6MT Transmission Failure - Out of Warrenty
11-14-2005, 04:04 AM
#41
So, 50% of the cars that I've read about here (that's only two cars) have cracked transmission casings. Reputedly, the TSX is the 1st Honda/Acura with the magnesium casing, probably a foreshadow of things to come. Could it be argued that perhaps the 7lb weight saving (on a 3250lb car!!) was worth the expense or, in your case, the reliability?
I'm still debating the BMW 323i vs TSX, with no new car needed before April, but when my wife goes in to test drive the TSX, I will ask about the "reports" I've heard about this issue. In Mr. Honda's biography, I got the impression that he would have been all over something like this - and on your side. How often has this kind of thing happened, because there can't be too many higher-mileage TSX's around? Honda should WANT to look at that tranny, for R&D purposes, give you a new one, and say, "Thanks."
I'm still debating the BMW 323i vs TSX, with no new car needed before April, but when my wife goes in to test drive the TSX, I will ask about the "reports" I've heard about this issue. In Mr. Honda's biography, I got the impression that he would have been all over something like this - and on your side. How often has this kind of thing happened, because there can't be too many higher-mileage TSX's around? Honda should WANT to look at that tranny, for R&D purposes, give you a new one, and say, "Thanks."
11-14-2005, 10:34 AM
#42
I meant 50% of the high-mileage cars, those with 100,000+ miles. Still, it's an unpleasant statistic and it makes me wonder if some parts of this car aren't overstressed for a long-term daily driver.
11-14-2005, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by gdcwatt
I meant 50% of the high-mileage cars, those with 100,000+ miles. Still, it's an unpleasant statistic and it makes me wonder if some parts of this car aren't overstressed for a long-term daily driver.
There are probably thousands of TSX's out there that have over 100K. So one or two people here report a failure and its
The sky is falling!
11-14-2005, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by joerockt
Its amazing to me when people think our little microcosm here represents the majorty of TSX drivers
There are probably thousands of TSX's out there that have over 100K. So one or two people here report a failure and its The sky is falling!
There are probably thousands of TSX's out there that have over 100K. So one or two people here report a failure and its
The sky is falling!
11-14-2005, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RogerPodacter
Yeah i think that what, maybe 5%-10% of all TSX owners probably even read this board. And that is really stretching it, its probably a lot less than that. But i will say that not many TSXs in the U.S. have over 100K miles. I would guess it would be in the hundreds, barely. I have been to many dealerships while driving across the country to california, and every time i got service i always recieved the comment that this is the most miles that service dealer had seen on this car. Thats coming from 1 dealership in NJ, 2 in PA, 1 in Colorado, and 2 in California. Granted its not a very fair statistical sample population, but you get the idea.
Were most of your 107k miles stop-and-go, or up/down hills? My '03 Accord Coupe V6-6MT owner's manual says the trans. fluid needs to be changed every 60k if you drive in those conditions most of the time, 120k otherwise. I drive a fair amount too (2k+mi/mon), but it's mostly freeway. No problems so far with my tranny. All the dealerships I've been to include "replace trans. fluid" in the 30k mile (Major) service.
I've been considering the '06 TSX 6MT, but now I'm feeling apprehensive about it. The more I think about it, the more it seems like the Acura-first TSX magnesium trans. casing might actually be more fragile than what's normally used (aluminum?). If I'm going to spend over 26k on a car, I want one that will last, especially with the driving that I do. If this was a serious problem, I would expect a well-known brand like Honda to fix the problem in the later years.
Also, I looked up Magnesium on wikipedia: "For a long time, Porsche used magnesium alloy for its engine blocks due to the weight advantage, but around the early 1980's switched back to aluminium for its superior ruggedness at very high horsepower and lower cost."
Maybe that ruggedness is what the TSX's tranny is lacking?
11-14-2005, 02:16 PM
#46
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klutzy, one tranny going is nothing to get worried about. we're talking a fraction of a percentage of 6mt owners on this site having problems.
also, an engine block and a tranny case are apples and oranges, but I do understand your point.
also, an engine block and a tranny case are apples and oranges, but I do understand your point.
11-14-2005, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by klutzyfool
Hey Roger,
Were most of your 107k miles stop-and-go, or up/down hills? My '03 Accord Coupe V6-6MT owner's manual says the trans. fluid needs to be changed every 60k if you drive in those conditions most of the time, 120k otherwise. I drive a fair amount too (2k+mi/mon), but it's mostly freeway. No problems so far with my tranny. All the dealerships I've been to include "replace trans. fluid" in the 30k mile (Major) service.
I've been considering the '06 TSX 6MT, but now I'm feeling apprehensive about it. The more I think about it, the more it seems like the Acura-first TSX magnesium trans. casing might actually be more fragile than what's normally used (aluminum?). If I'm going to spend over 26k on a car, I want one that will last, especially with the driving that I do. If this was a serious problem, I would expect a well-known brand like Honda to fix the problem in the later years.
Also, I looked up Magnesium on wikipedia: "For a long time, Porsche used magnesium alloy for its engine blocks due to the weight advantage, but around the early 1980's switched back to aluminium for its superior ruggedness at very high horsepower and lower cost."
Maybe that ruggedness is what the TSX's tranny is lacking?
Were most of your 107k miles stop-and-go, or up/down hills? My '03 Accord Coupe V6-6MT owner's manual says the trans. fluid needs to be changed every 60k if you drive in those conditions most of the time, 120k otherwise. I drive a fair amount too (2k+mi/mon), but it's mostly freeway. No problems so far with my tranny. All the dealerships I've been to include "replace trans. fluid" in the 30k mile (Major) service.
I've been considering the '06 TSX 6MT, but now I'm feeling apprehensive about it. The more I think about it, the more it seems like the Acura-first TSX magnesium trans. casing might actually be more fragile than what's normally used (aluminum?). If I'm going to spend over 26k on a car, I want one that will last, especially with the driving that I do. If this was a serious problem, I would expect a well-known brand like Honda to fix the problem in the later years.
Also, I looked up Magnesium on wikipedia: "For a long time, Porsche used magnesium alloy for its engine blocks due to the weight advantage, but around the early 1980's switched back to aluminium for its superior ruggedness at very high horsepower and lower cost."
Maybe that ruggedness is what the TSX's tranny is lacking?
2nd part from wikipedia:
"However, there is renewed interest in magnesium engine blocks, as featured in the 2006 BMW 325i and 330i models. The application of magnesium AE44 alloy in the 2006 Corvette Z06 engine cradle has advanced the technology of designing robust automotive parts in magnesium. New alloy development and lower costs, which are becoming competitive to aluminum, will further the number of automotive applications. Norsk Hydro Magnesium and Meridian Technologies, Inc. are the major suppliers of magnesium to the automotive industry."
11-14-2005, 04:12 PM
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You're right, fdl, I'm probably getting worked up over nothing. I guess it's because Roger here has reached more mileage than most other TSX drivers, and I'd like to keep the car beyond that mileage without any problems.
Horro, I quoted that paragraph just for the statement that they switched back to aluminum for it's ruggedness, ruggedness suggesting that it's more durable than magnesium. I know the rest of it doesn't apply, since it's related to engine blocks, not trannys. Of course there's been a lot of technological advancement since 1980's. But the paragraph also says that VW has used magnesium in their engine blocks for some time now, and what have we noticed about VW's reliability?
Oh well, regardless of what's going on, I'm looking forward to the '06.
I guess it's because Roger here has reached more mileage than most other TSX drivers, and I'd like to keep the car beyond that mileage without any problems.Horro, I quoted that paragraph just for the statement that they switched back to aluminum for it's ruggedness, ruggedness suggesting that it's more durable than magnesium. I know the rest of it doesn't apply, since it's related to engine blocks, not trannys. Of course there's been a lot of technological advancement since 1980's. But the paragraph also says that VW has used magnesium in their engine blocks for some time now, and what have we noticed about VW's reliability?
Oh well, regardless of what's going on, I'm looking forward to the '06.
11-14-2005, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by klutzyfool
You're right, fdl, I'm probably getting worked up over nothing. I guess it's because Roger here has reached more mileage than most other TSX drivers, and I'd like to keep the car beyond that mileage without any problems.
I guess it's because Roger here has reached more mileage than most other TSX drivers, and I'd like to keep the car beyond that mileage without any problems.
11-14-2005, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RogerPodacter
I was planning on keeping the TSX for at least 200K miles. It sucks that i travel a lot with my car. But i thought a honda would be the best to do this with. I wonder what i could sell this baby for. I'm not really gonna do that, but just for fun i wonder if i could get at least more than i owe in payments on her.
Yeah, I know what you mean. After hearing about your tranny problems at 107k, I was reconsidering getting a cheaper car like the Mazda 3 (which got pretty good CR ratings, although it's fairly new too). I guess that's why they call those cars "commuter cars". I'm beginning to think that it might not be a good idea to spend the extra money to get a TSX that'll be used mainly for long straight drives on the freeway. I've always liked the TSX, though; would've gotten one if it was out at the time I got my car.
11-14-2005, 06:25 PM
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Well i recieved some good news from Acura Client Services today. They are going to meet me halfway on the price of the new tranny, which means that i will ultimately pay about half of what they originally quoted me at. That is fair of them to do that and makes me extremely happy and satisfied customer. Lets just hope that this is the last time i have a tranny issue though...
11-14-2005, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RogerPodacter
Well i recieved some good news from Acura Client Services today. They are going to meet me halfway on the price of the new tranny, which means that i will ultimately pay about half of what they originally quoted me at. That is fair of them to do that and makes me extremely happy and satisfied customer. Lets just hope that this is the last time i have a tranny issue though...
Be sure to take good care of it!
11-14-2005, 07:33 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by RogerPodacter
Well i recieved some good news from Acura Client Services today. They are going to meet me halfway on the price of the new tranny, which means that i will ultimately pay about half of what they originally quoted me at. That is fair of them to do that and makes me extremely happy and satisfied customer. Lets just hope that this is the last time i have a tranny issue though...
PS: Get the dealer to investigate as to WHY the case "malfunctioned" in the first place, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post their findings. I'd love to hear what might have caused a magnesium case to catastrophically fail. Seems strange.
PPS: Make sure Acura isn't just meeting you 1/2 way on the parts OR labour like they tried with my friend and with myself. It should be 1/2 way on BOTH.
11-14-2005, 11:07 PM
#54
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In late here, I'm buzy travelling too... and my tranny's fine, fortunately.
I'm really sorry to hear about his, Roger. I've had a few parts replaced and covered by Acura out of goodwill, even though those parts were way beyond their warranty limit. if you have a good case of a part that should not fail with regular usage, you should always give it a shot at having Acura support you with the repairs. For me, they paid the parts, and I paid for the labor. Still 1/2 and 1/2 is a lot better than 100% of the invoice paid by you.
If your budget still allows for it, definitely go with a lightweight flywheel. And don't worry about the Comptec flywheel, it is not light enough to cause you any driveability issues. I have found, and said this often, that the flywheel mod was the singlemost satisfying mod I've made to my car, because no comfort of particular aspect of the car's performance had been sacrificed, while the engine was noticeably rev-happier. I actually also found the car was morelenient with near stalls. It would actually pick right back up instead of what would have been an automatic stall with an OEM flywheel.
I definitely recommend you this. As for the clutch, for the usage you do, stick to OEM! They are good, dependable and durable. Aftermarket clutches won't come near that.
Good luck. You will catch up with me pretty soon as far as mileage goes. I'm taking delivery of the Smart in a month from now, and will transfer 30% of my mileage to the little new car.
I'm really sorry to hear about his, Roger. I've had a few parts replaced and covered by Acura out of goodwill, even though those parts were way beyond their warranty limit. if you have a good case of a part that should not fail with regular usage, you should always give it a shot at having Acura support you with the repairs. For me, they paid the parts, and I paid for the labor. Still 1/2 and 1/2 is a lot better than 100% of the invoice paid by you.
If your budget still allows for it, definitely go with a lightweight flywheel. And don't worry about the Comptec flywheel, it is not light enough to cause you any driveability issues. I have found, and said this often, that the flywheel mod was the singlemost satisfying mod I've made to my car, because no comfort of particular aspect of the car's performance had been sacrificed, while the engine was noticeably rev-happier. I actually also found the car was morelenient with near stalls. It would actually pick right back up instead of what would have been an automatic stall with an OEM flywheel.
I definitely recommend you this. As for the clutch, for the usage you do, stick to OEM! They are good, dependable and durable. Aftermarket clutches won't come near that.
Good luck. You will catch up with me pretty soon as far as mileage goes. I'm taking delivery of the Smart in a month from now, and will transfer 30% of my mileage to the little new car.
11-15-2005, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sauceman
I definitely recommend you this. As for the clutch, for the usage you do, stick to OEM! They are good, dependable and durable. Aftermarket clutches won't come near that.
11-15-2005, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by xizor
I believe someone said the Exedy flywheel wouldn't work w/ the OEM clutch, I suggest double checking w/ Comptech that there's does work w/ the OEM
Originally Posted by kendroz
Greetings!!
I just in the middle of changing my clutch at the acura shop. I receive a call today that the kit I installing cannot fit. My kit is Exedy #08806 and we found that it will not fit the oem flywheel . I just bought the Exedy #HF02 flywheel to make it fit. The actual pressure plate is smaller that the oem. So I need to wait until monday to finish the install.
What can I expect when using a ligther flywheel??
I later found that Daikin just release the oem kit HCK1010.
I let you know the final chapter of this thing.
Thanks to all
I just in the middle of changing my clutch at the acura shop. I receive a call today that the kit I installing cannot fit. My kit is Exedy #08806 and we found that it will not fit the oem flywheel
. I just bought the Exedy #HF02 flywheel to make it fit. The actual pressure plate is smaller that the oem. So I need to wait until monday to finish the install. What can I expect when using a ligther flywheel??
I later found that Daikin just release the oem kit HCK1010.
I let you know the final chapter of this thing.
Thanks to all
03-13-2006, 07:57 PM
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my tranny just took a shitter too...6mt...i started hearing a clunk just like roger, than it got louder as i slowed...pretty soon i couldnt even move forward, just a bad grind in reverse...when i tried to go forward, it would lean forward than thrust back as if juggernaut was shaking the car...its in the shop as we speek...2004 with 76000 km...btw this all happened within 5 mins...BS
03-13-2006, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TSeXy
my tranny just took a shitter too...6mt...i started hearing a clunk just like roger, than it got louder as i slowed...pretty soon i couldnt even move forward, just a bad grind in reverse...when i tried to go forward, it would lean forward than thrust back as if juggernaut was shaking the car...its in the shop as we speek...2004 with 76000 km...btw this all happened within 5 mins...BS
Or even just finding out what your's are.
03-13-2006, 08:39 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by Eeyore
I'd be interested in comparing the last 6 digits of your VIN with Roger's.
Or even just finding out what your's are.
Or even just finding out what your's are.
03-14-2006, 08:05 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by fdl
Tsexy, this will be covered by the powertrain warranty right?
Unless its clutch related I don't see why not. Tsexy, I'd be interested to know your VIN as well. And the dealer you plan to bring this to.
I don't think we've had any AT failures thus far. Maybe 1. This is what the 6th MT failure? Still a good percentage, but still.
03-14-2006, 10:09 PM
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sorry i just got in, didnt grab the vin...my car has been towed to acura sherway since that was the closest dealer to the incident...they are still investigating...powertrain is 5/100000 clutch is 3/60000 - not disc obviously
03-15-2006, 07:10 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by TSeXy
sorry i just got in, didnt grab the vin...my car has been towed to acura sherway since that was the closest dealer to the incident...they are still investigating...powertrain is 5/100000 clutch is 3/60000 - not disc obviously
Hopefully everything works out for you with minimal or no cost to you.
03-15-2006, 10:16 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by joerockt
OH no, 2 whole ppl have an problem While it hardly widespread I think we've seen more MT failures on this board. What that means, probly nothing.
03-15-2006, 10:17 AM
#70
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Originally Posted by dom
While it hardly widespread I think we've seen more MT failures on this board. What that means, probly nothing.
Are you sure about that? I think its pretty close. But in both cases its a very low percentage.
03-15-2006, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by joerockt
OH no, 2 whole ppl have an problem A failed transmision is rather serious and, in some cases, potentially dangerous. Not to mention expensive, if out of warranty. I do hope these are statistical outliers.
Now why don't you go run along and troll around your favorite rattle & vibrator threads or something ...
03-15-2006, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by gdcwatt
So, 50% of the cars that I've read about here (that's only two cars) have cracked transmission casings. Reputedly, the TSX is the 1st Honda/Acura with the magnesium casing, probably a foreshadow of things to come. Could it be argued that perhaps the 7lb weight saving (on a 3250lb car!!) was worth the expense or, in your case, the reliability?
I'm still debating the BMW 323i vs TSX, with no new car needed before April, but when my wife goes in to test drive the TSX, I will ask about the "reports" I've heard about this issue. In Mr. Honda's biography, I got the impression that he would have been all over something like this - and on your side. How often has this kind of thing happened, because there can't be too many higher-mileage TSX's around? Honda should WANT to look at that tranny, for R&D purposes, give you a new one, and say, "Thanks."
I'm still debating the BMW 323i vs TSX, with no new car needed before April, but when my wife goes in to test drive the TSX, I will ask about the "reports" I've heard about this issue. In Mr. Honda's biography, I got the impression that he would have been all over something like this - and on your side. How often has this kind of thing happened, because there can't be too many higher-mileage TSX's around? Honda should WANT to look at that tranny, for R&D purposes, give you a new one, and say, "Thanks."
No, not the first Honda with a Magnesium case. I am pretty sure my S2000 has one.
03-15-2006, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by curls
VIN should be on your insurance papers and ownership, too.
Hopefully everything works out for you with minimal or no cost to you.
Hopefully everything works out for you with minimal or no cost to you.
03-15-2006, 10:37 PM
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The engineer in me was initially concerned when hearing about cast magnesium AZ91D being more widely used due to its noise damper ability, weight savings, and greater design flexibility in wall thicknesses when compared to the traditional 380/383/384 cast aluminums used in automotive applications.
Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has an extensive write-up about the whole cast aluminum vs. cast magnesium dillema:
http://www.intermet.com/resource/ima...er%20astm'
When compared to 383 cast aluminum, magnesium has a lower tensile strength. I'd be interested to know the exact failure mode of the case. My gut tells me that the fatigue cycles combined with the heat of the casing cased the failure. If this is true, we could expect more failures in the future as higher miles pile on.
The likelyhood of a "bad batch" with porosity present in the casings is extremely low due to many of the widely used detection methods available.
Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has an extensive write-up about the whole cast aluminum vs. cast magnesium dillema:
http://www.intermet.com/resource/ima...er%20astm'
When compared to 383 cast aluminum, magnesium has a lower tensile strength. I'd be interested to know the exact failure mode of the case. My gut tells me that the fatigue cycles combined with the heat of the casing cased the failure. If this is true, we could expect more failures in the future as higher miles pile on.
The likelyhood of a "bad batch" with porosity present in the casings is extremely low due to many of the widely used detection methods available.
06-19-2006, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Black_6spd
Yeah -- but didn't you install the 5.0 final drive, exedy clutch/flywheel combo, and LSD?
from your other posts it sounds like you've done some extensive mods to the drivetrain and beat on it
