ToyoS

Greetings! Once again I will abuse Your knowledge and hospitality
Here is the thing! I am thinking on putting limited slip differential on my Honda Accord/TSX 6MT.
As I can see, there are 2 options:
-DC5 JDM Integra LSD
-Quaife LSD

Can anybody explain if there is a difference between these 2, what are the risks od getting second hand LSD and does DC5 JDM Integra LSD require servicing. As I can see Quaife requires no servicing..

In some threads I saw some problems and issues concerning fitting LSD. Something I can avoid or...?
Thanks

godfather2

i believe cusco makes one as well

ToyoS

True, I have seen it, the vendor says same quality as Quaife. I don`t know why I favorize Quaife over every other.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

The quaife is a helical or gear type. The others you see are clutch type with replaceable discs. Although AFAIK the the JDM DC5 one is not a clutch type...can anyone confirm?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I thought all Honda OEM LSDs are helical type and no additional servicing is required other than changing the MTF. I have the JDM M2B4 tranny with LSD for my Prelude which is also a helical type.

aaronng

Honda DC5R LSD is a helical gear type like the Quaife. I have the DC5R one in my CL9, does not require servicing and you can use regular Honda/Acura MTF, unlike the Cusco clutch LSD.

The Quaife is meant to be tougher than the Honda LSD.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

aaronng, did you do anything else to the tranny while you had it apart? I'm waiting for the opportunity to change out the tall 2nd gear...

aaronng

Nope, all I did was to take out the open diff and dropped in the K20A LSD. Didn't have the other parts on hand. I also put in the Exedy 9 lbs flywheel, and 1st gear revs out so quickly that I wouldn't want to risk putting in a shorter final drive in as well because the end result would be 1st gear revving out much quicker than if you had a stock car free-revving in neutral!

Which 2nd gear can you use? Our Accord Euro has the same 1.880 2nd gear ratio as the TSX, so the only choice would be the 2.130 2nd gear from the RSX-S/Integra Type R, but I have no idea if it would fit in.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

According to the thread below, the RSX or Civic might work.

https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-performance-parts-modifications-126/type-s-r-limited-slip-differential-tsx-677361/

ToyoS

I am browsing, trying to find an DC5 used LSD on the e-bay.
What are the risks of buying a used LSD?
Perhaps it wouldn`t be such a bad idea to replace original flywheel with fidanza lighter flywheel while I am doing differential swap..?

DAYTA

IIRC, Black_6Spd swapped out 2nd-5th gears from a RSX Type-S, so I'm it definitely can be done. However, as the thread mentioned, I believe he blew out 2nd (and 3rd) gear and I don't think he ever told us how it happened. How do you guys think it happened and is there any way to prevent it? I'd be extremely interested to do this, but Black-6Spd's issue make me a bit skeptical of the longevity of swapping gears.

Also, perhaps instead of swapping 2nd/3rd gear, could we swap out for a longer 1st gear? My 1st gear revs through so quickly, it's basically useless.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Why buy a used one when you can get a new one at a good price?

http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc...age&item=10038

Too bad they are out of stock of the OEM DC5 lightweight flywheel. It's the best price I've seen.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I think Black_6Spd did briefly mention about the potential reason for the failing 2nd gear was due to his shifting habit and lack of tranny break-in (pulling out of gear before fully pressing on the clutch).

I haven't looked at the 09 TSX spec yet to see if the gear ratios are any different. I thought that was a change in the gearing but not sure.

Edit: saw the 09 spec on the 2nd gen forum.

6-speed manual

Gear Ratios (:1)

1st - 3.267
2nd - 2.040
3rd - 1.429
4th - 1.073
5th - 0.870
6th - 0.686
Reverse - 3.583
Final Drive - 4.764

Redfish

iTrader: (2)

If the gears are interchangable...it should work fine. Get new syncos to go with them.

Reminiscing on the old days:
I put a GSR tranny in my Integra LS, since the GSR tranny had much lower gearing. However, I opened up the tranny and swapped out the GSR 5th back to an LS 5th, since it was way too low for the highway. No issues.

The lower gears in the GSR tranny made the car come alive. Swapping out second on the TSX would be nice...imagine hitting the sweet spot in 2nd gear...I bet it's world of difference.

aaronng

I'd do this at the same time:
Clutch
Clutch pressure plate
Flywheel
Clutch release bearing
Check all engine mounts, replace if even slightly worn
Thicker front sway bar (if you are doing your car up for circuit racing)

ToyoS

Really great price, thanks!
But I thing that flywheel won`t for Acura TSX. Perhaps im a wrong.
I have less than 20,000 miles, I won`t change my clutch unless it required changing.

ToyoS

Altought I know it would be a good idea if I am replacing differential.

UNEVAKNO

I just installed Autotechs new Wavetrac LSD that is supposed to be an improvement over the Quaife and has a lifetime warranty. Do some research on this LSD it has a impressive parts list and is made in the USA so no long wait periods. It works great for me so far! I also changed my 2nd / 3rd gear sets with a mixture of Civic Si and 09 TSX parts. My mechanic(Honda tech) had a 2 month field day of ordering and returning gears sets / misc. parts to finally complete the project. And it is a big improvement over the stock set-up. I topped it off with BG syncromesh fluid and it is like a whole different transmission! But for guys thinking of just changing out 2nd gear that is not going to work it will need other gears to correct the ratios not to mention w/o a 3rd gear swap the 2nd gear will be too far spaced from the stock 3rd gear.Be careful getting into this project it is very expensive!

JTso

iTrader: (2)

^^
Thanks for the info! Yes, swapping the correct 2nd and 3rd gear set is a better idea. If you don't mind, could you provide an idea of the parts and labor cost to do your LSD, gears swap project?

Redfish

iTrader: (2)

Is the Wavetrac LSD an upgrade from the Civic LSD? I think I remember you having the Civic LSD in your TSX at one time, right?

hotpinoy69

It seems that all that is mentioned is changing out 2nd and 3rd gear. Has anyone changed out only 3rd gear or does it have to be 2 gears for spacing purposes?

UNEVAKNO

You definately have to swap at least 2nd/3rd gear sets on the main/countershafts. My mechanic still has all of the parts and corresponding part numbers. It was just a clusterfuck for me and him but it all came together. I can give you his contact info. when you are ready if he does not have a problem with it.I think he needs a vacation after my car! The parts (gears) without labor totalled over 2 grand and that was at his cost! The LSD cost me about a grand and I ordered it from AutoTech in Cali.

UNEVAKNO

The Wave trac is a hugh upgrade over the Civic LSD which was my 1st choice but I opt out of that and purchased the Wavetrac.

UNEVAKNO

You have to change at least 2nd/ 3rd gears for the proper gear ratios. If you change just 3rd the case probably wont even close.

Black_6spd

Wow -- I really miss my ol' "enhanced" TSX....

I wanted to chime in in regards to my 2nd gear blowing out -- It seems that not only myself but many others on experienced the dreaded 2nd gear failure with the K-series modded tranny. Many of us were simply granny shifting when the failure occurred!

Here's my theory (from a former Mechanical / Design Engineer):

The trannies were never designed to have brand new, sharp gears meshing with worn gears. Over time, normal transmission parts develop wear patterns similar to our own teeth. When you replace 1 or more parts that mate with their mainshaft or countershaft counterpart, the stresses are not distributed properly with the old wear patterns on the gear sets. This results in shearing failures like the one in my old thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...001&highlight=

Even after the tranny was rebuilt, the 2nd gear made whining sounds that made me uncomfortable. While the car was 2x more fun to drive with the better tranny, I didn't like the thought of having a failure while my then-baby son was in the car. I eventually traded her for my RL.

I hope that provides some kind of insight. If you were to replace the gear sets, I'd definately change out 2-5 to be identical to the Civic Si's ratios. This seems to be a popular setup for RSX's with a 4.7 FD as well.

Black_6spd

I forgot to mention another big downside of this mod: Speedo error. The car will log more miles on the odometer and the speedo will read about 10% higher due to the the speedo gear spinning faster.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info. It might be easier to just swap in a 09 tranny.

UNEVAKNO

You are right on the speedo, My speedometer is about 5 mph fast but thats cool the difference in performance is worth it.

UNEVAKNO

Now that was a option also and it is much more expensive.

Redfish

iTrader: (2)

? I thought the speedo would only be affected if you change the FD ratio?

Redfish

iTrader: (2)

Did you replace 2nd gear & it's countershaft gear? If you changed both, which is the only way they can possibly mesh properly, you should not have a problem.

The gears are in contact all the time, the sleeve moves to lock the gear to the shaft, when changing gears.

Mainshaft:


Countershaft:

Black_6spd

^^ You might of made me realize something. Now that I think of it, I might of had a used RSX-S 2nd on the countershaft and a newer one on the mainshaft if I remember correctly. The guy who installed it had a bunch of gearsets around (from previous tranny builds) and he might of mismatched them. One of the gearsets was from a blown RSX-S that blew out his 2nd.

He probably thought he could get away with it while charging me for the most expensive gear.

aaronng

Interesting difference between CL9s from different countries. When I had my gearbox off my AUDM CL9, the odd thing was that there wasn't a VSS coming out of the gear box! The only thing attached to the gearbox was the shifter linkage and the clutch slave cylinder! I guess our model has wheel speed sensors instead.

UNEVAKNO

My final drive is the same 4.7 but I am not sure whether the speedo is off because of the trans or the 19" rims on the car.

A Mack

Man these tranny setups sound good. I was wondering about changing gearing and adding lsd. I plan to get me a TSX in the near future. Really when I come back from basic and ait. Around the first part of next year. I want a 06. I want a nice car without breaking the bank and be able to mod it some. I thought about the Si, but that's not the car for me. I would look better in the TSX. I love the performance they both have.

I see the 09 tranny was mentioned. Does it have shorter gearing than the first gens. I also wanted to change at least the 2nd and 3rd gearing and add the Civic Si lsd or a better aftermarket lsd. Some suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Is there a gear ratio table with the 09 tranny gearing with comparisons.

A Mack

That's ok about the 09 tranny gearing ratios. Now that I look back at the postings I see the gear ratios have been posted. Still would like some suggestions.

UNEVAKNO

The 09 tranny or 1st gen gear swaps make the car faster and more fun to drive.

For 09 Honda finallt recognized the problem and changed 2nd/ 3rd gear ratios to a tighter combo very close to the Civic Si.

A Mack

Is there anyway possible to fix that problem? Like would it be possible to swap out the speedo gear for a type s gear. Also wondering if someone get the 09 tranny would that problem still remain? I'm just trying to get a good idea of what to expect.

EuroRuben97

I can honestly say that with the way the future mods are going with this car that you'll ever need anything better than an OEM LSD from a DC5 tranny.

matvey

So will the 09 TSX tranny fit the first generation cars without any problems at all? Has anyone actually tied it?

Thanks!

MBA