Where's My VTEC?
#1
Where's My VTEC?
I had an interesting experience with a loaner while my 05 CGP AT (no mods) was in the shop. They gave me an 06 AT loaner with about 16K miles on it. The power at the vtec point was completely different (read 'better') than my 05. I was stunned that the car really jumped into another mode, accelerated hard and was was a lot louder than mine at higher rpm. I have read countless cases on the forum of people diggin' the vtec but frankly, my car had no different pull or sound as I pass 6000 rpm. I patiently wait for it to wind up and shift heading toward 7000 rpm but it's a little bland. The 2006 car was completely different and now I know what you all must be talking about. I've been thinking that my problem was the AT and its gearing but now I wonder if something's wrong with the computer/power etc. Any ideas or smilar experiences?
#2
I've never driven anything newer than my 05 (6MT), and I too do not notice any VTEC transition. I've read comments on VTEC kick and sounds, and have even watched videos on YouTube where the changeover is really obvious, but no such experience in the 05 TSX. I used to wonder if there was something wrong as well, but I've come to accept the fact that the VTEC in TSX just isn't as intense as a Civic SI. Now I'd like to know if there is something wrong knowing that the 06 is a completely different experience. The fellas over at Honda probably just did a little upgrading for the newer models.
#5
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I have to agree. I have an 04, and feel the same. I had an Accord V6 before I bought my TSX, and i did feel when it kicked in. I just assumed it was less noticable in the TSX. Now, I have to wonder.
#7
Originally Posted by TacoBellSauce
those were all VTEC engines, the TSX has i-VTEC which does not "kick in" but rather smoothly engages...as for the 06, it has more horses, thats why you feel it
I agree, i-Vtec has different engagement characteristics.
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#8
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Originally Posted by TacoBellSauce
those were all VTEC engines, the TSX has i-VTEC which does not "kick in" but rather smoothly engages...as for the 06, it has more horses, thats why you feel it
#10
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by TacoBellSauce
those were all VTEC engines, the TSX has i-VTEC which does not "kick in" but rather smoothly engages...
#11
Why would someone say the 06 has 10-15hp over the 05 model? The published change is 5 more hp. Usually, 5hp is unnoticeable. If I thought even 10hp felt that different I'd be out doing bolt on mods today. I'd like to drive a 6sp and see what difference the gearing makes. I get the feeling that with different ratios (more radical than the difference in AT vs. 6sp), I'd be a lot happier on the bottom end while paying the price in gas mileage. BTW....No need to comment on how I should buy a different car if I want more power ....love the car, balance and value, actually chose this over a TL at test drive. But there's nothing wrong with wanting more ...at least 225hp
#12
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Originally Posted by Tex929rr
My 2002 CR-V had i-VTEC, and had a pronounced jump when the cams shifted. On my 07 TSX it's undetectable. But so what? If the system really works as designed, the change should be unnoticeable.
I-VTEC on the CRV engine(k24a3) and RSX base(k20a3)does no change the cam lift or duration like the i-VTEC on the TSX(k24a2) or the RSX type-s(k20a2) or newer civic si(k20a2). What it does do it keep one valve closed untill the engagement point. I believe this to be fairly low 3000rpm. Then the other valve opens up. This is purly for emissions and not performance.
on a side note. I do feel i-VTEC kick in at 6K on my 04 6M. There is no difference in sound so it is hard to hear.
#13
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#14
Originally Posted by TSXCoot
Why would someone say the 06 has 10-15hp over the 05 model? The published change is 5 more hp.
#15
Driver/Detailer
Originally Posted by TSXCoot
Why would someone say the 06 has 10-15hp over the 05 model? The published change is 5 more hp. Usually, 5hp is unnoticeable. If I thought even 10hp felt that different I'd be out doing bolt on mods today. I'd like to drive a 6sp and see what difference the gearing makes. I get the feeling that with different ratios (more radical than the difference in AT vs. 6sp), I'd be a lot happier on the bottom end while paying the price in gas mileage. BTW....No need to comment on how I should buy a different car if I want more power ....love the car, balance and value, actually chose this over a TL at test drive. But there's nothing wrong with wanting more ...at least 225hp
#16
Originally Posted by jernut
EDIT: engine codes might be wrong, this is all for memory and cannot find the information to verify
I-VTEC on the CRV engine(k24a3) and RSX base(k20a3)does no change the cam lift or duration like the i-VTEC on the TSX(k24a2) or the RSX type-s(k20a2) or newer civic si(k20a2). What it does do it keep one valve closed untill the engagement point. I believe this to be fairly low 3000rpm. Then the other valve opens up. This is purly for emissions and not performance.
on a side note. I do feel i-VTEC kick in at 6K on my 04 6M. There is no difference in sound so it is hard to hear.
I-VTEC on the CRV engine(k24a3) and RSX base(k20a3)does no change the cam lift or duration like the i-VTEC on the TSX(k24a2) or the RSX type-s(k20a2) or newer civic si(k20a2). What it does do it keep one valve closed untill the engagement point. I believe this to be fairly low 3000rpm. Then the other valve opens up. This is purly for emissions and not performance.
on a side note. I do feel i-VTEC kick in at 6K on my 04 6M. There is no difference in sound so it is hard to hear.
Just clear up the engine codes here for US.
CRV K24a1 i-vtec on intake cam only
Accord/Element K24a4 i-vtec on intake cam only
RSX/Civic SI-02-05 K20a3 i-vtec on intake cam only
RSX-S 02-04 K20a2 i-vtec on both intake and exhaust cams
RSX-S 05-06 K20z1 i-vtec on both intake and exhaust cams
Civic SI 06-07 K20z3 i-vtec on both intake and exhaust cams
TSX K24a2 i-vtec on both intake and exhaust cams
Yeah my first post.
#17
Originally Posted by pnoi521
LMAO!
That sucks if it doesn't really 'kick in' cause it's pretty sweet in my TL
That sucks if it doesn't really 'kick in' cause it's pretty sweet in my TL
IMO, if you want to feel the vtec "kick-in," jump into an Integra Type R with a CAI. Those cam lobes didn't have any luxury intention whatsoever.
#18
Registered TL Owner
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
My experiences driving a stock TL is that it's almost just as undetectable. The TL has a much more older, less tuned Honda engine with only one cam and I think it's pretty much displacement you're feeling similar to my Honda Pilot that has only vtec lobes for the intake side.
IMO, if you want to feel the vtec "kick-in," jump into an Integra Type R with a CAI. Those cam lobes didn't have any luxury intention whatsoever.
IMO, if you want to feel the vtec "kick-in," jump into an Integra Type R with a CAI. Those cam lobes didn't have any luxury intention whatsoever.
#20
Originally Posted by TacoBellSauce
those were all VTEC engines, the TSX has i-VTEC which does not "kick in" but rather smoothly engages...as for the 06, it has more horses, thats why you feel it
The effect is somewhat like having your A/C compressor cycle off while you're accelerating, a small but sudden burst of extra power all at once.
#21
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Originally Posted by rb1
Actually, the 06/07 VTEC switchover is quite pronounced. The torque is starting to roll off some as you approach 6000 RPM, and then it's suddenly back just like you flipped a switch.
The effect is somewhat like having your A/C compressor cycle off while you're accelerating, a small but sudden burst of extra power all at once.
The effect is somewhat like having your A/C compressor cycle off while you're accelerating, a small but sudden burst of extra power all at once.
Very true - VTEC almost feels like a low burst turbocharger kicking in at 6K. It is noticeable in acceleration and in sound. This is caused by a third and larger lobe on the cam shaft actuating valve lift (once at 6K rpms). That is the Variable Timing Electron shift Control portion of iVTEC and is only apparent on high end gains.
The "i" portion (intelligent) is where you will experience small low end gains. This is the continuasly variable camshaft phasing.
For more on this, wikipedia "VTEC". There is a great description on the history of VTEC, advancements and technical description.
#22
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I actually did a write on this when i traded in my 04 for my 06 because it was VERY pronounced! I wouldn't say its like a turbo charger but its def a big surge of power and more so sound. My g/f was in the car with me this weekend when i hit it in both 1st and 2nd gear and she was like "i really like how it gets louder and then screams"
The engagement into 1st gear is not a kick but its def a strong pull but when you hit it in 2nd gear its a little more of a kick from what i have experienced in my car
The engagement into 1st gear is not a kick but its def a strong pull but when you hit it in 2nd gear its a little more of a kick from what i have experienced in my car
#23
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
My experiences driving a stock TL is that it's almost just as undetectable. The TL has a much more older, less tuned Honda engine with only one cam and I think it's pretty much displacement you're feeling similar to my Honda Pilot that has only vtec lobes for the intake side.
IMO, if you want to feel the vtec "kick-in," jump into an Integra Type R with a CAI. Those cam lobes didn't have any luxury intention whatsoever.
IMO, if you want to feel the vtec "kick-in," jump into an Integra Type R with a CAI. Those cam lobes didn't have any luxury intention whatsoever.
I'm going to have to agree with Black_6spd. I had a '97 Prelude SH before getting the TL. When the DOHC VTEC kicked in with the prelude you felt and heard it big time. It felt like going from a 4 cyl to a V6. The TL does not have anything like that which is completely disappointing. I think it's part of the reason my driving habits have changed. I now try to keep it below 2000 rpm to save on gas because getting it up over 5000 rpm isn't quite as satisfying. But don't get me wrong, the TL is faster than my old prelude, just not as fun to drive at the higher speeds.
#24
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by evolpe
I had a '97 Prelude SH before getting the TL. When the DOHC VTEC kicked in with the prelude you felt and heard it big time.
Yup, same with my 98 GS-R. it was great. I can barely feel it on my 04.
#27
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by joerockt
With my intake, I can definitely hear it more then I can feel it.
I just put my Injen back on this past weekend. I was getting bored.
With the CAD$ almost at par I might have to order Hondata.
#30
Originally Posted by ninjamyst
I feel like at 6k with my 06 MT. Sucks there's only 1k of room to play with before you have to shift again. I want Hondata but too lazy to take out the ecu.
I hope in the near future I can buy a Kpro ECU for this car, and add a 45-50 degree vtec to it.
#31
for EVER more!
Originally Posted by Gilmour
I'm in the same boat as you. I don't want the down time.
I hope in the near future I can buy a Kpro ECU for this car, and add a 45-50 degree vtec to it.
I hope in the near future I can buy a Kpro ECU for this car, and add a 45-50 degree vtec to it.
#33
Originally Posted by evolpe
I'm going to have to agree with Black_6spd. I had a '97 Prelude SH before getting the TL. When the DOHC VTEC kicked in with the prelude you felt and heard it big time. It felt like going from a 4 cyl to a V6. The TL does not have anything like that which is completely disappointing. I think it's part of the reason my driving habits have changed. I now try to keep it below 2000 rpm to save on gas because getting it up over 5000 rpm isn't quite as satisfying. But don't get me wrong, the TL is faster than my old prelude, just not as fun to drive at the higher speeds.
#36
Originally Posted by ATsxMan8305
Would VTEC engage while in AT mode? Or will the tranny purposely shift before VTEC? Then the only way would b to use SS mode
#37
Originally Posted by ATsxMan8305
Would VTEC engage while in AT mode? Or will the tranny purposely shift before VTEC? Then the only way would b to use SS mode
#38
Originally Posted by rb1
Just as a general rule, AT's are usually "programmed" (at least for cars with electronically controlled transmissions) to shift at the redline if you keep the motor at full throttle.
#40
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06 NBP 5AT here.. i hit VTEC on my way to work because i was thinking of this thread.
2nd gear in SS mode.. going up a fairly long hill. hit that 6000 RPM (was at about 60MPH at that point) and the car went WOOOOOOOOOO. hehe it was fun.
2nd gear in SS mode.. going up a fairly long hill. hit that 6000 RPM (was at about 60MPH at that point) and the car went WOOOOOOOOOO. hehe it was fun.