TheMirror

No no no no no.

Sorry, I'm not buying 210lb./ft. at the wheels for this naturally aspirated, pump gas 2.4L setup. It just isn't possible given the laws of physics. Given the standard 15% transmission power loss, that would have a 2.4L K24 giving out 100ft./lbs. per liter. Even with a generous 10% power loss, it would be 231lb./ft., or 96lb./ft per liter.

With increased revs and volumetric efficiency, you can make horsepower numbers soar off into the stratosphere. Not so with torque. Its heavily displacement limited, until you get into forced induction.

Some examples of the most expensive cars in the world and their crank-measured torque figures.

2006 M5 V-10 - 383lb./ft from 5.0L
2006 Murcielago - 479lb./ft from 6.2L
2006 Ferrari F430 - Challenge 343lb./ft. from 4.3L
2004 Ferrari F50 - 347lb./ft from 4.7L

None of those engines exceeds 80lb./ft. per liter. They're all in the high 70's. Assuming 80lb./ft. per liter from a K24, you get 192lb./ft. AT THE CRANK.

So, I hate to be the disinformator here, but I call BS at that kind of NA torque rating. I can MAYBE see the 260 wheel hp, which would be anywhere from 285 - 298hp at the crank, but not that torque figure. Sorry gang.

-Mirror

SeanS627

well they could get a dyno plot out there for advertising

TheMirror

That second graph quotes those figures as Flywheel hp and Torque using SAE correction method.

TodaSi

Hummmmm, wonder how this all came about

And yes Mr. Mirror it can be done 210 ft-lbs from a 2.4 NA. I personally saw the graphs, both fuel and timing as well as the dyno. Heck, you could even get up to 230 ft-lbs if you bump compression up to 12-12.5:1.

Time will tell.

TheMirror

Show me the graph. That would be equal to a modern F1 engine.

TSX2345

TheMirror

Note at top of graph:

Fly Wheel Torque: Hondata 06 Correction Method:SAE

That would be 87.5 lb./ft. per liter.

Endless-Whitetsx

Can you post the price for the total setup to achieve those numbers...

It seems right now headers = $1300.00
Exhaust is = $1200.00
How much is ECU and I guess any intake is fine..
Anything else?
Does that mean if you have pullies the number will be higher.. and guessing the headers/exhaust setup includes the cat??

zidenx

iTrader: (1)

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1940860

scroll down a few threads. 205tq

another
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=463722

TodaSi

I can't see the graph TSX2345 posted but even if the engine hit 87.5 lb/ft that would exceed all the previous engines posted. What we are talking about here is comparing stock engines to modified engines. A current F1 engine only produces around 230 ft/lbs, while the V10's would only make about 330 ft/lbs.

I don't know, maybe you're right, but I would really love to see it.

TheMirror

Respectfully to zidenx -



Not buying it until knowing what kind of dyno, if there was a correction method used (see reading comprehension above), etc. etc.

Still shy of the 210 claimed by the HyTech vendor.

Regardless, assuming the 15% loss, that would make 291hp, or 121hp/L.
That would also make, with 15% loss (which is shy of Dynapack's assumed 18%) 235lb./ft., or 98 lb./ft. per liter.

F1 engine territory again.

Strange how the Suzuki Hayabusa engine puts out 172hp from 1.3L, or 134hp/L, and yet can only manage 78.45 lb./ft per Liter. of torque.

minkl81

iTrader: (2)

you missed cams & intake manifold

TheMirror

Yeah no doubt, that's an AWESOME figure for a street engine. Seriously. Another testament to Honda's incredible engineering skills.

My only quib is with the vendor making eye-brow raising power claims. Lots of people ready to spend $$$ on power, just want to make sure they understand what they're getting.

Best,
-Mirror

daicacharco

will it pass California smog ?

TodaSi

Where are these prices coming from??? Did I miss something?

aznt1217

Dude if there's anything for 05 AT's.... please let me know!

Endless-Whitetsx

Check back to page 1 for those prices...

tsxdriver

hmmm..... we won't lose any functions right?

well regardless, i'm down for a set

CCColtsicehockey

not from what I have heard. so does that mean you are getting rid of both your exhaust setups for this cause changing header and exhaust for show would be a super pain.

tsxdriver

nah still gonna be keeping them just for bragging rights lol

nah i was thinking of maybe having like a seperate display for shows

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I am conferring with the manufacturer. We will validate the information. Stay tuned. There is a wide variety of parts needed to get the max power.

Cams
Rods
Headwork
Pistons
Intake Manifold
Header
Exhaust
ECU

It is not inexpensive, by any means. But this engine responds very well. If you have ever cracked open a K-series then you know how they are built. The comparison to an F1 engine is not all that far off. The tuning available on these things is truely enabling groundbreaking NA power figures.

And with boost?????? These guys can get all 4 wheels spinning on an RDX!



Hytech has been building Ks from the get go, and he has done some great work. I for one am excited at possibly getting a TSX just so I can get these parts!

Marcus

tsxdriver

yes please keep us closely informed as information is more readily available!!

Reach

Thanks for all the support Marcus, you know you have an eager audience here.

tsxdriver

you can say that again!

TSX2345

Prices from HyTech's site

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I think there might be a discrepancy in communication.

Not everyone thinks the same thing when someone says "wheel horsepower" and not all dynos are the same.

TSX2345

"Here is the dyno data taken from the DTS Engine dyno and Churhes Dynapak chassis dyno. Surprisingly there are very close. The engine dyno numbers are 262.52 HP and 212.53 lbs of torque the chassis dyno shows 257.6 HP and 210.2 Lbs of torque. I posted the other dyno previously

The motor is Roger Foo's Grand Am TSX motor. It is a 2.4 TSX engine. The engine spec's for Grand An are 10.5 to 1 compression ratio, stock rods and pistons, no head porting, HyTech Grand Am kit which includes cams, springs, retainers, header and oil pan baffle. Fuel is Sunoco 98 octane Grand Am spec. It also uses a 60mm throttle body instead of the fly by wire one, and a Hondata K pro for tuning.

It is safe to say that our engine dyno data is very consistent with the Dynapak numbers. Doug from Hondata did the chassis dyno tuning so these are reliable numbers. You can aks him if in doubt.

The graphs are the engine dyno and the chassis dyno which compares a stock TSX to the Grand Am TSX by HyTech"

Tsx536

Yep, I've always known that the TSX engine has a ton of potential. Those kits sound very nice. It could get a pricey with all of the parts and labor involved, but those numbers speak for themselves.

I'd like to see dynos of the K24 TSX engine inside a TSX though. I know a lot of people have put them in other cars, and used engine management such as K-Pro, but what kind of numbers can we expect NA with our current TSX and engine management?

TsxDriver04

whats the official page of hytech?

TSX2345

WWW.HYTECHEXHAUST.COM

TodaSi

hitechexhst@earthlink.net
www.hytechexhaust.com
www.rsx-tuners.com

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Try not to slam John with emails....I have been speaking with him about this in depth...




260/210 is the the flywheel on this package:
cam kit, header, exhaust

CarbonGray Earl

I believe the K24 can make those numbers.....John has been doing very similar things to the K and B series engines for quite sometime now. We aren't the first car/engine Hytech has dealt with.

Even if you are a doubter, anything close to those numbers is still pretty darn good. Realize too, the Hytech is not a mass-production type of shop. We are lucky to get places like this working to get us handmade parts that make us good power AND are top-notch in quality. Frankly, with Comptech closing, we need more efforts like this and Redsh*ft to move their projects along and shops like Heeltoe to make these product accessible.

TheMirror

260/210 at the flywheel sounds like excellent numbers and entirely believable.

All the best,

-Mirror

TheMirror

That is impressively close. Dynapack seems to have their product dialed in very well.

-Mirror

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Yes, and that is stock compression and stock heads as well.

Max power so far is with complete package, welded head, and ITBs, at 315/250."!"

drunkenbuda

that dyno was dated 3years ago....wut took them so long?

jmathew34

i think hytech and hondata can come up with a retuned ecu for supercharged tsx's as well...

Marcus do you think you could find this information out?

minkl81

iTrader: (2)

I better open up seperate savings account for the Hytech setup and start saving $$ until it gets released.

TSX2345

HyTech has been around. You could find posts of me mentioning from as early as 05, which is how long I have been waiting for this system. I called HyTech shortly after I purchased my TSX which was in June 05, to offer it to John to use. Not knowing someone had already beat be, which was Shaang.

Not too many people resort to HyTech for whatever reason, but it's definately weel worth saving up for