ludespeedny

So recently I have been noticing my A/C acting up.
Last year I had the compressor, condensor, etc all replaced because of my original one grenading.

Now that it is warm out I am noticing that it is almost always cycling (can feel it turn on because it bogs down the engine).

Here is what I have tried:
Setting it to ON via HVAC controls - problem persists
Setting temp to AUTO - problem persists
Setting it to off - no issue
swapped the 2 relays (both black not sure what both were) issue persists so swapped back.

Any suggestions? Could it be both relays are bad? I swapped the one between the 2 bigger green ones and the one almost directly below it.

When the A/C cycles constantly it does get cold, but it takes a bit cause it does it so much. almost 1 cycle every 3 seconds.

Also not related (I don't think) but I have been noticing a clicking sound from my center console(sounds like it is near my seatbelt) sometimes it clicks a lot sometimes it doesn't. I cannot faithfully reproduce it, just seems to happen on its own.

I have a manual gearbox if that makes a difference.

demitrix

My A/C did this as well when it was undercharged, I recharged it, and the problem persisted due to actually over charging. Once I had my r134a levels all proper the problem went away.

ludespeedny

I'll check the levels. What did you have to do when overcharged to get it back to normal?

Miamicarfan

What year is your Acura TSX?

ludespeedny

2004

Project_CLean

iTrader: (2)

Before you go adding refrigerant, it'd be a good idea to check the system pressure. Over filling will cause the a/c system to malfunction as well.

ludespeedny

What is the best way to test that, and what pressure should it be?
I have an old can I used to recharge another system and it has a gauge on it, would that work for checking pressure?

demitrix

Just bled it. It took me a couple days to get it right, I don't know why but the gauge would read all over the place even though I was doing the refill correctly.

TexasHonda

To assess AC system pressures, you need both high and low side gauge. A low side only gauge may show OK pressures, but high side could be too high. Low charge can cause excess cycling, but cooling should be poor, so it's likely you're overcharged if cooling is good.

Cycliing occurs when system pressure goes to cut-off pressure of hi/low cut-off switch which opens and disables the compressor. Pressure drops w/ compressor off, switch closes, and compressor starts again.

Unless you want to learn AC system repair, you will need some help. You need an Ac manifold gauge set and some knowledge of how to use.

There are some good Hyanes and MasterCool books on AC repair if you choose to pursue DIY.

good luck

ludespeedny

I found some gauges to test so hopefully can do that this weekend

ludespeedny

I ran a a/c self test and it lit up the first segment on the top left of the 8, what is that?

TexasHonda

I have no idea what tool you are describing. You will need to provide a few details.

good luck

Mskierki

I am guessing that he is referring to the DTC diagnostics that moda_way has posted about before:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=231

I don't know off hand what the breakdown of the segments would indicate and I don't have my shop manual nearby. Perhaps someone else can chime in.

ludespeedny

yeah, I did the diagnosis on that thread

TexasHonda

It it is the upper segment of the LH 8, it is Code A. If RH 8, the B.

A = Open in in-car temp circuit
B = Short n in-car temp circuit

good luck

ludespeedny

it is the upper left side of the LH 8

ludespeedny

does anyone know how to test the relays? I tested the blower motor transistor and got continuity so assume that is good.
Also found the 1st segment is the in car temp sensor, where is that located? I fixed my hvac lights and pulled the radio so is it possible it is back there?

ken255

Switch #1 & #2
#1 is brower motor relay and #2 is A/C compressor

ludespeedny

I fixed the in-in car sensor. It was disconnected. I must not have plugged it in when I did the radio removal.

The issue now is that the A/C compressor stays on when I start the car, but once it warms up it kicks off and on not enough to even cool.

would one of the relays give me this issue? and how can I test to see if they are good?

ludespeedny

UPDATE*
I was able to get it hooked up to some gauges and a friend helped me out.
The high side would be about 150 - 200 psi, then sporadically jump to 400psi then back down.
He thought it could be pumping liquid (like too much oil in the system) or maybe a blockage or something. Any ideas?

Also I heard a pssshhh sound (like a pressure relief) when I was running it it happened 2x and we looked and thought it could be antifreeze down below where the compressor was. So we washed it out. After doing that we pulled off the gauges and saw the coolant in the A/C system was the same color and had leak indicator in it. I now have a blacklight to check with and went over everything I could see and didn't see any leaks.
Do non OEM compressors have a pressure relief?

Mskierki

You are correct the die is a yellowish color (similar to yellow highlighter fluid). It may not fluoresce if your black-light is not powerful enough, you may need to get a more powerful light and a special pair of glasses to view.

Were all the fans running while the compressor was on? With our system the pressures should be at a steady state when both the evaporator and condenser fans are on. You wouldn't see a big spike in pressures due to the compressor slugging liquid refrigerant or oil. To be honest unless someone really screwed things up with the install there shouldn't be that much oil in there, and the failure mode would be to damage the vanes and the unit would make a lot of noise then disintegrate.

There is a high pressure switch that would shut down the unit when a sufficient pressure was reached. What were the pressures on the low side of the system during your test?

Another note: these vapor compression systems are not designed to vent to the atmosphere during normal or abnormal operation. The only time that a system of this type would release its refrigerant would be when a component (or seal) was compromised or during a fire condition.

I don't want to make you chase random parts, but after I replaced my compressor I was having an issue with the unit going off due to the high pressure switch and it turned out that my TXV was stuck. I had one because it was included with the replacement kit that I sourced, so i just replaced it. If all your fans are working and the pressures are as expected (on the high and low side) you may want to try tapping (gently!) the connector where the refrigerant lines meet the firewall. The TXV is on the opposite side and it is a real PITA to replace.

Let us know what happens.

ludespeedny

Yeah, I was able to prove it will flouresce, but now I just have to wait to hear the pressure relief and then I can tell what it is if it is my 134a or antifreeze (since we washed it off when it orig happened)

Both the fans seemed to be on every time the compressor kicked on so I am assuming they are working fine and the relays seem to be working normal too.

We also looked through the sight glass for air and saw none.

I didn't think they had a vent so I may be chasing 2 different issues. It just seemed to happen only when the compressor was on.

What is the TXV?

TexasHonda

TXV is thermal expansion valve which controls refrigerant flow/expansion to produce cooling in evaporator. You may have a blockage from previously damaged compressor that is blocking refrigerant flow intermittently.

There should be a pressure relief valve on the compressor. However, the hi/lo pressure cut-out switch should disable before the relief valve releases, but it may be that pressure is rising very fast and release occurs anyway.

good luck

Mskierki

TXV is the Thermal eXpansion Valve. It is the device in the vapor compression system that meters the liquid refrigerant. It drops the refrigerant pressure allowing it to boil in the evaporator and due to the heat of evaporation absorb energy from the air (thus cooling it). There are several different types of metering valves, but our system utilizes this one.

So the fans are on, the compressor is on. What were the pressures on the low side of the system?

Also I am assuming that your coolant system utilizes yellow antifreeze otherwise you would have a good idea that the fluid you found was due to a refrigerant leak.

ludespeedny

When my compressor grenaded I got it repaired last summer the tech said he replaced everything but the lines and know he did the TXV. So everything should be basically brand new.

I didn't check the low side, but the other day it wasn't rising above 35psi and I tried filling it.

The antifreeze I am using is Green, and looks like the same color as the refrigerant, but I honestly think it is the refrigerant.

Mskierki

Well something isn't right here. The low side should drop when the system starts.

Another thing you could try is to let the car sit overnight or as long as possible with the compressor off. Then hook up the gauges, they should read the same pressure as the system will equalize.

vollum

The ac compressor on our TSX will not engage. I replaced the compresser relay today. Had an intermittant compressor problem three years ago and the compressor relay was the problem then. A friend placed his hand on the new relay when I turned the ac off and then on and he feels it click. The ac fan turns on but not the compressor. We bypassed the low pressure sensor and the compressor still did not turn on. I ran the self diagnostic IDed in other threads and referred to in this one...key in ii position..climate control on..then push climate control off button while pushing rear defrost button five times within 10 seconds,,,No error codes...Screen shows high...high with recirculate on...then low,,,and then goes blank. I tried tapping the compressor to check for the spacing issue. I just had the 90,000 mile service done on it Saturday...replace cabin and engine air filters, change oil etc. The AC has worked like a champ until all of a sudden this week. I'm perplexed.

vollum

I tried to edit this but didn't see the option. On Saturday the dealer also did the ECM corrosion safety recall. The description service description reads "REMOVE ECM/PCM AND INSPECT FOR CORROSION INSTALL PLASTIC COVER ON ECM/PCM". I'm pretty certain the ac worked when I brought the car in for service on Saturday. Do you think it is possible that something got messed up with the ECM/PCM which is making the ac not work?

TexasHonda

Check for 12V to the compressor. If 12V is present, the compressor clutch coil is open or clutch wire is damaged.

If 12V missing check system pressures when cold. Pressure should be roughly equal to air temp in degF. 80F ~= 80 psi. If much lower system pressure is low.

good luck

vollum

TexasHonda,

Thanks for your response. I don't have an electrical gauge.

I brought the TSX in to the dealer (same one that did the 90,000 mile check up and ECM warranty repair last Saturday), this morning at about 9...It's noon here now...I told them that it seems like an amazing coincidence to me that the compressor stopped working right after the visit last week. I signed up for the $143 diagnosis and they gave me a courtesy car.

When I brought the car in for the 90,000 mile check up last week the service adviser told me that they suggest having the AC system checked every spring. I told her the AC has been working great and declined the check up.

How could the compressor clutch wire get damaged? Is it out in the open and near the air filter or something else the servicing of which would make the clutch wire vulnerable to being damaged?

vollum

I just got a call from the dealer. The diagnostic is complete. There is power to the compressor and there is enough refrigerant in the system. They say the compressor has a wobble in it and the clutch is bad. They're recommending that basically the whole AC system with the exception of the hoses/pipes as well as the serpentine belt be replaced.....$2,035 including the diagnostic....Looks like I'm investing a couple of thousand dollars in the car.

TexasHonda

Basically bad clutch, and they replaced everything, turning a $400 job to $2K job. For a shop this path is a no-brainer, why worry about a call back when they make a profit on parts sold that you "probably" don't need. Hope they did it right!

Tales like this are why I do my own work.

good luck

vollum

TexasHonda,

Thanks for responding again.

The wobble in the compressor was the description I got over the phone from the service consultant. After the phone call, I drove out to the dealership and asked to talk with the tech who did the diagnosis. He told me that the compresser was not turning freely. If I'm reading some of your previous posts correctly, this story does match up with a compressor that is bad or, at least, is on the way out. I'm probably getting gouged a bit for the price of the parts they replace and they are probably replacing more parts than I really need.

But, this is our only car. I'm retired but my wife uses the TSX daily to to commute 13 miles to her work. We live in a high rise condo in downtown Saint Louis with heated enclosed parking on the lower floors of the building where working on one's car, other than quick minor things, is frowned upon. So, I am kind of stuck... Once my wife retires we won't need a car on a daily basis and I could at least shop round for alternative opinions of what really needs to be done and prices to do the work.

For now, I'm kind of stuck.

Thanks Again..I've found your posts on this forum to be some of the most knowledgeable, educational, and useful. Unfortunately, my circumstances don't allow me to make full use of them all the time. And, for this AC repair, I'll be paying thru the nose because of it.

Take Care,
Brian

vollum

As an update... they ended up not replacing the serpentine belt. The dealer gave a small discount on the parts and labor. total bill came to $1,800 including sales tax on the parts.

ludespeedny

I have not had anymore issues since I knocked on the TXV valve, and the compressor has not been venting anymore. But today it completely stopped working. I cannot get the compressor to turn on at all. Any ideas?

ludespeedny

just measured the low side and is reading 150psi is that too high?

Mskierki

Stable temperature and pressure? or is this after the car was running and you were trying to see if the a/c was working. What was the outside temperature?

ludespeedny

this was after coming home from work, and trying to get it working, then letting it sit for about 10-15 min.
I am suspecting the relay is bad, I tried swapping all 3 but none will make it turn on, is it possible the relays are bad, and how can I test?

Mskierki

You could apply 12Vdc to the coil and see if it engages. But if you are swapping the relays and nothing is happening, I would anticipate that it is an issue with some other part of the control circuit.

ludespeedny

Just a thought, I had repaired my pcb for the radio to fix the console lights issue. Is it possible the HVAC on the board is bad and causing these problems?