3 weeks ago bought my '04 MT used...30K miles. I noticed on one of the threads that someone said that their throttle response improved with Hondata. Is this one of the intended effects of the mod or were they just referring to having a quicker car. I do not have Hondata yet.

I have noticed that the drive by wire definitely has a little lag that I did not see in my Prelude...Somtimes if I stomp on it, it seems as if the computer is waiting to see if I am serious. ;-) ...perhaps in the interest of maintaining my usual gas saving style of driving.

Thanks...
-wec

 

I think you'll get a throttle response improvement by removing the resonator and installing an aftermarket intake. Allowing the engine to breathe better will improve make it more responsive. I'm not sure whether the hondata reflash will improve the throttle response.

 

i've removed the resonator and done nothing else to the car yet....there is a slight improvement with the response...but nothing to brag about...

 

Originally Posted by rmpage
Just pull the fuse for the AC compressor. Doesn't matter much though, the ECU disengages the clutch at WOT anyway.

I just read this in another thread...made me wonder if the second or two of pause I feel before getting full "commitment" from the computer is the AC clutch kicking out...it has been really hot here lately.

 

That's a good question. I nominate you to test your theory!

 

That's definitely not it. In a non-DBW car, if I disengage the clutch and take the accelerator to the floor (even with the air conditioner on), the engine starts revving before the pedal hits the floor. In the TSX, you can disengage the clutch and push the pedal to the floor and then release it, and you'll get a surge in RPM after releasing the gas pedal. It makes it very difficult for me to properly rev-match my downshifts.

 

well, what I had noticed, in addition to a brief DBW lag (as I have decided ;-) is that after "hammer down"...the engine tries "moderately hard" for a full second or two and then gives me another...lets call it 20%. That is what I perceived...the AC thing sounds good...I have been nominated to test the theory which I will do tomorrow when it warms up.

 

test message

 

Now that I've owned and driven my TSX for a while, I find the drive-by-wire throttle to be perhaps the most annoying feature on the car. Not only does it have severe response lag, but it's adaptive too. How in the hell is a serious driver ever supposed to know how the throttle is going to respond?? You are completely cut-off.

The right pedal is merely a suggestion lever, and you better ask nice or the computer is going to ape on you. Perhaps if I was talking on my cell phone with my knees steering the car and my attention diverted to the trees next to the freeway, then I wouldn't notice this engineering blackhole.

<rant>
What a piece of junk. And they say it's Formula One inspired. WTF, I freakin hate it when Honda pulls out that BS card... for one, as if their Formula One program is really anything to brag about, and two, as if a Formula One driver would really settle for that kind of lag and unpredictable response.

On a track this throttle thing would be a serious liability--a safety hazard. I was pulling my car around some pretty tight clover-leaf freeway ramps, just to get a feel for how the car does near the limit. Up where the car starts to plow a bit, it takes fine control of the throttle to keep your speed up and coax the rear of the car around... With the lag in the throttle, the car is messy as hell. It really pissed me off.
</rant>

 

preach on, brother.

 

Here's what I think it's doing. I think with normal driving it goes into a fuel-conservation mode. You gotta rev it a bit (a couple of stabs at the accel.) and it seems to "wake it up" a bit! I haven't played with it that much, but I'm doing OK with it, so I dunno. At any rate, if you're at 3K rpms or lower, don't expect much when you press the pedal anyways.

 

hmph, i think the lag on the throttle is probably a good thing. if your slamming your foot to the ground you probably arent doing something right. atelast in daily driving. from what i noticed that if i plan my attack, downshift and gently get on the gas and slowly go to the ground. swiftly should be a better word
but anyway, the car is more responsive with you when you really exagerate your moves. granted the car is VERY responsive once it shifts, it seems almost as if the car knows you dont mean buisness until its reved, and if ure really meaning to do something, you better be downshifting.

 

Agreed...adaptive...not cool...or at least the way it is programmed. I don't mind it in economy for the first two thirds of the throttle, but beyond that it should be obvious I mean business...and while I need to get a G-Tech and study it...it seems that if I drive it fast for a bit then it adapts to that style...if I drive like a wuss then the car is a wuss. Doesn't make it easy to change character quickly.

That's why I asked about the Hondata and if the throttle programming was part of it.

On the plus side, there is a very popular canyon near here that I drive up to go fishing on occasion...this weekend when I came down the canyon P.O.'d after being rejected by the native trout...I absolutely crushed the local "gaper" population using any occasion to pass that was not absolutely moronic. Some pretty nice cars tried to follow...none made it far....I was REALLY impressed with how the TSX handled in the downhill mega-twisties...the integration between steering and brakes made it possible to do some things that really suprised me.

Now if it could only pull consistently on the flats ;-)

 

i wish we have something like the canyons up here in toronto. but we don't, all we have is hugh flat straightways.

 

Who slams the throttle around in the middle of a turn? The lag in the throttle is a good thing if some kid with a loud stereo and cut springs is behind the wheel, driving with no finesse and squishy no-name tires. But if a focused driver gets behind the wheel, they are rewarded (or punished) with a sloppy car when pushed near the limit.

The lack of response makes it extremely difficult to fine tune the car's fore-aft balance in a turn. It is aggrivating and disappointing because the car's chassis is actually very very impressive right out of the box. It is capable of so much more, but the rolling computer-center on board is a serious obstacle.

The adaptation really is a ridiculous feature. Give me a throttle with a predictable response. Even if the first 3/4 of pedal doesn't do much ("economy" mode), at least it would be consistent and predictable.

The only thing consistent about the throttle is the lag in response. Regardless of how fast you depress or release the pedal, the lag is the same. Try it and time it, and you'll see.

I realize I'm being very vocal and critical, but I can feel what this car COULD do, and I can tell that there is one thing beyond my control that is hurting it. I really hate undue complexity, especially when it does a poor job of emulating an infinitely simpler analog/mechanical system.

 

I'm wondering if the VSA was on or off when you were "takin it to the edge"? I'v read some of your other posts on this site, and your views on this car are really nice to see. You say what you think about the car, some I agree with, some I don't, but different people can drive the same car and come away with VERY different feelings towards it. I have never noticed any lack of response in the throttle. And the one time I tried to take it to the edge, the VSA kicked in. Wanted to turn around, turn off the VSA and do it again, but didnt get the chance. My PSSM (passenger side speed and systems moniter) would'n let me. When THAT starts to emit its warning signs, you just cant ignore it.

 

Haha, fortunately my PSSM at the time was a motorhead friend who was encouraging me. However I can think another passenger seat occupant or two who would be screaming though.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't VSA intervening because 1) the VSA light never came on, and 2) I have since duplicated the lag in normal driving conditions where VSA is most certainly dormant.

It is more evident now that my intake is opened up a bit. It clearly manifests itself when cruising at around 50 MPH or so in 6th gear--light steady throttle. If you quickly drop the throttle to the floor, the intake noise increases about 1 second later, as does the acceleration.

Play with it a bit more and you can tell the lag is consistent across the board, regardless how little or much the throttle is adjusted. The throttle will do the same thing when you release it. There is about a 1 second cushion to release the throttle.

I can think of a few benefits of a drive-by-wire throttle--it gives a car manufacturer the ability to:
- Limit throttle use when engine is cold (no Wide-Open throttle during warm-up)
- Eliminate sudden jolts to the drivetrain (idiot drivers who try to bark the tires between gears)
- Conveniently control engine power programmatically for traction control.

For over 100 years, cars have had instantaneous cable actuated throttles--and many of them go hundreds of thousands of miles even with idiot drivers who floor-it when the engine is cold and who try to shatter the drivetrain by dumping the accelerator and clutch. Why does Honda suddenly deem this to be a necessary feature--and why such a lousy implementation of the technology?

The lag that exists in the TSX is apparently not entirely noticeable in casual daily driving, except perhaps when someone is getting used to the 6-speed transmission at first--they might notice that they can get smoother upshifts by depressing the throttle a little bit before they normally would. However, up at the limit--it really shows itself.

 

That's a pretty gross exaggeration. If I recall correctly, it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 25ms.

 

^^ I just found it, it's 200ms not 25ms. Still, not quite a second though.

 

I only wish it was 25ms.

Honda is relatively new to the Drive-by-wire throttle club. There have been other manufacturers using the technology for a long long time, and they have since worked out some of these bugs. Perhaps Honda will do so in time. I just wish they would make the improvements available to existing customers.

 

The GTO uses DBW on the LS2 V8 and it feels just like a cabled throttle to me.

I know the lag you speak of in the TSX, and evidently (to me, at least) GM has worked out those issues.

 

GM ahead of Honda on something technological? Ouch. The throttle issue is the single biggest pet peeve I have with the TSX. It'd be really cool if some kind of retrofix could be made.

 

OK now you have done it...I am both an automation engineering manager and a student of the Tier One US automotive manufacturing sector.

I can tell you that GM and its brothers have jack shizzle on Honda or Toyota when it comes to technology or quality. ( And as I write on a business trip driving a brand new american car I long for my 3 year old TSX btw)...

But I can also tell you that the type of control system that would determine lag time to 200ms vs. 1000ms...well at the end of the day its a matter of preference, not experience...these things are very simple and I am sure that the guys who programmed them made choices that they felt served their target market.

I have no idea if a GM DBW is faster, but I know that if it is that the GM engineer made a choice that the Honda guy did not...not that either is right...but the GM guy is
not "ahead" by any stretch.

Honda has a tendency to "sterilize" some designs...perhaps they over-did that a little with the DBW throttle on the TSX.

All IMO...some smart dudes on this thread...diggin it....