sean415

Hi all,

A few months ago (Feb 28) I purchaced with my fiance 2 TSX's from Marin Acura in the Bay Area. I decided to splurge a bit and get the navi (great toy!), all seemed ok until.....

At around 1000 miles I noticed a buzzing sound coming form the speakers while closing the doors the coninsided with the dome lights fading. I perfomed various tests with and without the key in various positions. All resulted in the fading buzzing sound while the from dome light faded!!! I tested to see if this was the case with my fiance's non-navi tsx, she didn't have the same problem! Thankfully!

Well, I mentioned it to my dealership, in passing while at the their "new car owners' workshop" and agreed to bring it in as soon as work allowed. On Saturday 5/1 , I brought my car in and planned to have it checked out, the rattles addressed and have the oil changed. The car had approx. 1800 miles on it. They gave me a loaner for the rest of the day and said they would call me later that day.

At 4:30 they called back and said that they couldn't isolate the problem and would like to check it out for a few days... I unhappily agreed and kept the loaner.

Well, it is not 5/15, two weeks have passed and they have not been able to isolate the problem yet. They have replaced a "multiplexor" unit, and checked the wiring, and still nothing. They said they have not seen this problem before and will have to write an "engineering" paper on the issue. They are hoping to have the problem fixed this week but I am doubtfull....

So far they have not been very proactive, I usually have to call them, when the say they will call me by X time, and generally don't seem to be "motivated" to get this done.

At this point I am starting to get pissed, This is a BRAND NEW CAR!!! It is going on 3weeks in service and still no clue as to what's wrong!

Does anyone else have any ideas on what to do next? I have not talked to the GM yet (just the service manager) or ACURA general services. Does anyone know the details of the lemon law (or if this applies yet)? At what point should I escalate this?

Thank you for your advice (in advance)
Sean
Sdutta415@aol.com

slo007

http://caag.state.ca.us/consumers/general/lemon.htm

>> The "Lemon Law" presumes that a manufacturer has had a reasonable number of attempts to repair the vehicle if either (1) The same problem results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the problem has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (2) The same problem has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the problem as provided in the warranty or owner's manual or (3) The vehicle is out of service because of the repair of any number of problems by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 days since delivery of the vehicle.

Another two weeks and you can demand a new one. Or a refund.

You may have to get a lawyer. Since you'll have a really good case in 2 weeks. I recommend saving all the paperwork, getting everything on paper, and start contacting Acura (by phone and snail mail). Send copies to local Better Business Bureau.

What else... instead of calling them. Pass by daily and ask for a status on your car. Hopefully, they'll be bugged enough to fix it sooner.

sean415

Thx slo007,

This is exactly the info I was looking for!!!

I hope that they will find the problem and correct it, but I am also wary of having the same car if they are going to take it apart to find that problem! But I guess we'll see what happens...

That would be nice... a brand new "problem free" car!, but with my luck they will return it in 29 days. Good to know that they will be liable after a certain amount of time though!

I will start drafting a letter to send Monday and I will call Acura services as well.

Thank you again!
Sean

To everyone else... listen to your speakers when you get in your car and the lights fades!

Zapata

yea seems this might be an issues as acura starts to couple signals in groups of wires so you have functionality like the all the lights dimming at once etc.,

sean415

Well,

Just thought I would post an update on the buzzing problem coming from the speakers as the from dome lights fade....

It seems as if replacing the "multiplexor" didn't work(after two tries)... Acura tech line has suggested another fix now. The new plan is to replace the sub harness behind multiplexor and stereo.
Now they are saying that they HAVE seen this in other parts of the country. (they said this was an isolated incendent before--- "engineering paper worthy").

We literally did not hear from the service manager for 6 days straight (Friday to Thursday evening) Even after he promised to call with news the next day (Saturday). We left mesages to have him call back twice and were ignored. He is definately dodging us...

The latest message estimate is by the end of this week which I can only assume is Saturday, but I will not hold my breath!

I am definately taking names and notes.... Will be contacting Acura services today and transfering all phone messages to MP3's for further evidence. So much for their "Prestige award!

Sorry for venting! Just sux to have a brand new car spend almost a month in service!

But if you have a Navi - check this problem out! (since it is not an isolated problem anymore!

Peace,
Sean

taewlee

when you leave your car in service so long, do they give you a loaner car to drive around for that long too?

sean415

Hi all,

Just wanted to update again.... It has now been 25 days in service for my CG/Navi. I am suppose to get a call today in order to pick it up... however I have not heard anything yet (it is almost 12:00pm right now)

So far I have contacted the state attorney who refered me to the BBB I have also contacted Celeste at Acura services... I also have e-mailed the Marin Acura GM, customer realations mgr, and sales mgr. Just to cover my bases...

The BBB advsised me to keep records and wait till the 30 day deadline for the lemon law. Acura services advised me to wait till today to see if they can meet there own deadline (I am not holding my breath, they didn't have it completely "in" as of yesterday)



Well, I am not exactly hopeful, but I hope that Acura services might be able to help (with the lemon law as motivation)

Wish me luck!

Shaun

BTW - i did get a loaner, but it seems to have the same feedback problem forom the speakers when you accelerate.... You would think they woudl take better care of their own cars!!! LOL

503TSX

Sean, I noticed the same thing that you have. I'm actually going to try the grounding wire kits and see if that makes a difference. Very interesting that it is very possible that is coming from a small secondary amp that is powering on. There is about .2ohm resistance from neg terminal to body, and .3ohm from body to engine.... =oP I don't think they use good grounding cables, because my speaker cables read 0 ohm. hmmm... darned cheap wires....

jiggaman

sorry to hear about your struggles bro.

sean415

Hey all,

I got the car back today... as usual I was unimpressed with the service dept. They said that my car was freshly detailed and ready to go; so I go to the car and I find a layer of dust and scratches all over the bumper and the driver's door.

It took every ounce of restraint not to go postal. I am sure they could tell that I was not amused!

To make things worse they lost my CD that were in the original CD player. I waited an extra hour and a half while they took care of the detailing (only "spot" detailing), and while they looked for the cd's. I made sure that the service director "chad" that I was not satisfied, but he just looked perplexed . Great service!

Anyways, I am going to go over the car with a fine tooth comb to see if there are any other problems. I will keep you informed..

As far as what they did to fix the problem.... they replaced the sub-harness behind the multuplexor. Acura is now supposedly aware of this problem... So far I cannot hear any feedback from the speakers... This is the prescribed "fix" by Acura tech-line. It does not involve any "splicing" just a new plug in the new harness (so they say). Might try this before a kit, unless you are able to rewire the whole mess with quility wires! Good luck!

Thanks for the support!



Peace,
Shaun

slo007

Sounds like they dodged the bullet at the last second. Hope your car is fixed for good!

I've been noticing some crackling coming from the left tweeter lately, but I have an amp and speaker install; so hopefully the noise will go away as soon as I get a line driver installed. If it's an OEM adaptor problem, they will never cover it because they'll just blame the aftermarket audio setup. :P

sean415

Hey there all,

ARGH!!!!! Got a chance to thorughly test out the car.... Well, wouldn't you know it, the SAME proble still exsists! (I guess the three techs that tested it and even the district Acura rep were all deaf at the same time!) The pitch varies but it is definatley the same sound at the same time!

The same problem exsists when the lights fade! Not to mention that when I picked up the car I learned that they had indeed replaced the Radio/Cd head unit, they didn't list this as one of the part replaced. (They had to retrieve the CD's from the old unit when I picked it up). I called the GM on it and she quickly changed the subject admitting that they had. NICE!!!

Too make matters worse the car is now giving feedback now while I am driving intermittantly! (I guess in the process of pulling out the wires to find the problem the tech ungrounded something.) It is related to acceleration, but does not always appear when accelearting. It is definately engine noise! just like on the loaner i recieved!

On top of that, when I got there I was appologized to by the service MGR for the lack of comunitcation during the previous weeks. Right before that he mentioned that the car was prepped "looked beautiful" that he inspected it thourughly to make sure it was ready.

When I got outside to take delivery of the vehicle, and from 10ft away (in the shade) I find two rather large 6inch SERIES of NEW scratches on the bumper and driver side door. I guess "completely inspected" is open to interpretation!

I later noticed the interior of the car was "not clean", (preexsisteing coffee stains on center counsel and new "shinny stuff" stains on the glove compartment, still exsisted, all season florr mats had a sticky substance on them as well as dirt from heavy traffic. AND BEST OF ALL SWIRL marks on the hood and roof from a sub par detail job.

I didn't notice the last two problems until I got it home completely. You see I was kept waiting while the detailer "spot buffed" the scratches out, then made me wait again while they tried to locate my CD's from the old head unit. (I called and hour and 30 minutes before hand to request that this was done so I could just pick it up. To which they answered "it will be ready" In all, I was there for an extra hour just waiting for them to take care of the "ooopsies".

Well, I have contacted Acura services and the GM again, and it hopefully seems like there might be a light at the end of the tunnel. The GM said that if the problem is demonstrated to the Acura district rep (hopefully next week)again, he can make the call on whether to replace the car or not. (she definately made me feel as though I was not being truthful, by saying that this problem was resolved at the service center, and that I would have to PROVE it again).

Acura services were a bit better in the professionalism and manner. They said that the dealership can do anything they wanted as far as replacing the vehicle before the lemon law was an issue (a issue that the GM deines completely) in the interest of customer service. I guess they just don't want to "eat" the cost.

However , if they "drop the ball" that National Acura can proceed with buyback procedures through the California State Attorney Generals office and the BBB under the lemon law. At least that give me hope that Acura might be BIGGER than the Ego's at Marin Acura.

Well, that is it for now, I will keep you all posted!

Thanks again for letting me vent! and the support!

Peace
Shaun

can

sean415

Hello ALL,

Acura SERVICE SUX!!!!

Well here is the latest installment of Marin Acura & National Acura BS... Please forgive I am so pissed off I will just post a portion of my TSX log so that I don't have to "re-live" this nightmare...

This is long excerpt:

Yolanda (my finance) had an opportunity to speak with Debi Stevens (GM) at about the same time I was talking to Charlie. (YOLANDA’s COMMENTS Below)

Debi (Marin Acura GM) said that the car would need to come back so that Rick, a national ACURA representative, can hear the noise. She said Rick is the only person who can decide what to do with the car and Marin Acura cannot do anything without Rick’s go-ahead. Rick can decide to either replace the car or attempt to fix the car again. I told her that replacing the car at this point is the only satisfactory solution for us and informed her that if the car were put into repairs again, we would simultaneously be speaking with the BBB, etc. I reminded Debi that the car is only 5 days from qualifying for the Lemon Law 30-day statute and that not only was the car not repaired over the past 25 consecutive days in service, but that the car was returned unprepared (scratches, swirl marks, dirty floor mats, dirty/dusty interior, etc). She reiterated several times that her hands were tied and that it was up to Rick to decide what to do with the car. As for the dirty car, she apologized and said that we should not worry about that because it is a small problem compared to the car not being fixed (I agreed, but explained how it made matters worse). I told her that Shaun would call her on Friday to offer some convenient meeting times so she could coordinate a meeting with Rick.

Meeting was scheduled for Thursday the 3rd at 10:30 am.

Thursday 6-3 @10:30 am – I arrived at Marin Acura, spoke to Dean and Chad. They both accompanied me to the car and listened for the sound. I tested for the sound many times, and I did personally hear the sound several times. They however, did not. I pointed it out to them as it was happening, but they still insisted that they heard nothing. Rick Brown (the Acura Rep) joined us, and also insisted he heard nothing. I again pointed it out as it was happening, but he did not acknowledge it. There were several times that the sound could be heard at least at the levels when they acknowledged it on May 1st. I tried to reason with Rick concerning the likelihood that his hearing was not sensitive enough to pick up the sound; he conceded that that might be so, but he said he was the one that would have to hear the sound in order to take further action. I told him that other people could hear the sound (Yolanda, GG installers, independant techs etc…), and that the problem was diagnosed and attempted to be repaired by Marin Acura, to reaffirm that the problem was not a “figment of my imagination”… I asked that if I was to bring it to another Acura dealer and they were to hear it, if National Acura would do something then… HE said that any new problem would be directed to him again, and that he has already listened to my vehicle! (Basically stating that he would not re-visit the problem no matter who heard the sound from Acura). I grudgingly (but politely) thanked him for his time and let him know that I would be seeking arbitration thought the BBB, and “Channel 7”.

11 :30 - I left the dealership and pulled over at the neighboring shopping mall to call Acura Services, I spoke to Bryan and he updated my case file and logged my complaint that Rick Brown (district MGR) sounded like he would not entertain (or let any Acura tech) any other complains about the buzzing sounds from my speakers. I told them that I would be contacting the BBB and he agreed that would be the only way to further this matter. He agreed that he thought that Rick would have the last say at the dealership level. Only the BBB arbitration process would continue this issue.

I returned home and contacted the BBB and started a claim under the lemon law. My case number is XXXXXXXX (case mgr. Linda Fernandez --- ext.210). I spoke with Chris, who helped file the case and answered my questions concerning arbitration, getting a lawyer, and what 3rd party to demonstrate the problem to. He asked me to put together all correspondence and service bills. Linda would be calling in about a week to review my case with me.

Note – I have also compiled all the voice messages I received into MP3 format to further illustrate was said by the technicians at Marin Acura. These are available upon request.
5:10 – I write to Channel 7 hoping that they might be able to help force Acura to stand behind their product…. (Keeping fingers crossed)

Well that is it in nutshell. I am just about ready to explode!!!! THIS CAR IS ONLY 3 MONTHS OLD! I reported the problem at under 1000 miles, I worked by their rules for 25 days, and now to save themselves from having to replace the car... they have all agreed to deny hearing a problem that the acknowleged when it first came in... The sound is as loud as it ever was, and they deemed it nessary to replace part three times; and told me that this is a problem that they had seen in other parts of the country. NOW they say they can't hear it! Not to mention now I have buzzing from the engine and "crackling auto door locks" all signs of a grounding problem!!! :sqntfawk:

Taking DEEP breath!....

IT's on NOW!!! I may not be able to do any thing through Acura channels but I am sure as hell going to make a issue to the local media and BBB.

ACURA service needs to take a lesson in Customer service! EVEN AT THE TOP!!!

Sean

SpoonTsx

sean415,

Dude, I feel your pain. I picked up my car on 05/12/04 and right off the bat the car was not align or something. I believe something. On 05/14/04 Creaking or Tapping coming from the windshields or pillars. On 05/15/04 called and told them about the alignment and tapping. On 05/17/04 I took my car there for the service manager to test it. He confirmed the car is drifting to the left and the creaking from the windshield. He set an appointment 05/26/04 because they had no loaners available. Remind you I had the car less then a week and they won't take care of it on the spot. Brought the car in that day and pick up the next day and was informed over the fone that the its aligned and they know about the creaking winshield but needed to wait for a bullitien because they do not know how to fix or where to fix. When i picked up the car the service was closed but there was something to give my my key and guess what...on the service sheet mention fixing the alignment, but can not duplicate the creaking. I'm like WTF!!??? They call saying they know its there but wrote it up like I was lying or i was retard...Guess what the car still drifts. On 05/29/04 I went back on a sat, which i have better things to do then go chill out at a dealership, went to see the GM. Explain the problem about this is brand new car and that alignment should not be off and should not off again after it was aligned. He personally went out for a test drive with me and notice the creaking and alignment is still off...So he said blah blah blah..things happen....blah blah blah. He promise he'll fix both issues and gave me a loaner on the spot. Since it was a long weekend they did not start on my car until 06/01/04 tuesday. They called me and told me that they are still working on it. 06/02/04 got a call telling i could pick up the car and explain they don't know what to do with the creaking and they lubed it and hopfully it help and the alignment should be a little better then before. I was like HUH!!?? a little better!!?? WTF!!?? Its a brand new car, it should be perfect. Service guy explain to me that the did all they can to aligned it to factory spec. The car will drift very slightly and a tab more when accelerated. So I picke up the car that day dissappointed as F*ck looking for the GM and he was gone for the day. 06/03/04 called looking for the gm and it was his day off. 06/04/04 (Today) and he picked up. I explained to him that the car still drifts and the creaking is there. He told me that he don't know what to do with the tapping from the windshield and he told me went out with the sevice manager and said the car went straight and he never these issues with any other TSX. I was like great!!! then u sold me a defective car and replacing should make evryone happy. Of course he said no. I've already contacted Acura c.s. I've been driving for almost 15 years now. Learn to drive on a 89 civic, then got a hand me down 91 accord(sold), then hand me down 95 maxima(sold), bought my own car 98 prelude sh(sold), fell in love with 00 S2000(sold), needed a car that could drive all year round 02 civic si(still own) want luxury and problem free 04 Tsx. I would say that i know how a car should feel on the road and why would i make up something like this when the car is like three weeks old and only 1000 (400mile going and coming back from the dealer) on it? I hope Acura better not dick me and force me to go through the lemon system. Because if they do I will not take another Tsx. I want the full refund and it'll be the last Honda or Acura I will buy. I migh mention that i owned 96 cbr 600 and 98 cbr 900 before too..Honda better not screw me here. Sorry for the long post. Needed to vent. :'(

tony4311

acura service doesn't suck just that dealership. My dealership has great service.

sean415

Hey there all,

Sorry for the long break in between posting...

It seems as there might be a light at the end of the tunnel... I have started BBB proceedings and have been contacted several times by Honda BBB division (different then Acura services). The BBB rep that has taken my case has been very helpful and has told me a bit about how the system works. At htis point I am hoping for a buyback and resale. I am however going to meet one last time with a Honda representative on the 6th at Concord Acura. He will again listen to see if he can hear the noise coming from the speakers... (although he has a vested interest not to.) I am hopefull that he will be able to hear the sound this time.

If he doesn't though I am prepared. I still have Acura Techs on MP3 saying that the problem WAS audible and changing in pitch. I also have an independent installer that will back me up on the feed back sound. (installer of 15 yrs.). The ordeal has been documented day by day w/ comments as well.

I have about 2700 miles on the car so far. I have read the BBB pamphlet and see that they will deduct an amount for the time the car was used up to the time it was brought in for the problem. (milage/12000 * price of the car).

My advice to all with problems... follow through with your complain to the BBB, at very least that will get ACURA's FULL attention and get them to address the issues at the factory. At least the dealership is now OUT of the loop. WHEW!

MARIN ACURA is a hands off dealership! I have not heard one peep from them since I picked up my car. I think they were secretly hoping that I would pass the problem off to American Honda so they wouldn't have to "eat" the cost of replacement and acknowlage their inability to find the problem. Funny since I now see their commercals on TV about how they go the extra "mile" to make sure the customer is taken care of!

LOL B.S.

(If Acura takes responsibility for their actions I will not lump them in with the dealer!)

Well I will let you know where it goes from the 6th.

Peace!
Shaun

scheißterhöffer

I don't know what you paid, but I'll assume MSRP for the purposes of this question. Using the fomula you specified, they will deduct 2700/12000*29000 from the price of the car? That's $6,525. This is a buyback? Meaning they'll give you $22,475 for the car? Could you not sell it yourself privately (or to a dealer for that matter) for alot more than that? Seems like you're getting screwed there. And if I understand your problem correctly, it's that the speakers buzz *while* the dome lights are fading. That's only a couple seconds at a time right? And I understand that it's quiet enough that its audibility is in question by some? I've got to think the dealer buys the thing back at $22,475 and sells it to some other person who doesn't notice the buzz, or doesn't care, for alot more than $22,475. They should be enthused about this deal. I hope I'm missing something, because that doesn't seem right. At that price, I'd think the dealer would want more lemon buybacks. Please explain if I'm missing something.

yogigemini

The formula was a little wrong... it's - milage/120000 * price of car ...not milage/12000. He missed a zero. Using the correct equation, here's what it looks like for the buy back: 2700/120000 * 29000 = $652.50. This makes much more sense.

SAZABI

don't worry... mine has been 2 months or more.... still not fixed LOL

dcrc

Hate to see you having problems.

Did they try a new battery or alternator? A battery in itself is basically a filter.

Does it do it both with the car running and when the engine is off?

If it only does it with the car running it could be a deffective alternator.

If you have the tools and the skills try swapping the batteries between the two cars and see if it goes away.

I would think it would have to be one of these:


Battery
Alternator
Bad Ground

iamhomin

Sean, check your PM.

sean415

thx for the advice dcrc... I don't think they addressed any of those possibilities, (although they seem to be logical choices) , but then nothing that they have done so far seems to follow reason. They replaced the CD head unit, a wire harness, a "multiplexor", and tore out at least a few wires so far, as well as reassembling my dash out side the car. As a result of messing with the wiring I am now getting feedback from the engine and crackling with the door locks. When I go to Concord Acura tomarow I will mention some of the possiblities you brought up. I know very little about electrical systems, so thanks for the info!


Shaun

saury316

SO what happened?? You meet the Concord guy on the 6th? What HAPPENED????

sean415

Hey there all,

Well, we met the Acura Rep. Gary Barr. (He was much nicer and more professional than the other Rep.), anb we tested the car several times. I demonstrated the noise a few times for Gary however it was so loud outside that day he couldn't honestly hear it. It didn't help that the few time we were able to test; the sound varied in pitch (very high). He was very open to listen and did catch something one time but not very loud. He explained that the perhaps the sound was coming from a another wiring harness behind the NAVI.

SO.... what we ended up doing was coming to a comprimise. For the time being he said he would extend the warranty on the electrical system and setup another date to continue to look at the problem. He offered a $$$ settlement for my trouble and offered to replace my tire as well (I punctured it the week before), in addition he also mentioned that I would still be able to go the BBB route, (if the problem got as bad as when I took it in for the first time) after the next check up.

I have to be honest, it was definately harder to reproduce the sound this time... (of course! just when you need it to be loud it is quiet!) But, we did get to test other NAVI TSX's to compare. It turns out that there is a small similar sound that we heard in both cars. It is not as pronounced as ours was but a tiny humming was audible in NAVI TSX's as the lights fade with engine on. Again he did not catch it, attributing this to normal electric sounds, but we were able to hear it.

He did again offer up the suggestion that maybe his hearing was not sensitive enough to hear the sound, but at least this time he said that ACURA would take care of the problem to MY satisfaction for the duration of ownership. This is very differnet to the last guys reaction! For the present he convinced me to go a bit further and have a different Acura dealer look at it. Concord is a very professional dealership - they have already wrote me twice and called me to make sure that I was happy with the tire change and car wash/work they did. Still waiting for a call from MARIN!!!!

Anyways that is the short version of it... I am going to put on my kit and enjoy it for a while with the knowlege that I at least have more options and no immediate time limits.

If you have specific questions, feel free to PM me.

I'll let you know if anything else develops!

Peace,
Sean

MarkPinTx

This sound lasts as long as the dome light is dimming? Not when it's on? Not when it's off?

And only when the stereo is on?

Seems like a mighty small problem to raise such a stink over. On the other hand, their handling of it seems poor.

It's a good thing arbitration is available here, because if there is any chance of a jury not hearing that noise or dismissing it as minor, you could get seriously poured out. Jurys historically dont have a lot of patience for people bitching about minor glitches in their cars. If it wont run, that's one thing . . . .

Good luck.