Just got back from Euroaccord13's house to remove my Cusco lower arm bar (Type 1)... I noticed recently a hollow noise at certain RPMS - it was the lower arm bar hitting the flex pipe on my stock exhaust/headers.

How did this happen? Well listen to this. There are no visible signs of a hit or knock to the lower arm bar. There is a slight bend in the bar at one corner. Ie the bar new looks like this \__/ - well mine has a slightly different angle at one end but the base is straight! Even with pics it will be hard for people to spot any problem with the bar.

Anyway I am almost certain how the bar became bent. 10 days ago I rotated my tyres in my driveway. The process I used was fairly basic. I jacked up each corner of the car - removed the tyre - fitted the spare. Then rotated the tyre to the spot I wanted it, etc. So basically each corner was jacked up twice to be able to get the tyre where I wanted it.

Somehow the car being cocked up at each corner multiple times has bent the bar slightly. Obviously when the car is on 3 wheels with one corner lifted high it does put some pressure on the chassis - well the bar obviously can't handle that twisting pressure multiple times. I am certain this is what caused the problem as the car has barely been driven since I performed the rotation and the knocking noise has only surfaced since the rotation. There are also no prior scrapes I can recall (nor are there any scrapes or clear knocks on the bar).

The other thing I noticed immediately after rotating my tyres was that the car was drifting to the right. I thought it was the tyres. It was the lower arm bar being twisted causing the car to be out of alignment at the front end.

As soon as I removed the bar the car tracks straight as an arrow again.

Moral of the story - even with OEM headers and zorst - the lower arm bar can knock your flex pipe and throw the car out of alignment. For the lower arm bar to be out of wack all you need is some twisting motion - even jacking up the car a few times at each corner can do it.

Don't bother buying this guys - this Cusco product is far too fragile to be worth the trouble. If you already have this product make sure you use a trolley jack and avoid raising the car at each corner - raise it at front centre or rear centre jacking points with a trolley to prevent the twisting action that bent my bar. What a piece of junk -not happy

For people who are not familiar - this is what the bar looks like when fitted to the vehicle

 

Thanks for the heads up...

 

sorry for being a newbie but what is this bar suppose to do for you? lol

 

Reduces chassis flex.
Might be worth speaking with Cusco about this - yours could be defective or maybe it's something they're not aware of.
This could be valuable feedback and may result in them changing the design.
Seems like the angle could do with some reinforcement or just a change to a thicker wall. I presume it is hollow?

 

I had a look at the Cusco web site and there is no email address for them listed. If anyone knows what it is please let me know.

But you are right they may change the design. At the moment it is a hollow alloy design. I think they have focused more on light weight rather than strength.

 

you think a thin piece of metal like that, bolted up in the middle of the car, will affect the alignment of the front end?

 

Yes - how else can you explain my car not pulling to the right now?

 

you have pictures of bent Cusco brace?

i have type II and hopefully it won't bend easily as type I

 

A local reseller or importer (if you can find who they are) would have contact details.
Equally, they might do the asking on your behalf to see what they can arrange by way of resolving the problem, short of buying a new one.

If no joy on that front, and you resign yourself to forgetting about it, then maybe the Kunimitsu brace would be a better alternative, since it's a 4-bar/mount square design rather than a single, twin mount affair.

 

Here are some pics - it is next to impossible to see the problem without pulling out a measuring tape and seeing the milimetre differences in each corner. I am running the stock headers and exhaust so this shouldn't be touching the flex pipe...

What I really need is to compare mine to a brand new one and see exactly the difference.

By the way - I measured the bar and it weighs a measly 400 grams.

The bar was painted blac kwhen new. The silver you can see in one pic was the flex pipe touching the bar over the period of one week.

 

are you talking about this slight gap in the picture?

 

I does seem rather far fetched that a few millimeters makes a difference in handling/feeling.
If that were the case, surely the larger differences of incorrect rear camber would be more pronounced.
Are you sure there's nothing else that's gone awry?
It's incredible to think something so light can exert sufficient force that affects the car's handling.
But if as you say, the car back at stock level feels fine, then there must be something to what you say.
Very strange indeed.

 

I will look at a new bar soon to see how much clearance has been reduced with my bar. When new I had zero problems with noise associated with flex pipe touch. This is something that has only just occured after the tyre rotation. Doesn't make much sense I agree - to me the bar doesn't look like it is out of wack by much.

The problem with the bar did not cause "handling or feel" problems. The car would just drift to the right on a flat road since the rotation. With the bar removed the car is tracking straight.

 

if I put on coilovers and if my fuel mileage suddenly dropped by 5MPG I could surmise it was caused by the coilovers, but it doesn't mean its true. there's plenty of reasons your car may have been tracking wrong, you just rotated tires, possibly the tires had worn enough on the new corners to no longer track. it could've also been the roads you were driving on.

i bashed the hell out of my type-2 and it had absolutely zero effect on my ride. if anything the cusco has no affect on handling

 

That is fair enough - I agree with you.. The tracking difference could well be the tyres. I am still stumped by what has caused this bar to now suddenly touch the flex pipe. The only conclusion I can draw is the jacking up has warped the bar.

 

LOL. He had problems after rotating tyres and when he took the bar off, the tracking problem was gone. So it is the bar.

 

In order for the brace to honestly cause a problem with the chassis, it would not even fit on there correct.

Whether the bar is straight, bent, or made a perfect U-shape, it bolts onto the chassis in two places and holds it. The brace does not (or should not) physically put any pressure on the chassis mounting points. If you can install and remove the bar without a hammer or a crowbar, the brace is not being put under load and is therefore not causing a flex.

The ONLY way the brace would be bent is if something bent it. Yes, it is possible something bent it would leaving a mark behind.


Now, if the bar IS indeed bent, it could cause a flex in the chassis and cause a pull. If you unbolt and re-bolt the brace, the pull should go away. Just loosening the brace would take the load off the subframe and allow it to straighten out. Re-bolting the bar would not cause the flex to come back.


The weight of the brace has nothing to do with anything. It is a hollow aluminum bar. It is light and very strong. This bar is more rigid than a comparably constructed steel one. Anyone who rides a road or mountain bike can confirm that steel tube flexes more than aluminum with this construction.

Marcus

 

Thanks very much for your post. It has given me some ideas. Firstly I need to check my bar against a friend's bar that is not touching the flex pipe. It may be that my bar is straight. After I read your post it occured to me that perhaps when I jacked up the car the bar flexed causing the pressure on the sub frame (leading to pull). This flex led to the shorter clearance between the flex pipe and the bar. And the resulting clunk noise.

My friend who removed the bar for me said under the car the bar looked bent. But as you can see in the pics it doesn't really look bent does it? So I wonder whether removing the bar has returned it back to its normal shape. Lets see if there are any differences between my bar and a friend's bar.

Marcus - can you think of any reason why the bar would touch the OEM flex pipe in circumstances where it is not bent?

 

I just can't imagine jacking the TSX up causes enough chassis flex to bend anything. On mine, you can even open/close the doors with one corner jacked up. Causing a permanent bend in that bar seems like it would require several mm of chassis deflection in one of the strongest areas of the car...just seems crazy...you'd almost be able to see that much chassis flex.

Anyway, I've had my Type-1 on the car for about a year now, no problems. Have jacked the car up too many times to remember.

 

i just ordered these yesterday too !

 

Firstly why is your bar black, not Cusco metallic blue?

Secondly check the rubber exhaust hanger that the OEM header collector section is connected too hasn't torn through.

It did this on mine ages ago and I've since replaced it. If this is the case you'll have to disconnect the lower section from both the primary and cat to rotate it around enough to fit the new hanger without causing undue stress to the new item.

Back to lurking for me.....

 

does this brace REALLY improve anything at all??? It seems unlikely to me that one bar bolting in two spots could produce any noticable difference in handeling. if you have RSB, FSB and still seeking to stiffen up wouldn't it be more adequate to just get a coilover suspension?

 

The bar doesn't reduce chassis flex. It reduces front subframe flex.

 

It improves the steering response slightly and the car feels tighter in the corner up the front. It's a good mod for those who don't want the stiffness of coilovers, yet want to have some handling gain. But yeah, the effect of the bars is nothing compared to coils.

 

You'd surprised at how much more rigid the chassis can get.

I just put a similar bar on my Tealtoe Civic, and I could tell a difference IMMEDIATELY.

Marcus

 

I have a question in regards to this, when I took the bar off yfin's car, the bolt hole is out of alignment subframe and the body etc.., i.e from visual estimates, it's about 2-3mm out, the bolt doesn't go back in straight, will this cause any future or major problems?



The bar is mine and yes it's a Cusco Unit, I sprayed it black to keep it low profile...

 

Just took off my bar. No rubbing with the headers. When compared to this pic of yfin's bar, my bolt holes are almost parallel to the ground unlike his.

 

well if it is bent, it looks bent out. really the thing that makes the most sense is that the exhaust hanger is ripped and the exhaust is hitting the inside of the bar. yfin did you get a chance to look under there?

 

Aaron - it would be good to meet with you to compare the bars! That gap you see in the photo from the ground to the bar is at best 1mm or 2mm and as Xizor says it is out so that should increase clearance.

It is dark when I get home so it is difficult for me to look under the car very well. I did so earlier with a torch and I can't see anything untoward. I pushed up and down on the flex pipe area and it didn't move. The height of the flex pipe is about the same as the muffler in the middle of the car if that helps. Mattell when your exhaust hanger dropped was it very obvious? I can't see anything obviously wrong but I think I need to get the car raised to have a good look.

 

Ermmm... I just swapped Aaron's bar over the MUGEN88's car... heeheehee....


Oh, Aaron's bar is dented too......

 

I had to physically get under the car and move the exhaust with my hand to confirm it was broken.

Without any engine load the drop in exhaust height is only discernible to a very attentive eye...and considering the number of time's I've seen the underside of my car, that is what I have.

The best and easiest way is just look under the car at the exhaust while an assistant starts the engine. You'll immediately see the increased freedom of movement, or the cat section of the exhaust 'lash' about under engine load if the hanger is broken.

As for the bolt misalignment, that's simple. It's obvious the car wasn't jacked level left to right. This is another reason for using a trolley jack on the front centre sub frame jack point. This missalignment is more pronounced on the type II bar when trying to install or remove the aft (two per side) 14mm (I think) chassis bolts.

 

Update on this - reinstalled the lower arm bar this time with 2 x 16mm galvanised washers on each corner. It increases the clearance to the flex pipe by about 4mm. So far so good - no rattles from the flex pipe whilst driving. Hopefully this is a permanent fix. I am going to avoid raising the car at each corner with a jack just in case.

If anyone out there hears a faint rattle from under the car give the washers a go to improve clearance.

Mattell mentioned that I check the exhaust hanger - it is not damaged and all was ok in that respect.