Audioserf

I just got back from 3 hours at the dyno, and to say I'm pissed off would be an understatement.

These are my dyno results (no scanner at home). All SAE corrected. (Dynojet dyno)

1: 200.81/165.35
2: 200.99/170.15
3: 189.16/167.85
4: 192.47/172.09
5: 187.33/167.89
6: 184.43/168.99
7: 187.96/168.48
8: 186.97/175.27

Mods to 6MT 2004 TSX:
Injen short-ram intake, TopSpeed header, RT cat, Tanabe MT catback, CT Supercharger

Considering I was expecting to hit around 245/185, this is mind-blowingly bad.

Things we checked:
- belt tension is correct (1/2" drop from top of tensioner mechanism to top of spring perch, per CT-E instructions)
- proper boost is being achieved - we connected a boost gauge and the car is hitting 5-6psi at WOT
- a/f - this seems fine, car's getting into the 11's under WOT
- timing - is not going past 19-20, at most. This is a problem - DAYTA was with me, and said that during his baseline supercharger dyno, his TSX was hitting 21-22 at the high end.

The shop owner and I took a spin in my car, and immediately after leaving his shop, a CEL is thrown. I pulled the code, and it's P0325. Someone googled it, and found a thread here on AZine which identifies it as the knock sensor circuit. The thread went on to discuss that the knock sensor has very frail/flimsy wiring that is sensitive to heat.

What I'm hoping:
That the knock sensor has been going bad for a while and that today it breathed its last breath, and that a new knock sensor will cure all of my woes. If not, I'm going to have to get a compression test done, because I don't know what else it could be.

ANYONE with input here, please let me know. I feel like I just got kicked in the stomach. I'm so bummed out.

- Matt

carmagnut

Sorry to hear that Matt. I am getting the kit put in next week and I hope all goes smooth. The car is a DD for me (probably like yourself) and when things start to go wrong because of mods you are like...F**K.

Tsx536

Dang, sorry to hear about your troubles Matt. That sucks man :thumbsdow

I wouldn't be too concerned about the low numbers. If I remember correctly, the ECU will pull ignition and retard timing if it senses knock. And since your knock sensor may be damaged then it could be related. Is the sensor something that is normally disconnected during the SC install?

Also, where was your AF ratio at? It should be close to 11.8-12.0 in boost. The lower it is the less power you make.

I hope you get this all figured out. Good luck man!

04-6mt-atx

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't sweat it too much right now (hard when you just drop 4k, I know) but something is affecting your end #'s.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

The numbers are a little low for a SC setup. Hope the knock sensor will fix the problem. Keep in mind high intake temp can also cause timing to retard. Try to hook up a scan tool the next time to monitor air temp. I would fix the hot air intake and swap out the RT cat.

Audioserf

I didn't get a readout of a/f on my sheet. The guy running the dyno was monitoring a/f on a handheld tool and when in boost, it was between 11.2-12.2, to the best of my recollection. So it's off from what you say above, but not drastically so.

I'm going to call Josh this morning and ask him about all of this, and mention the knock sensor. It's supposedly located under the power steering pump usually, and it may be moved when you relocate said pump during the install. I'm almost certainly going to ask Josh to order a new knock sensor and have him install it for me to see if that at least sorts out my CEL.

Audioserf

I actually have a scangauge in my car that monitors IAT, but I wasn't looking at it during the runs (as I wasn't in the car). It was 63* outside last night, and there was a fan running on the car. My IAT is not normally a problem; with my short ram setup (combined with the ram-air tube I have running from the foglight hole up to the area the filter sits in), IAT is normally within 10 degrees of external temperature...

Johnny, what do you think the RT cat is doing? I haven't experienced any issues with it... do you think it could be bad? The reason I was expecting in the neighborhood of 240whp/185wtq is that for 6MT 04/05 cars with the bolt-ons I have (CAI, header, RT cat, catback), that's the area they end up in by adding the blower.

Right now I'm not driving the car until the knock sensor is replaced and the CEL goes away. Glad I've got my Cherokee.

Audioserf

This quote is about the Hondata reflash (regular reflash, not S/C, but worth reading):

- the engine was not hot for the very first run (which was the 200whp shot)
- power did progressively get worse from there, even with 3-4 runs for the ECU to "learn" (which I had already done earlier in the day in any case)
- unsure what coolant temperature was but the car did not overheat (per the idiot gauge, anyway)

I have scanned my dyno chart, but since I'm at work, I can't access any online file hosting services. If anyone would like me to e-mail them a copy of the pdf, please post here or PM me and I would be glad to. The engine is giving out at higher RPMs - at redline, the HP drops VERY Sharply around 200hp, and the torque curve peaks at 4k and then just tanks all the way to redline.

Timing issue? Seems like a bad knock sensor would definitely cause that, and the P0325 code I got indicates that as the problem.

Elite K Pro

Do you have a pic of the header? What is the internal i.d. of the cat-back exhaust and hi-flow cat?Also, without k-pro( i assume you don't have k-pro), its hard to say if the results are accurate.

DAYTA

Well, my timing peaked at 21-22 but it started around 17-18 degrees and increased progressively to redline as it should. Also, I wouldn't say your torque curve tanks @ 4500, but it doesn't look right since mine peaked at 5000. I highly doubt it has anything to do with coolant/engine temps, otherwise your engine temp gauge should've said otherwise.

I'm not sure if the problem is exclusively with the knock sensor either. Both your hp and tq curves looked like solid linear progressions, they just had a smaller positive slope. If the knock sensor crapped out, I feel like your curves would've been much more erratic than they were. Truthfully, I really wouldn't be surprised if the initial cause of your problems was a bad tank of gas like we had talked about.

When you were pulling solidly on the highway coming back from Josh's, that was before you filled up with gas. After you refilled the tank, it would probably take a few runs before it affected performance (i.e. right around the time you put the car on the dyno). I don't think it's coincidental that you threw a CEL right after you came off the dyno.

Audioserf

I spoke to Josh/Excelerate. He thinks the bad gas theory is a solid one. He recommends I add some octane booster (and top off with 93 from another station) and drive gently for 15 minutes or so to cycle the fuel + booster. At that point, I'll clear the code, and keep driving. If the code returns, then we're replacing the knock sensor.

Elitetuning -- I don't have that information off-hand. The Topspeed header is a stainless steel replica of the DC Sports unit (and is the first and only time I'll ever buy a replica part, for the record. I need to replace it with a Comptech some time soon).

vthree

iTrader: (1)

aww man!!! your #s are insane!!!!! i dynoed 206whp...(-sc) i wish you were local; maybe i could try that sc for you.. (just kidding) hope you get it figured out asap!

Audioserf

That's what I was saying last night. I was dyno'ing full-bolt on NA numbers. That shit ain't right.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

The cat may have been fine without boost, but it can become a bottle neck during boost especially the exit pipe size is less than 2" ID. The header a-pipe flange opening is also too small for a boost application (~2.0"). I would modify it at the 2 to 1 section and make it 2.5". Then get a 2.5" cat to match.

Btw, the knock sensor is located on the block between cylinder 2 & 3, behind the intake maniold. Also, the intake air temp is registered before the blower, so the actual air temp after the blower is much higher. That can also cause knock activity and timing retard as a result.

hondata

The knock sensor error may stop the high cam from activating.

Audioserf

Googling has led me to believe that for Hondas/Acuras, more often than not the P0325 is caused by a rodent having gnawed on the wiring harness (Honda wire covering contains soy for some reason, and rodents like a nice warm engine bay after a car's parked for the night). I am confident that when I head to Excelerate tomorrow to put in a new knock sensor (just to be sure), we'll discover one of the following:

1) bad knock sensor (unlikely)
2) loose connection at either knock sensor or ECU (possible)
3) wiring in bad shape (most likely)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hope to be back in action sooner than later.

Tsx536

Dayta, check all of your wiring too.

Check out the posts in this thread. I had a problem at one point with one of the wiring harnesses getting caught on the bypass valve and also getting stuck under the blower and heating up. Anyway, check it out: https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...charger&page=5

Audioserf

Update: I'm not sure it's the knock sensor error (since that's gone now and hasn't returned), but the car's definitely not using the higher cam. VTEC as I know it is gone. Doug (Hondata) provided me with some good info via e-mail, and I hope to get the car back in to Excelerate soon for testing to find out why VTEC's not working.

Until I get VTEC back, I'm looking at 180/175 at the wheels, and that just sucks.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

wow those are some freaken low numbers. My accord with full bolt on makes that much hp. did they tune it right? If you didn't tune it that is your problem. use either hondata or aem FIC. Cuz I think ur ecu freaken out

Takran

Audioserf

It's a straight Hondata reflash for use with the supercharger, no tuning possible. It shouldn't be necessary for the CT Supercharger kit.

Right now I'm waiting for a new ACM from Comptech. If that doesn't fix this I'm debating parting the car out and selling it.

onebadtsx

I feel you on that. I love the TSX but this is my fear in seriously modding this car.

Audioserf

You should be fine. This is just a display of me having tremendously shitty luck with something that we have yet to clearly identify. Plenty of people have installed the CTSC with no issues. Hell, Kenny (TSX536) was the 5AT test car for CT and has had his blower on for like five years.

PrecyseStylez

Dont part out!.. maybe the charger is bad? Just make sure you've tried everything before you decide to part out!

04-6mt-atx

iTrader: (2)

IF you part out I will gladly buy your CT SC kit.

rex.

I wouldn't part out. There's bound to be a defective part somewhere among all the SC kits they've made, it just sucks that you happened to purchase one of them. You should be able to get it replaced because your definitely under warranty.

Audioserf

Excelerate's got the car right now and Josh + Jamie are working to figure out what's wrong with it. Replacing the ACM didn't do shit. At this point there's something fundamentally wrong that is screwing my car up. I'm at the end of my rope. This is going on three weeks now. An 03 540i's looking pretty good.

PrecyseStylez

Why not have them replace the charger period?..

JTso

iTrader: (2)

It's hard to blame the charger if it has no problem with boost pressure, noises, or leaks.

Audioserf

Yeah... nothing so far points to the charger as being a problem. Boost is fine, sounds fine, produces nearly the exact amount of torque common for a 6MT 04 TSX with exhaust bolt-on's. I'd be really surprised if anything were wrong with the supercharger itself.

PrecyseStylez

maybe its the reflash?

hondata

The reflash alters only the VTEC point and cam angle and it has been confirmed the correctly programmed values are being datalogged from the ECU. VTEC activation voltage was measured from the solenoid as well and was correct.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

Let me start off this post by saying what we have always said: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR (No offense to Matt b/c I know this was a temporary part for him).



This is the Topspeed ebay header. The flex section flares down to 20mm That is about 3/4 of an inch. This is why we repeatedly tell customers to buy quality parts that actually have R&D behind them. What was thought to be an issue with the CT supercharger or the ACM or the Hondata reflash or the Honda motor (VTEC) really came down to poor quality parts from overseas. Please let this be a good reminder to all who mod that not all parts are the same; just b/c the header looks nice and looks the same doesn't mean it is.

We're pretty certain this is the reason for the loss of hp but we'll post back up soon. Thanks.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

That will kill power for sure.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

We're pretty certain that is the issue at hand since the car is fine other than the loss of hp. That being said, the boost is also a little high (almost 6 psi) which is likely due to the inefficiency of the header. I expect it will come to 5 psi once we get the proper header on there (mostly likely a CT header).

xjohnkdoex

iTrader: (2)

wow. topspeed FTL.

at least there's a promising diagnosis now. now you can't sell your car!

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

The title of this thread should be edited Supercharger/Dyno Disappointment due to Ebay Topspeed Header so ppl don't get mislead.

Audioserf

Haha, and I don't plan to. I just got off the phone with Josh, and we've ordered a CT-E header. They just sold the last one they had in stock, so I'll be waiting 2-3 weeks to get one on my car. Until then, I'll just baby it around town.

The TopSpeed was only ever a temporary measure, as Josh said. I thought everything was good after having a new flexpipe welded in... apparently not! I took one look at that picture and started to laugh.

Thanks to Josh, Jamie, Doug, Greg, and everyone else who's been involved in helping figure this out. Hopefully a new header closes the chapter on this.

DiaBando

iTrader: (3)

Great news! Got my fingers crossed for you!

Knifey

So is it the original part or the welded mod that's at issue here?