davidspalding

Searches on this forum aren't finding the old threads of yore that I'd read. Here's what I'm trying to research....

Need new brake pads. Don't want to go with Acura OEM ... remember Hawk ceramic pads getting a lot of favorable posts, but times may be changing. I see our friend Mr. Heeltoe offers in-house kits. I don't want to change the rotors just yet (some miles left on the ext. warranty), which seems to limit me to the "Grocery Getter" level kit.

While the TSX is on the lift, I also want to invest in affordable springs/shocks to lower her about 1-1/2" and (more importantly) restrain body roll in turns. It occurs to me that a suspension change will subtly change the front bias in braking (or will it), so perhaps I need pick the suspension and brake upgrade carefully.

Here's a distraction ... the local garage who'll do the work has a set of A-spec springs that another customer tried out for a year (with a RSB), didn't like the ride and gave/sold them to the mechanic. He's offering them to me for $350. Wow, affordable (?) but then so are Heeltoe's offerings. Worth getting? I recall a lot of A-specers said the right was stiffened, car lowered only an inch, and handling performance gain was modest.

FYI, a Progress RSB seems a reasonable addition to also control the roll/lean.

Anecdotes and suggestions welcome...!

feuss2

iTrader: (1)

If you're keeping the OEM rotors, why not just stick with the OEM pads? I've used them with both the OEM rotors and now Brembo blanks. I've never felt that they were lacking in stopping power, and they've always been smooth and quiet without excessive brake dust. Aftermarket pads can bring on varying amounts of noise during operation, squeaking/squealing and more dust as a tradeoff for being more aggressive.

What is your budget for suspension, and does your number include installation? Regardless, I highly recommend springs and dampers that are specifically designed to be used together. If you try to mix and match things, you can end up in an under or overdamped condition, neither of which you will be happy with.

The car will feel different during braking once lowered (in a good way) because it will dive less. To me, it makes the brake bias feel a little more even. I changed suspension and lowered the front slightly more than the rear. This made a noticeable difference too.

You can probably get a full used Aspec suspension for the price of the springs, and you're looking for more lowering anyway.

With 1.5" of lowering, you will need a rear camber kit to get the alignment within spec.

There are lots of threads discussing RSB's which are relevant. Just place the order. You'll be glad you did.

davidspalding

Thanks, good info. So the A-spec suspension kit is more than just springs? I was concerned that what the previous TL owner jettisoned might not be the whole pkg.

Brakes

I have been musing that a good suspension change kit might effect bias so that all I need now is replacing the rear pads (the only work needed immediately, the front pads had 7mm & 8mm a year ago, the rears both 4.5mm) with OEM, and waiting for the fronts to wear out before doing a full rotor + pads replacement later. I'm only mildly satisfied with the OEM braking, I'd like something with better heat dissipation (I know, that's rotors) and less fade (which IIRC is due to pads and fluid temperature). The dealer quote on rear brake work is only $171, a lot cheaper than a full brake kit and labor at a third party.

You raise a good point ... different pads with OEM rotors limits choices a bit ... I had thought of getting ceramic, but perhaps that's an outdated upgrade path?

Suspension

Since my last research foray into all this 15 months ago when I got the Hondata reflash, I see that Heeltoe has added their own line of suspension and brake kits, which takes some of the guesswork out of it. What directed my money elsewhere was that I really only want to spend $1000 or so on parts (that's not a lot), labor will take about that much at the Honda specialist garage down the street. I won't want to put $3000 parts into car now worth $14,000. (IOW I'm not betting on recouping this on resale ... I hope to keep this car another 5-10 years.)

I see the HT-spec kit with camber kit (whch components are those?), height and firmness adjustable with Asian springs, FR and R camber kit, and Progress RSB comes to $1500 before discounts. That may be more than I want ... I just want less body lean in turns, good traction. The aesthetic value of lowering is negligible to me. Anything more affordable and requiring less parts?

(Progress rear sway bar seemed the best choice a few years ago, Comptech if you were changing the exhaust (which I won't). Seems to still be an affordable choice, but I didn't write down which size the TSX used (Heeltoe offers two).)

Addendum:

I finally found how on HT's site to pick brake pads individually ... as well as the "build your own brake kit" page. My original thinking was that Hawk ceramic brake pads were a good improvement, mated with OEM rotors ... quieter, stronger, less dust. Any thoughts?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

We actually have very reasonable brake package for the TSX; it includes all 4 rotors and pads for the TSX. The rotors are made by Powerslot/STOPTECH. They have a black coating on the hubs and vanes and the front actually has been upgraded to a curved vane for better cooling/heat dissipation. The pads are STOPTECH performance pads, which are a para-aramid compound. They are low dust, low noise pads which have good initial bite and long-term performance.

http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-401954.aspx

In terms of a reasonably priced spring/shock package I would definitely entertain a B&G setup:

http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-232439.aspx

If you have any other questions please feel free to call us at 203-483-6100 or email us at sales@excelerateperformance.com

davidspalding

Thanks for the suggestions. I don't think I want to replace rotors during this go-round, preferring to just us better pads which are compatible with the OEM rotors. (I realize that's a limitation.) I may have to negate the deviation from brake change simply due to the labor cost that's been quoted to me using third party parts.

Ck98vteC

I am in the same boat, my front oem pads are getting worn and rotors are warped so I am leaning towards Brembo blanks, I bought a set of Monroe ceramic pads already, and as for your suspension, DEFINATELY get shocks and springs together and don't leave your shocks oem on a lowered car.

I am happy with the Progress RSR as it helps regulate body roll so you should look into that also.

davidspalding

Thanks, I'm sold on the Progress RSB, too many of you have commented on it, cheap and easy to put on.

Thanks for the tips, Excelerate, looking at products on your site now.

Marcus spent some phone time with me last night (thanks again!), giving me superb advice and the benefits of his experience. I probably forgot to mention the mileage, 92,000, and he zeroed in on the shocks probably being old and getting mushy ... i.e. ready for replacement. And new, good shocks might just fix the soft body roll complaint, even without the RSB upgrade. If I need to upgrade the suspension, it's better to make the decision based on "like new" performance than old and mushy and weakened by age.

Ck98vteC, I've read multiple articles and blogs maintaining that what people think is warped rotors is actually uneven pad material. But if you know that your rotors are bad, HeelToe's Stage 1 or Stage 2 kits look like great value. I'm going with the Stage 0 kit, as my rotors are fine and have plenty of life in 'em.

Okay enough advertising, so I'm shopping for shocks to work with the stock suspension, or the A-spec kit for 5AT,... any suggestions on basic aftermarket shock replacements?

x-z24

I've looked at the link above for the brake packages you offer? do you offer other packages but with Hawk brake pads? Are those better than the stoptech ones?
Do you have a link to other packages/bundles for brakes or other items under the
"Excelerate’s package pricing for our buddies at Acurazine."

davidspalding

Not to get into a war of vendors, but HeelToe has some brake upgrade kits in increasing degrees of improvement,... I went with the Stage 0 which just replaces the pads and lines. Stage 1 or Stage 2 in a few years when my OE rotors are ready for the pasture.

For those who are reading this, I found a killer deal on the A-spec suspension kit, only $50 more or so than good shocks (which Marcus recommended I replace due to mleage), and will give me the 10% improvement that I'm craving. I've heard the A-spec is most noticeable on curves and turns -- exactly my area of concern. A Progress RSB will make that even better. (A smart owner would do the A-spec first and THEN the RSB later if needed ... but I've heard enough about the RSB replacement's value not to doubt the benefit and do it all at once.)

curls

I did the RSB before springs and shocks. The RSB change from stock was immediately noticeable and very much worth the $100 and 1 hour of my time to install it. Absolutely a very effective and inexpensive mod.

I have Tein H-Tech springs (1.1" F, 0.75" R lowering), with Tokico HP ("Blue") shocks. Good setup, inexpensive, and although I'd prefer Koni's, the Tokico's have held up just fine and provide a compliant ride.

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

You can buy individual components with Hawk pads. Just look under Powerslot/STOPTECH after choosing your vehicle on our website:

http://store.excelerateperformance.com

The Hawk pads are good. I've had better experiences with the STOPTECH pads. They have less dust and noise than the HPS pad and more bite than the Ceramic pad. And they are less expensive.

http://www.stoptech.com/Products/hig...nce_pads.shtml

Top pad on the list.

davidspalding

Thanks. A coworker who's done several mods recommended changes in the following order:

1. Brakes
2. Shock & springs
3. Sway bar
4. Chip

I already broke this strategy by getting Hondata first (and not long before the price dropped, d'oh! ), and I'm doing brakes now that the rear pads are about done. Doing suspension work while the wheels were already off made sense (and I got a modest raise).

Doing the A-spec kit since it didn't cost much more than just good Koni shocks, and this way I get a new Acura-made suspension refit that establishes a baseline. (Note, I'm not desiring adjustable ride or drop, I'm sure they have value, but not something I'd use at this point.) I just noticed that the A-spec kit doesn't include a RSB change out, so I figure the modest improvement of the Progress will complement Acura kit nicely.

Doing it all at once so I won't be able to judge either the kit or the RSB on their own. But I realize now that putting a new, strong RSB on mushy, 5 year old springs and shocks (as I pondered in 2010) would be silly.

Not to deprecate anyone's participation, I appreciate each and every reply to my inquiry. I love this board. (group hug postponed until later)

xaznperswaesonx

Don't know how much tools you have or your experience in automotive. https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-performance-parts-modifications-126/diy-brake-pads-rotor-replacement-790452/ is a DIY on brakes. check it out so you can get a feel if it's doable for you or not.

Brakes: from the link, as you can see, i'm running Racingbrake slotted rotor and RB500 pads in the rear due to our car's rear pad wearing out faster than the front. If your front pad and rotor is still thick, base on price wise ... don't upgrade em as they most likely still work and is sufficient. I myself is still on the OEM front set. If your steering wheel is shaking under braking, do a brake bed-in procedure found on mrheeltoe's website.

Suspension: with your requirement, i'd recommend either the A-Spec kit or the Nuespeed sport spring kit. both are $600-700. Depends on how much lowering you'll do, you might need a rear camber kit as the nuespeed kit has more lowering option than the aspec. also, do the rsb. definately worth the 100-150 bucks.

xaznperswaesonx

btw .. the nuespeed sport spring does include neuspeed's version of the konis. and they are more firm than the aspec kit

davidspalding

Has anyone done a RSB change and found they needed a new front sway bar? I'm hearing from the install shop that beefing up the rear without comparable change to the front could cause minor steering anomaly in hard turns. (I'm not even sure who sells a FSB replacement.)

IIRC most of this forum's members have found that changing the RSB was sufficient.

BTW, Marcus' advice a few years ago to unbolt the exhaust (DIYers, remember to support it!) to slide the RSB out was spot on.

curls

FSB does not need to be changed. The point of the RSB is to make the rear end stiffer in relation to the front, in order to balance out the handling (almost, but not quite, at oversteer levels). FWD cars are typically engineered to understeer as its "safer" for an average A-B grocery getter driver. With any performance driving in mind, or to simply increase the fun-factor, getting rid of understeer is easy and inexpensive, not to mention effective!

SoCaliTrojan

[QUOTE=davidspalding;12720654]Has anyone done a RSB change and found they needed a new front sway bar? I'm hearing from the install shop that beefing up the rear without comparable change to the front could cause minor steering anomaly in hard turns. (I'm not even sure who sells a FSB replacement.) QUOTE]

As mentioned above, FWD cars are designed to slightly understeer on turns. For the average driver, they can easily correct themselves from an understeer condition. If the car were to oversteer, they might panic, over-correct, and end up crashing.

By upgrading the RSB only, the car becomes more neutral (less understeer). If you added a FSB, it would re-introduce some understeer (a full set of both FSB and RSB are designed together to understeer so that they won't be blamed for accidents).

davidspalding

Thanks, guys. I think I'd read that in years past. The shop owner (who's raced for years, definitely was the right guy to take this work to; we were chatting while I was checking this thread again) was concerned that the beefier RSB would create characteristics that I should "be careful of." No more understeer. Got it. (I'll probably benefit from some SCCA instruction and track experience.)

First drive after installation, although it's no doubt got to settle in a bit as per jwood_06tsx's fine review, all I can say is....



WOW!

Not just improved performance and handling, but a better ride overall. I'm convinced that the A-spec suspension is what the engineers originally meant this car to ride on. Impressions post to follow in a few weeks....