I am been toying with the idea of making a moderate turbo kit for the TSX. I have an Auto and would like a little more power. This would not be a balls-out turbo kit that would hamper daily drivability, but rather the extra kick in the pants we would get if the car had a turbo option from the factory. Maybe an extra 75 hp to the wheels on an otherwise stock car.

I have a developer that can make all the piping in aluminum, and we can have them finished in a variety of ways. The turbo would a be a GT series Garret unit, possibly a GT3071 or GT28RS. There would be a front mount bar and plate style intercooler and we would hopefully make bumper modification optional.

The only questionable part of it will be fuel management. There might be a couple options:

1) Hondata reflash
2) DBW elimination with K-pro
3) FMU route

Basically, what would be the interest in a kit like this? Most kits would be made to order, but would be fully assembled in-house by Section 8 Motors (http://www.section8motors.com). This means that kits can be customized with different intercooler piping, turbo sizing, etc....

What would be a sellable price for a kit like this? If we can meet price targets, would I be able to get preorders?

Marcus

 

For price, I would say it would have to be similar, if not better, than Comptech's upcoming supercharger kit.

Since you are going for a more basic, plug and play w/o extensive tuning type kit, the Hondata reflash would make more sense. DBW elimination w/ K-pro would be more expensive and not add much value to a basic plug and play type kit. NO WAY should you go FMU if a properly tuned Hondata reflash is available.

As an owner of an auto TSX also, I'd be concerned about the longevity of the transmission if 75 more hp is added.

 

The tranny can handle it. I am not concerned about that. If anything, the AT is stronger than the MT. I feel 75 hp increase is conservative for what the engine is capable of. Especially since we had a guy at the shop yesterday with 345 hp to the wheels on a stock RSX-S with the JR supercharger and NOS.

I whole heartedly agree on the FMU thing...the advent of the reflash is the only reason I am considering pursuing this, to be honest.

Given the $3600 price tag on the RSX SC from Comptech, and the same $$ for a reflash/JR SC for an RSX from Jackson, I don't see keeping it under $3500 extremely difficult. I think that turbos are inherantly better on Hondas than superchargers are anyway.....

 

I don't like the FMU either not to mention the additional fuel return setup with such use. However, this means a set of larger injectors will be required and the reflash will need to account of the increased fuel at idle, as well as the map sensor modulating fuel during boost.

 

Well, we know how to make kits...

I am asking if there was a kit that was "the way you would want it", to kinda sidestep any debate about what is should be like, would anyone buy it?

Marcus

 

FI is in my future, so yes.

 

I'd be interested.

 

Me three

 

Count me in... I miss having a charger since my '02 WRX and the TSX definately needs "something" under the hood.

 

Yeah...I love my TSX too....but compared to my last car (WRX here too, with a VF34) it is kind of a dog....

The TSX really needs a little more juice under the hood...

I am going to investigate a little further and see how possible this will be.

 

if you can keep it at about 3500 tops, then im sure ill be interested.. how is the quality of their work? i am currently waiting for cybernation to get their turbo kit out, but the quality seems suspect. price is around the same, keep us updated..

 

me too

 

im intrested soon if not mines going custom 1 off turbo kit in north carolina in the next 2 months so if someone can beat that deadline im in all the way ..

 

how you going custom? without k-pro..? you going to remove DBW?

 

The quality is really nice. Better than a lot of the other hackshack stuff you see sometimes. Plus this is obviously a limited run. I need to be able to sell about 20 kits in order for it to be really worth it. Keep in mind the price would be lower if we made the intercooler option and went with a non-GT turbo, but I think we all would want a really nice complete kit with the best possible materials. Piping would be all aluminum, maybe black or polished.

 

Intercooled is definately a plus and I would prefer black piping to blend with the rest of the engine compartment.... I guess I prefer the sleeper look... My black Injen CAI attests to this. LOL

 

we did an RSX last week.....I will take some pics so you can get an idea...

 

Show me some pix. Custom kits in SD run 2500 for the basic custom kit. So how close are you coming with this?

 

What will be the material and design for the manifold? I'm more than willing to pay for the price difference for a water-cooled twin ball-bearing turbo.

 

The manifold WOULD be tubular stainless (keep in mind, there is no WILL BE here yet...we are doing research).

A ball-bearing turbo will be standard. A basic turbo kit would not necessarily include a high-end turbo, or an intercooler for that matter.....so, even though I can make a kit for $2500 as well, I won't. I am going to try my best to figure out a $3500 price. The key parts here are the bar and plate intercooler and GT turbo. We are looking at the GT28RS as our best canididate. We only use T-bolt clamps for the intercooler piping, aluminum pipe construction. The question is whether or not that will include a reflash! I may need to cut the price of the kit and leave the reflash up to you.

We are not looking to make a basic turbo kit. We want a high quality kit that does not cut corners. Needless to say, the kit will be more money than some are looking to pay for it. For those I have to say, go ahead and do a cheaper kit.

 

Im interested depending on what it looks like and some dyno's. I am aiming for 400 whp though can you help me get there =)

 

Thank you for being quality-minded and taking the time to put this plan together! Please keep us posted on the progress.

 

Honestly, don't count on it.


POWERMONGERS, I am not trying to make the country's fastest TSX here. I think 275-300 whp is more than enough for our cars. I am a realistic person with realistic goals, and have done this a couple times before. The resluts of this turbo kit would be a kick in the pants amount of power that we would have all liked to have seen from the factory, but they would never do. The power in mind is meant to satisfy drivers, not kill vettes. That is what EG civics with turbo GSR motors are for.

Over-modding the car is not only unreliable and impractical. The kit I envision is more than capable of blowing up the engine if used improperly. The kit out of the box is not likely to make 400 hp.

That being said, the ability of modding the kit or optioning it with a different turbo and associated bits to make 400 hp is fully realistic! I think a GT35 would do it....but tuning is still an issue! I am not even sure when this Hondata thing will be available. I called them and they have ZERO information for me.

 

MRheeltoe....
Count me in.. but I nee dyour help in a major way to install this sucker... ^_^
Don't know much about turbos.. but 275-300hp is a nice gain....
By the time you finish with the kit my warranty will be expired.

 

275 wheel horsepower woudl be ncie as hell. thats a hundred over what we're putting out now. and if you could make it suitable for normal driving conditions as well. your doing well

 

I want one

 

275-300 is a high estimate... I really think 275 would be with a good exhaust, optimal tuning (which may or may not be available with a simple reflash) and possibly additional mods. A 60-75 hp increase is probably the most realistic.

 

Not trying to be an a$$ but I believe that 400 whp done correctly with the proper tuning and a built motor is very reliable. Just because I will have the power doesn't mean I will be flooring it everywhere I go. I just want to have it so when I feel like hitting the track I can take on that Civic with the GSR turbo swap. And if not beat him give him a good run. AEBS already has sleeves for the car I'm sure JE has pistons and crower should have rods eventually. With that ARP head studs, metal head gasket, larger injectors, port and polish, turbo profiled cams, titanium retainers, over sized valves, dual valve springs, and a K pro or some other tunable stand alone it is very possible. You just have to take care of the car. Its all on how its tuned and how you take care of it. I still want the 400 whp no one is going to change my mind on that. I really want to smoke an STI and an EVO in the 1/4.

 

I think tubular stainless steel would not be an ideal material for the manifold as it may not be as durable as cast iron or high nickel steel like the manifolds that used to be made by F-max.

On the Z message boards, it seemed like the majority of people who installed Greddy's turbo kit, which came with stainless steel manifolds, eventually had them crack. Re-welding and reinforcing never really solved the problem on a long term basis.

Case iron may not look cool, but it would be strong and durable.

 

I'd be interested as well.

 

count me in, i like the word "conservative"

 

That really is besides the point though. The car needs more power, but not as much as a viper. Really now. Most of us are daily driver/commuters. That much of a kit is going to comprimise so much of the car's good nature. Do it if you want, but that is not my goal.


Not necessarily true. If the manifold is built right and the turbo is supported properly, there are not any more issues with either. Cast manifolds are prone to cracking just as much as stainless ones. It has to do with supporting the turbo properly, not so much the build material. Any huge turbo hanging off any manifold without support is going to cause problems.

Not to mention the fact that most of the common stainless manifolds out there are junk.

 

Well, the kit I was talking about is made by Greddy, which I would assume would have half way decent engineering talent and build quality. They also came with a pair of TD05s which aren't really that big.

But, I guess even Greddy can fuck stuff up.

 

The key phase in your comment is "half way decent." And actually I was referring to the other guy that said that they could get a kit made for $250....maybe so, but quality will not likely be on par with what I am proposing.




LATEST DEVELOPMENT!

1)First note: TUNING. Ok, I am not really willing to put this on hold because of Hondata. I am wondering if the following option was presented, what would be better?

a) Convert to conventional throttle body and utilize Kpro. I know this seems drastic, and it is more expensive than if we could just plug a Kpro in, but I don't think a reflash is going to be the idea method of tuning here. I can source an STR billet throttle bodyfor a good price, and can get the ecu conversion figured out, including the Kpro. Until Hondata releases a Kpro for the TSX, this is the best tuning option. I just don't want to put this conversion off forever until it is available. Also, this puts out AT people, which is sort of a problem because I have an AT.

b) Use a VAFC to control fuel. Ok, it is not as good as the Kpro, we all know. But at least it is programmable! And we can tune VTEC with it. There is no ignition or cam timing control, but it will be good enough to hold us over until the relfash or Krpo comes out. Also, they are inexpensive and easy to configure. I can have tuning done on the kit and provide the proper maps to get the car running right.

d) Ditch the idea until Hondata gets it together. I don't like this idea.


Second note: Price! Price is going to be higher than $3500. I know, I know, I want to keep it under that, especially with the superchargers coming out soon. But we are basing price off the RSX kits...we are not sure what the price on TSX kits will be, or when they will come out. ALSO, a supercharger kit is not going to have the upgradability of a turbo kit. The question of the quality of power is sort of moot. The turbo I am optioning is arguably one of the best available right now. It is capable of over 300 whp on an RSX, and the spool is very fast on it.

I have been figuring price on this kit based on the utilization of bigger injectors and a Hondata reflash. That alone accounts for about $850 of the cost! The oil pan is another issue. It is made out of cast aluminum so it will be difficult for people to adapt a drain to it. We are considering including a prefabbed pan with the kit. I am not willing to comprimise on hardware in the kit. SO our price MIGHT reach $3800. It is not much more, but I don't want there to be a big surprise IF it happens.

 

You know, the more research I do, there really are not that many great tuning options for the Kseries. I really want to do this, but it might not be the most realistic thing to do.

Even the Kpro is not a flawless system. I have heard that were some drivability hiccups with the Jackson Kit.

 

Stokeless will tell you that no one has gotten the wiring correct yet for VAFC w/ the K24A2.

 

i say just wait for comptech to do its thing, atleast that way you know its been QA tested up the wazzoo.

 

What do you think they are going to do? They are waiting for a reflash too...

 

Ah I did some reaserch and it is going tosuck if we do that anyway.

 

Damnit! I knew I should have bought a Civic... LOL