TSX007

Well after three weeks(ran into some problems) with my TSX in the shop, I got the call I've been waiting for. My TSX is up and running with Type R LSD installed! I'll be picking it up 4/17 so I'll let everyone know the details then. Oh by the way, the Phantom Grip was ordered as an alternate(if the LSD didn't work) and guess what? It didn't fit! The guys at the shop showed me the box it came in and it said TSX on it, but when they tried to put the phantom grip inside the original open diff it was way too big! I guess it's possible that they put the wrong part in the box, especially since someone here has it in their TSX, right?

Maxboost

So would you care to tell us what kind problems are we looking at???
i'd love to have it on my TSX too!
oh how much you spent on this mod???

fdl

I'd like to know how VSA will work with the LSD.

cmf

I'm sure VSA is the last thing on the mind when installing LSD. VSA is not gonna help when trying to produce good 1/4 mile times.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Considering that the TL has an LSD, I'm sure that the VSA and the LSD should work together without too much trouble.

TSX007

Actually the problems were a result of lack of experience with the TSX. After the install, the TSX had to be towed to the dealer because it wasn't recognizing the transponder key, so the car would shut down after a few seconds. Dealer reset the computer and the car started fine after that. But after the guys got the car running it would then shut down after a few feet. It turns out that the car uses a magnetic sensor to tally mileage as opposed to a speedo gear(as in the RSX). Well the sensor, which the shop guys say is the first they've seen in a honda, was damaged(likely during the install). So it was replaced and the car runs fine now. It's basically a direct bolt in, just have to be careful with the sensor during reassembly. The initial estimate was $850 which some might consider high, but I wanted it done right so I went to the best shop in the NYC area. I paid more than that because of the problems we ran in to, but once I drive it tomorrow I'll determine if it was worth the money spent.

fdl

Huh? Who's talking about 1/4 times? LSD aint going to help much with that anyways. LSD will help you put power to the ground while turning, not so much going straight

Anyways, VSA is a big thing on the mind when installing a LSD. That was one of the big questions everyone had when the idea was mentioned a while ago. But the fact that the TL has both shows it can work. We've just never had any proof yet.

Dan Martin

FDL, the LSD will actually help quite a bit in 1/4 times. Kurt explained this a couple months ago. I too am interested in how the VSA would work with an LSD.

fdl

The main advantage of an LSD is traction accelerating out of a turn. I don't see LSD making a shit of diff on a TSX 1/4 mile. But regardless of that, who's talking about 1/4 times anyways? Didnt really understand his post.

cmf

I'm talking about 1/4 mile times.....VSA is not gonna help get the start you want on the go. I believe the original post was about his LSD, not his VSA...so....who was talking about VSA?

TSX007

Well I can't help with 1/4 mile times since I don't have a baseline to work with. But I'm sure I can answer the VSA/LSD riddle once I get in the drivers seat.

MC-CL7

LSD don't really give too much help in 1/4 mile, but you will definitely feel the advantage of having a LSD on a road course. The way the car pull out of a corner with a LSD is something you can never do with car without LSD.

Why anyone want to drag race with a TSX anyways?

fdl

You're still not getting it. I'm too tired to explain. Try a google search to find out how a LSD works and what it does (and do the same for VSA) and then you will understand why VSA and LSD are closely related.

Once you learn about these 2 things you will realize why 1/4 mile has nothing to do with this thread, and VSA has alot to do with this thread.

cmf

There's nothing really to learn, I understand what I'm talking about. It's good you know everything about anything...I too am tired and going back and forth with you trying to prove or explain a point is a waste of my time...so...........OK

fdl

OK. Its all good.

Dan Martin

I know this thread is winding down but I just wanted to clarify my point on LSD & 1/4 mile times...

LSD's really do shine for accelerating out of a corner and that's the main reason why people should consider buying one. Seldom do both wheels ever have the same amount of traction any condition be it in a straight line or going around a corner. By locking the differential when one wheel starts to slip hence limiting the power loss to the wheel with grip, one can improve acceleration.
VSA uses brakes and throttle control to limit spin for safety but it has little to do with performance. In a 1/4 mile race, if you were using VSA and a wheel started to slip the computer would kick in and slow you down until the wheel has regained grip. You could always turn off VSA and just let the wheel spin until it regains grip but the during that time the wheel that does have grip is limited to the amount of power being put to the ground by the slipping wheel. An LSD limits the amount of power being sent to the slipping wheel and routes it to the wheel with grip hence improving acceleration and lowering 1/4 mile times. This is the same reason why muscle cars used to have Posi-traction to help out drag races. Why does this conversation sound so familiar?

Anyhow, sorry to rehash info you've probably all heard before but I just wanted to clear the air.

cmf

Thanks for explaining that, someone who understands where I was coming from! Didn't feel like going through the trouble, even after you said we had this discussion before...but not in those exact words...don't wanna quote anyone!

fdl

x 2

Not to keep rehashing this but..

cmf...this still does nothing to justify your post. Its still WAY off base.

I'm fully aware of how positraction and LSD will help in accelerating from a stand still, i.e 1/4 mile. (although I just dont think in the case of the TSX this will make any noticable difffernce.) But thats not the point.

The fact that BOTH LSD AND VSA respond to wheel slippage ( albeit in differnet ways ) raises an obvious and important question about how the two will work together. WIll they play nicely together or try and fight each other? This is what I am interested in. I'm not sure why you are having trouble understanding this And I"m also not sure why you would assume the guy is interested in 1/4 mile when in most cases an LSD is used to increase traction for cornering

All I did was ask how it would work with VSA, which if you do your reserach you will understand why this is an important issue. ANd then you respond with

"I'm sure VSA is the last thing on the mind when installing LSD. VSA is not gonna help when trying to produce good 1/4 mile times."



So you obviously stil dont know how these technologies work or you would not have posted that or still be trying to defend it.

Wess

That sounds awesome, an LSD would help greatly when I throw on a turbo on my TSX. What's wrong with drag racing a TSX? STi's, WRX, Neon SRT's, RSX's and all kinds of other cars do it, why not the TSX? Heh I guess some people arn't into the racing and performance end of cars. Maybe some of you are in it for the luxury of the vehicle, but I'm in it for the luxury, look, and some mean performance. I'll always have the TSX, it's my first car that I'm able to mod, and in the future I plan to do it to my next car too. As I said this a million times, it's fun!!

l8ers
Wess

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Well, I would imagine that under most conditions where you would be driving with the VSA on would also be conditions where you're less likely to be putting the LSD into much use. When you would be driving under conditions to really utilize the capabilities of an LSD, you'd most likely have disabled your VSA. In those situations where the two might interact, I would imagine the VSA takes precidence since safety comes first.

cmf

I do know how both of these systems work...I do not track my car, nor do I ever intend to, nor take my car around a city street turn at 100 mph. I plan to "race" people as much as I can at a track...1/8 mile, 1/4 mile....doesn't matter.
My bad for jumping to ASSUME that is what he was talking about...while at the same time I COULD be correct in my assumption that is what he was talking about needing his LSD for....
So, In a statement about 1/4 mile times....yes, who gives a shit about VSA, because if you have your VSA on and trying to race someone with an equally comparible car and he's not the shittiest driver in the world, you will lose off the start with that VSA shit on! Simple as that............Again, arguing with you is pointless....

fdl

This is too funny. Maybe I need to draw pictures Why do you keep arguing about 1/4 mile times???? I dont care about that, and have already conceded that LSD will affect 1/4 mile time.

Yes, arguing with me is pointless when you dont even know what you are arguing about. What is your point? That LSD affects 1/4 mile? Thats great but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. This all started with my asking if LSD will work with VSA , and you coming out of nowhere to put down my question and state that "VSA will be the last thing on his mind" because it doesnt affect 1/4 mile? Make no sense, sorry. VSA's compatibility with LSD is a huge question right now, and for you to put it down was wrong. That is my point. I dont know how much more clear I can get.

Wess

WTF would you have VSA on when using LSD???

Wess

fdl

For yaw control (correcting oversteer/understeer). Remember, VSA does certain things that an LSD doesnt.

Now if we could have the LSD take care of the traction control and the VSA ONLY intervene for yaw control then that IMO would be perfect. I'm not sure if this is possible though. I wonder how the TL does it (since it has both VSA and LSD)?

NocturnalEvo

Did u go to RPM*NYC?

TSX007

Thanks RPM NYC. Well I got the car back Saturday. Here's the breakdown in order:
1. most noticeable difference: TORQUE STEER!!!!!
not too bad but if your going to push the car to its peak, you better have both hands on the steering wheel! On the positive side, it's not detectable in normal everyday driving.
2. Coming out of a turn is a definite improvement. It's one of the reasons why I got the LSD.
3. Straight line performance slightly better on take off but wouldn't consider it a significant improvement. Regular acceleration no difference IMO.
4. VSA: pushed the car several times off a straight line and in turns and the VSA never came on. I'll follow up on this later if anyone is interested, just let me know.
So this confirms it, the Type R is compatible which means we can also assume that any RSX related LSD should work(Quaife, Spoon, etc.). Questions?

dom

You say VSA never came on in your testing? you had some problems during the install, it is possible that it simply no longer works? Was it disconnected somehow? possibly?

I don't think anyone can say "Well the TL has VSA and an LSD so they must work" Acura I'm certain tuned the two to work together. I'm sure a great deal of testing was done to ensure eacch served its purpose and did'nt conflict with eachother. Simply slapping on an LSD and expecting it to work perfectly with the VSA just does'nt seem realistic IMO?

Then again I know shit about this so its all speculation on my part.

fdl

Hmmm...


is is possible (and this would be ideal) that the LSD corrects an individual wheel spin early enough that VSA doesnt kick in. But you should check to make sure that vsa actually works Just create a situation where both wheels will spin and VSA should kick in.

TSX007

VSA did not come into play during the install. In fact, no VSA associated components are found within the tranny. I believe VSA components are found on the driveshaft and brake system. This would make sense since the VSA targets the brakes and throttle. I also think if the VSA was disabled or damaged the VSA indicator would indicate it on the dash, just guessing on this one.

xizor

Go water down a parking lot and try to do a 180 with your car and see if VSA kicks in. I can see the LSD keeping the front wheels from spinning, but the LSD shouldn't help the back wheels any. Also trying to do a 180 should kick in the yaw/pitch sensors.

TSX007

That's what I suspect, in fact, I believe the VSA is not easily activated anymore due to what you mentioned. But after work I'll do as you say just to confirm the VSA is still working.

dom

Your right, it would. Good point.

nyc1badmofo

hey tsx007 you got some stickers of dragons on the rear am I right?

Ben
2004 Carbon Gray/Quartz Gray/Navi/6-speed
20% black tint
comptech short shifter

kurt_bradley

Just to throw it out there: yes, I do have a diff, but it is not the ITR or Spoon one. I use the Phantom Grip, and it works just fine. Especially off the line (mmm...2-wheel burnout). The turning grip was definately boosted too. It will transfer inner wheel power, just like the ITR one.

TSX007

Yeah that's me. When did you see my ride? I'm not usually in the city.

nyc1badmofo

I didn't see it in the city.... I'm one of the techs that looked into your car when RPM towed it in.

Ben
2004 Carbon Gray/Quartz Gray/Navi/6-speed
20% black tint
comptech short shifter

TSX007

Rallye Acura? Maybe someday I'll hit the lotto and buy a Maybach from you guys.

DEVO

LSD is found on pretty much every drag racer.

Dan Martin

You should never drive on LSD. That shit will mess you up!

chadjcyr

LSD is one of those drugs that could make you put a bag over your head and set fire to it!!! Oh nevermind! LOL