lvcurvs

i tried search but couldn't find what i was looking for.

What kind of bottom end mod's would you need to bring the rpm's up to an 8k redline? can the stock bottom end handle it safely?

Head mod's? would that be as simple as cams springs retainers or would it be better to swap on a dc5r head or one of the new civic si heads a la frankenstein style. i'm curious as to the flow on th k24 head compared to the others.

Curious as to how strong our motors are.

thanx!!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Primary issue is piston speeds. The K24's rather long stroke means that its piston speeds are already pretty high at redline (nearly as high as the S2000).

moda_way

Yeah, but RTR uses lightweight pistons, stronger connecting rods, better valve springs... etc etc, so it is absolutely possible to increase redline, but it would take a lot of custom work.

My advice to lvcurvs, visit the shops that race these cars. You'll find out that right now you are getting reliability. Per Hondata, after 7600, power and torque start to dip off.

lvcurvs

hmm, well, i'll be at GT live at Vir on the 28th where the spoon euro r will be but other then that i have NEVER, in person, seen a race ready or even a highly modded TSX. I've never even seen the RTR ones race. Just have seen picts.

How feasible is it to swap over a k20 turbo kit to the k24 or swapping over a k20 head then the turbo kit. I'd assume you'd need a diff. manifold and intercooler piping.
Do they make a turbo kit for the k24? I kind of feel that with the lack of rpm's, a decent sized turbo would be ineffeciant (sp?) ha, a vortech or procharger would be friggen sweet but again, the power is proportianal(sp?) to the rpm's on thos things.

Black_6spd

While swapping the type-r cam sounds like a good idea, the 2006 TSX intake cam is actually more agressive.

The majority of K24's are running either the Toda N2's or even the IPS setup. Hytech has a Grand Am setup that comes with all the parts necessary. They also have a full build which includes pistons, rods, ITB's, etc that will give over 300+ HP at the wheels.

Check out the AZ classifieds under a SN "Heeltoe."

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Your choices are severely limited by the tuning options available.

Hondata has not yet released a k-pro for the TSX motor. You can run a hybrid K20/K24 dual ECU setup via a harness similar to how Hytech does it for their setup, but it's messy and expensive.

If you're looking for forced induction and big power, the Comptech supercharger is pretty much your only sure bet unless you're ready to scrape together $15k for the full Hytech setup.

moda_way

Big motors come at a price and you're right, our motors biggest limitation is tuning and not parts. If you think about it, it would easier to lighten and tune the chasis on a TL Type-S than it would be to get our motor in the 300 hp range.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

True, though there is an innate satisfaction in taking a 4-cylinder motor and wringing it to within an inch of its life that chassis tuning a larger 6-cylinder vehicle just cannot provide.

That said, what I would love to do is take an old Integra hatch and shoehorn in a 3.2L Legend Type-II motor into where the back seats used to be to make an MR frankenstein car. If only I had the time and money...

lvcurvs

True, tuning is limited. I'm new to the tsx and somewhat new to k series and i've already noticed the amount of support, although growing, is still really nothing
Basically it seems that as of now, using off the shelf parts, to hit 300whp, i'd have to go with hytech or supercharge it, i/h/e, hondata, cams, pistons rods etc.. basically build it or go with a full stand alone system and some good tuning so that i can cut cost on the parts but in the end i'd make up the diff. for the stand alone and then tuning which could cost more.

What about switching to a k20 motor? kind of like a 3sgte into a Supra. Apples to oranges but i think you know what i mean. K20 has a lot of support and a lot of potential; just getting the stuff to fit the tsx would be the question (mainly piping, wiring etc..) Lack of torque could be made up for by tuning, parts etc.. and the support could rocket it way past what a tsx could do at this point in time. Plus, probably not by much, but it would bring some weight off the front end. Am i smoking crack here or this seem like it would work?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

You could certainly try it, but you'll still have the problems with running the TSX gauges and you'll lose VSA in the process. There are a lot of factors with the engine swap and that you would have to juggle so make sure you think it through thoroughly before you embark down this path. I'm sure it is certainly possible, but the difficulties involved might make it not worth the effort.

lvcurvs

tried to edit but apparently it was longer then 5 minutes.

I'm seeing all these k24/k20 swaps going into EG's and Ek's and i'm wondering why can't we take advantage of this swap? If our head flows as well as the k20 heads, then all we need is a basic cleaning up/ strengthening of what we already have (k24 bottom end already and same potential cylinder head) Tuning could be done by kpro, obviously with some mod's and probably loosing traction control and other unneccessaries(sp?) but that would allow us to have the same power and tuning ability as these frankensteins have. If we have to use the k20 head, then tech. even better because the parts support is there. Some mod's to the parts would prob. have to be made but it's a small price to pay when in the end you have more resources as well as more potential.

Now, this is for right now. I'm sure the k24 is going to get developed quite quickly and then at that point we won't have these problems.

lvcurvs

The guages would be a small problem as well as vsa being gone. ha, prob lose a.b.s as well as Ac and maybe ps. As far as disadvantages, i think, if somebody did this, the advantages would out way the disadvantages. more so in a race setting rather on street but hey.. Again, thats as of right now. The k24 i bet will be developed very quickly just like everybody caught on to the k series when it first came out.

Black_6spd

Still nothing? I think you have to spend time off these boards.

Keep in mind many of us here have somewhat "graduated" the hardcore racing scene and bought the TSX for the opposite reason.

The K24 has endless options out there now. Just check out www.k20a.org or clubrsx.com. You'll see guys who are putting down over 250 whp on a daily driver. There's one guy local to me that's running the Brian Crower stroker kit. On the other hand, over here, simply getting a race header is "hard core." We're much older here....

While the thought of converting my throttle body to a cable version and losing some of the other functions came to mind, I really had to re-evaluate why I bought the TSX. After doing so, I came back to my senses.

In short, just about everything that can be done to a hatch can be done to the TSX. It just comes down to whether or not you want to do it to a $28k platform that weights over 3,000 lbs.

rmpage

What it boils down to is the only people willing to do this are racing teams who gut, cage, and completely rebuild a TSX specifically for the track, e.g. RTR. Its $~30k price and "young professional" target market make it inherently unfriendly to enthusiasts. Likewise, enthusiast market is very small, resulting in an aftermarket is going to be similarly limited. Big performance companies don't stand to make as much money in the TSX aftermarket, so they don't tread there as often. A lot of the driveline stuff for this car exists simply because of its similarities to the RSX and Si drivelines, so we get the spillover. If it weren't for that there would be even less.

lvcurvs

Black_6spd- I totally agree. I bought my TSX because of the comforts and the solid platform. My S2000, was not fun, let me rephrase that, was not comfortable to drive everyday. It was the most fun car i've ever had but not very comfortable.
I got tired of getting beat up in cars a while ago.
But what I'm saying, in a round about way, is that the potential of the TSX has not been developed fully yet. We all know what a RSX can and can't do and CRX's and civics etc.. and, i'll prob. get flamed for saying this, but isn't the RSX based on a jdm van chassis (Honda stream, I think) so how much can it really handle unless that's just a bad ass van. As far as the weight, if your in a designated class, everybody has to meet some sort of weight so the 3000lbs won't be as big a factor. Again, the mod's i was suggesting are more race oriented rather then street. Iwill not be modding my car even close to this extent but if i had a spare, i would do it in a heartbeat just for the simple fact of playing with something not that many people play with.
As far as modding a $28000+ car, it's no diff. then the infiniti's, lexus's, supra's etc... Some of them are way more $$ then our cars, and some are more sport oriented but it's the potential of the entire platform that is appealing. Power, styling, comfort, stealthyness(sp? and i don't think that's a word) How sweet would it be to have a one off TSX that nobody else has put together and your ahead of say RTR and other high end company's out there and you're just some guy off the street? That's how i see it. I've modded accords, 2nd through 5th gen preludes, integra's, crx's, new Gto's, s2000's etc... Modifying vehicles, to me is the best part of a car. Making it yours, making it better then somebody elses with less money etc... all those reasons make it fun, if not profitable, then that one time, you get a thumbs up, catching somebody do a double take cause they don't know what kind of car it is, or not believing you about something then seeing thier jaw drop when they see it fully functional on the car. I buy a car, but not just to drive, hell i spend so much time in it, minus well make it fun. I'm sure you guys agree with me on that and i'm sure we all agree that it's fun to an extent.

I'm not arguing with you in any way, i totally agree that people buy it for more of the whole package rather then buying it to modify/race. I was just curious if the mods i was talking about would be a viable option to max out the platform so we all have a better base as to what the car can and cannot do. The more info. the better. even if it's on a street car.
rmpage-nice avatar by the way, ha!, As i see it, the fact that the aftermarket is a bit limited for our cars, is great because it makes every little thing you do to the car diff. Any custom mod etc.. you can't just go buy it. Like these guys are doing with the led tail lights. They are very good looking (the lights not the guys, no offese to you all) but you can't just go to apc or tyc and be like, hey, i'd like to order these tail lights please, the ones on page 10 of your catalogue.
Anyways, I agree with both of you

aaronng

Friend just replaced the pistons, rods crank and bolts of his k24a bottom end. He got everything replaced and coupled it to a k20a head. Now it revs to 8500rpm. It's pretty smooth and pulls hard. Not cheap though. The engine + internal work cost him about US$12,000

lvcurvs

Whats the reason he went with the k20 head? was that a cheaper option then building the k24 head?

aaronng

The ports on the k20 head is bigger than the k24.

With regards to the TSX, if you don't mind losing the instruments, A/C, VSA and maybe ABS, then just get a cabled throttle from the k20 (OEM or aftermarket). You can then use the kpro with a k20a ecu and go turbo.

lvcurvs

Can you put on the k20 head with the k24 throttle body?

aaronng

Only if you use the k24 intake manifold on the k20 head, which makes it a little silly since you'll need the shorter k20 intake manifold to support the high RPM that you get with the k20 head's cams and flow characteristics.

lvcurvs

right, it kindof defeats the purpose.

aaronng

Hmm, you could get a sandwich adapter made up that goes in between the electronic throttle and the intake manifold.

lvcurvs

Well i found out that apparently our head only flows 10 less then the rsx head so by building it, it would be almost the same. 10 on the street and on a dd won't make any diff. Basically i was told to get the IPS cams and springs and retainers and then build up the bottom end a little. He has a tsx k motor in his hatch that my shop built and it's a wicked fast little f*cker. def. make the TSX move though

aaronng

His hatch is fast because it is light. There are a few EG k24a hatches running around here with almost stock 140kW engines and they are fast (13s) because they are light. The same engine in the TSX is slow. But yeah, build the bottom end up to survive 8500rpm and the engine will make good power, even if the filling effeciency is reduced at high RPM.

lvcurvs

no doubt because it's light but i'm saying, with his mods in the tsx, it would still make it move. ha, he has a 5 spd trans w/ a quaife. He nailed 2nd and it hooked up and almost launched us across the lane on the uneven pavement. That damn thing was pulling to 8300 and never skipped a beat how hard it was pulling. He has cams, valve train, i/h/e, pulleys rods, pistons etc..
I've been seriously looking at the hondata reflash, and i/h/e for now. Simple, cheap and effective for a daily driver. Seems a full rebuild right now wouldn't be very practical. Especially with the winter coming up and i'm going to be using the car to take snowboarding trips in. Got to buy a snowboard rack here shortly.

godfather2

you ever consider the HyTech setup? it should be more feasible than some of the things you've expressed interest about. check this thread out:

https://acurazine.com/forums/sponsored-sales-group-buys-10/hytech-exhaust-engine-products-tsx-available-heeltoe-366315/

nothing wrong with sqeezing the tsx for everything it's worth. good luck and keep up posted

aaronng

^^ Yeah, not worth doing such work on a daily driver that will see a good amount of miles. Keep it for your project car instead.

lvcurvs

oh man, ha, ITB's would sound so friggen sick though. Would be worth it for just the sound alone.
Building all motor is just too much. I can't afford to wring this car out to the edge.
My biggest problem I guess is trying to find a 50 50 reliability/power. I've already got struts and springs coming, having f & R sway bars made here shortly BY ADDCO , SS brake lines from Goodridge are on thier way and soon will be doing pads and rotors-(heeltoe-probably) and the typical wheel tire thing. As for the motor, i think a subtle build up, mainly reinforcing items to handle the little bit of boost that the SC puts out and making the ecu and header and all the other "smaller" items work together perfectly is my best bet right now. Ha, on the other hand, I have a shop that would love to build a custom turbo kit for it. hmm, for dd i would prefer the SC but custom one off stuff is always appealing(sp?) to me