing I found was some play with the inner tie rods when both wheels were off the ground. This might be normal though because the driver side did this as well, and I notice the issue only on the passenger side. I tried to wash all of the bushing since we had a ton of salt on the roads these past couple of weeks but it didn't help.

I have the ECU TSB to get done so I'll bring this up in the next couple of weeks if it continues.

TexasHonda

Stablizer link looseness is a possibility. This will definitely cause a clunk.

good luck

Mskierki

I know winter is not the best time to be doing this; but, you could get a rubber hammer and bang around underneath the car. If anything was loose you could pin point the location.

V-dub-R

Inspect transmission and engine mounts, from what you're describing it sounds like transmission mount on passenger side crapped out.

npolite

Thanks. I'll try to take a look next weekend. Tomorrow isn't going to be good as we just got hit with the snow in Philly.

npolite

The issue appears to be more noticeable while turning through a bump. I am willing to bet the issue is either with the internal CV or tie rod. I am going to have a look in detail on Saturday to see what I can come up with. The noise is more noticeable now so hopefully the part that is the issue may more easily now.

I have a scheduled visit for the following Friday if I can't figure this out.

Tangoman

Turning through a bump like that will cause a broken stabilizer bar link to clunk. But, I'm assuming you've already checked this since it is visible without even taking off the wheel.

npolite

I had a look at the car today. I tried everything I can think of to replicate the noise. I do see a slight gap in the bushings for the stabilizer bar. I think with all of these parts I would be getting some type of clanking sound. Maybe it isn't to the point yet to be fully worn out to do that.

The only thing I can says it something sounds off with the feedback being generated from the bumps. The worst part is it doesn't do this all of the time.

npolite

Dealer called and said it was two things, the bushings on the lower control arm and the stabilizer link end. I tried everything over the weekend to flex the link ends and there was no noise. I'm having them do the bushings since I don't have all of the equipment to do that myself. The link ends I can do and is an easy job. $450 total for the bushings. My car has just under 68k miles. This is the first time I have had issues with the bushings at such a low mileage. I'm really peeved about this and will be filing a complaint with Acura services (although I doubt I will get anywhere with them).

V-dub-R

Oh yes, the dreaded control arm bushings...

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/04-08-front-lower-control-arm-bushing-failure-please-read-look-707888/

npolite

Ok so I was able to get the stabilizer link ends out. I applied kroil on Monday and PB Blaster yesterday so it had some time to get in there. It was still a pain but not as difficult as it was when I tried and failed on Monday.

I have a stupid question. How are you supposed to properly torque the bolts while having a hex wrench on the end on the bolt?

V-dub-R, thanks for the link. I'm kind of surprised I haven't heard more members on here complaining about this issue.

I'm not certain if I still hear the noise or not. I tightened the bolts with a wrench but I'm not the strongest person by far so don't know if it's enough. I can tell everyone that with the old links I could move the ball joint with my hand. I don't think the new ones do that but didn't try it out. I will try again tomorrow to tighten it with a ratchet.

If more people do have this issue, I think Honda has a serious issue with their suspension. I was reading up on the procedure to remove this and found older posts with people having 100-160k miles before replacing these. My car has 68k.

I think I'm going to see if Honda will float some of this after I provide some postings here on the issue.

npolite

Also forgot to mention that when I tightened the nut, I didn't need to use the hex wrench since the balljoint didn't move.

npolite

Here is an update. I went out and bought the crows foot 14mm and a smaller torque wrench. Total was $20 so I'm not worried about getting the parts.

I set the torque wrench to 22 ft/lbs and with the crows foot attempted to tighten the one attached to the lower control arm. That one clicked immediately so it was fine.

I went and got a 14 mm socket and tightened the one to the sway bar and that wasn't tight. I had to put some effort but got that one to 28 ft/lbs.

This time once again I didn't need to use the hex wrench to hold the screw in place.

Sadly the issue is still there. I've seen a few videos where the crank the heck out of the screw. I think this will need to go once again to the dealer. This time I am going to escalate this with Honda/Acura if the dealer doesn't offer a significant discount. Either I had a misdiagnosis which I am out $500, or I have a complete failure of the right suspension which Honda needs to investigate. 68k miles I should not be having all of these issues.

npolite

Update: I've lost count of how many times I removed the wheel to try to figure this out. I took it to the dealer once again and they couldn't find the issue. I took a few co-workers out and they were all able to hear the noise.

The one thing I found was it was raining on the day the dealer took the car to have a look. I'm wondering if the stabilizer bar bushing needs to be lubricated. I'm still thinking this is what is causing the noise.

The dealer said I could take a tech out to hear the noise while I drive. I tried on one day and wasn't able to replicate it on the fly. I do notice that the noise happens on some speed bumps. There is one just across the street from the dealer but I can't get it to make it there either. Outside of my work there is one, I can replicate it on request.

Gsiraent

npolite, did you ever fix your issue?

npolite

I'm going to wait probably until next week (hopefully no more snow and warmer weather) and try to replicate the problem around the dealer's roads.

I have a place just around my home but that it too far to have the tech come and hear it.

Keyzmama

npolite, I've had the symptoms that you described that I've fixed by replacing the FSB bushings. I couldn't replicate the noise by pulling on the FSB either, however when hitting the bar with a mallet I could hear the "clunk".
Even though you have low mileage, rubber components do not fare well with time. Check out the pictures that I've taken of the old vs new bushings, you can see that the inner diameter on the old bushing has stretched quite a bit - hence the clunking. Those new Energy bushings are ~$25 on eBay.

http://imgur.com/a/pGttL

npolite

Thanks Keyzmama for the information. I have a feeling all along that this is the issue but you start to second guess things that could be much worse. I just need to find some place to prove to them that this is what I hear. Even if I don't get them to hear it at least if I tell the tech to where to focus on maybe he will instead of looking at the other suspension components.

I'm sure nothing made it's way from what I told the service advisor to the tech. This way I can directly talk to him.

npolite

While it was warm out yesterday I had a look at the bushing again. If you look at where the slit to slide the bushing in, it isn't any longer flush. I am thinking this has to be the issue.




Why on earth did Honda not slide the clamp 1" over to allow a wrench on the other bolt, I have no idea. This is just bad design. Has anyone attempted to remove this by bending the bracket and using some type of soap to slide it out?

I can't imagine how much someone will charge if you have to drop the subframe. I curse the engineers who allowed such a terrible design!

TexasHonda

Shop manual indicates the front suspension subframe must be removed to access the bolts.

I've replaced end bushings (accord) several times and never found any significant wear in the mid-bar guide bushings. I've heard some complain of squeaks due to dry bushing and sprayed light oil or grease to eliminate. On Accords the mid-bar bushings are readily accessible.

I would think unless you can detect any looseness by hitting w/ a bar, it's tight enough to stablize the bushing.

good luck

npolite

Ok so here is an update. I was trying to find a road which I can sort of replicate the issue. While I was trying to find a road i was backing up and reversing in the area I came across something. I think it's the axles that may be causing the issue. If I take the steering wheel and turn the wheel one was while reversing and then turn it the other way while going forward I hear this noise.


http://vocaroo.com/i/s1WJLDW5eeWf

I am going to schedule this week a road test but I don't know if both issues are related. Any help would be appreciated.

V-dub-R

Upper control arm bushings are also known to make noise while turning, you could try to remove and lubricate these bolts and see if this helps. I read that if the bolts that go through the bushings aren't torqued correctly they can cause squeaking. The noises are most likely from over tightening on those bushing bolts. I had the same problem as well, until I loosen them a bit, the noises went away.

http://www.carid.com/images/mevotech.../ms60160-3.jpg

npolite

Thanks for the response. Sorry I have been busy and just had time to respond. What do you think I should treat the bushings with, silicone grease, wd40, kroil?

npolite

I am willing to bet that the rack is going. There are quite a few people who have had this go on their TSX way before it should. I have an appointment 2 Wednesdays from today to diagnose it further. I will update as soon as I can.

npolite

Thinking a little bit on this I may actually have two problems. I don't think the clunking noise is related but will see what they say. I just don't want to drop money on a new rack and having some other major component such as the shock or stabilizer bar bushing being the issue as well. I plan on discussing this with Honda on having them pay all or part of the cost

npolite

I have another appointment on Monday so I will post back. I am almost certain something inside the axle has failed. The boots are in good condition but with all of these vibration issues I wouldn't be surprised that I have some issue with it. The tick/poping noise only happens when I turn the wheel all of the way to the right, reverse a little bit, turn the wheel all of the way to the left and drive it makes the noise. It only does this while the car is moving.

Also normal driving I don't hear this unless I turn the wheel all of the way.

I will post an update once I hear back.

npolite

Here is an update. I went to a parking lot close to the dealer and was unable to replicate the issue. I came home and it made the noise immediately.

This evening I went to try to see what factors caused the noise, the ramp in my driveway, temp or something else. I finally can replicate it on the fly by applying the brakes slightly and putting the car in reverse while steering left to right. If anyone has anything they can contribute I would appreciate it.

One thing to add is that I replaced the rotors (Brembo blanks) and pads (Hawks ceramics) last November. These two issues started around a month later so I hope it was just bad timing and not the actual parts as I really like the stopping power of the pads and the no material build-up on the rotors.

Not knowing (as well a 3 times to the dealer) what is causing this is really making me question if I should dump the car. I don't want to throw the towel in but I can say that the luck on this car in the past year has been terrible.

Tangoman

You've been posting on this thread for so long and really no one in the community has been able to help you out.

I'd like to sit in the car and try to diagnose this with you, but I'm in Illinois and no PA. Too far away to help! Anyone in PA have a lot of car fixing experience and can help this guy out?

Axles are about 50 bucks a piece for OEM rebuilds after core charge. I just replaced mine at 160k, thinking it would fix my particular problem, instead it was actually my transmission so that sucks.

I feel your pain. Let us know what else we can do to help. Can you put a webcam down there in your wheel well and record the suspension/CV join, replicate the sound and see if you can catch anything on video? My buddy used that method to diagnose a tranny mount problem.

npolite

Well just got the call back. They mentioned to me that it is normal for it to make that popping noise? This started happening recently after I replaced the rotors so I am thinking I may want to swap them back and see what happens with the OEM stuff. The other hollow noise I don't know but I have a feeling it is something internal to the axle.

Does anyone's TSX make this type of noise when reversing and applying the brakes slightly? Listen to around 1:40 and 2:00 into the clip.

Here is the recording: Vocaroo | Voice message

Tangoman

Sounds like a dust shield around your rotors is touching the rotor. Go in there and bend them away from the back of the rotors and see if it goes away... could be hitting something when you turn the wheel slightly. Take off the wheel, look for the thin black piece of metal that sits behind the rotor and kind of comes up and around it. Really inspect it, turn the wheel, see if it hits anything, etc.

npolite

Ah good idea. Maybe the Brembo blanks are a bit thicker and are causing the noise.

Tangoman

Even if they aren't, it's common to accidentally lean on one when changing rotors and bend them a bit.

jabbar

I've been having a similar noise which I've been chasing for years. Ion the front I've changed all control arms, end links, axles, struts, trying to get this stupid noise to go away. I've also changed my engine mounts as well to no avail. The only thing left would be the subframe, sway bar, the rack, or the tranny itself which i simply can't believe. I've got a significant amount of gear lash as well. Does anyone have any ideas on what would cause a faint hollow knock especially on fast take off from 1st thru 3rd?

npolite

I don't have this issue when the car shifts, rather when going over bumps which are in a quick succession. I've had multiple mechanics look at it and one specialty shop who just repairs Hondas and Acuras. He told me that it may be the strut but to not even bother with fixing it. I've done just that and while it is annoying any anything I've filtered it out that this noise won't damage the car and end up killing me. It sucks that it is there but I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars on a car that is almost 11 years old now and doesn't have anything structurally wrong. Just tune it up to Honda being cheap or creating a defect.

jabbar

Did you ever fix this problem? I have the same....

cmarcus

This may be an old thread, but I had a similar issue. It was a hollow rattling sound when going over washboard type bumps. Drove me nuts for years. Had it to the dealer they replaced a few parts; struts, bushing, etc. but made no difference. Then I decided to look for it myself and found that my passenger side brake pads were loose and rattling inside the caliper and the entire caliper was loose and rattling against the bracket. It looked like the lower bolt that holds the caliper in place was too long or the caliper was not drilled and tapped deep enough. The upper bolt seemed ok. I placed a washer in both the upper and lower caliper bolts and it pulled the caliper tight to the bracket. Took it for a test drive and viola, my noise was gone. It's been 3 years now and still as quiet as can be.

Not sure if this would be your issue, but perhaps it helps.

npolite

That's interesting. You know I started noticing this issue just after I replaced the rotors which of course requires the caliper to be removed. For the lower caliper bolt, did you notice play or was there a gap? I'll have a look this weekend or next to see. Do you think this was faulty from the factory?

Nick