TSX wins C&D 30k comparo (scans inside)/link p. 6
09-06-2004, 10:18 PM
#81
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Age: 49
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ClutchPerformer
Right. So they must really be impressed with the TSX if it overturned their RWD bias.
09-06-2004, 10:28 PM
#82
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm gonna chime in since I testdriven (is that a word) or driven a friend's of all the cars in the comparison, plus I can say I've driven not only the 325, but also the 330 and the European 318. Plus, my father says the most clever things about these cars.
I had a review of the Scoobie before. The thing that works against the GT on this playing field is the quality. As stated before, this car is actually a blast to drive... and as TSX members can attest, numbers don't do justice to the driving experience in total. The AWD gives a different driving characteristic then the RWD or the FWD. The car is pretty fun to drive. If it hadn't been the dealer's car from where my friend works, I would have loved to thrash this car to it's limits. But what really does this car in is the quality. The design and the layout might look better in pictures, but just go SEE this thing in person. There is no improvements in quality from the new model from the outgoing model. Isn't quieter nor are the materials much better. The whole thing about this car is AWD and power to spare. And if you like all that at a price of 28k+, then it's all good. But my father chimes in and says "would you really pay 28k for a Subaru?"... which is a good point.
The Audi is the most solidly built car of the lot. Love the TSX, but the quality of the A4 is unmatchable, even by BMW in some terms. The fit and finish is great, and the tone of the design of the car is classy. The 1.8T has a thrashy engine, that is true. And the engine whine can be readily heard through the cabin. The backseats are nearly a joke, especially if the front passengers are more then 5'8'. But then again, why by a base A4 with no Quattro when you can just go with a loaded Passat? Plus, the problems that an A4 can come with are way too much to deal with. My father loves, I mean LOVES Audi's, but he admits that the VW component sharing, along with the new 'gaping' grill, is turing Audi into the mundane.
The Volvo, good lord, I can't believe what C&D is saying... once again, not a big fan of the American magazine reviewers... they seem to hold back too much in what they are really thinking, just in case the makers don't like the reviews and don't send them testers as promptly as those that review favorably... but I digress. The S40, first of all, is TINY... I mean midget tiny. If there are adults that can fit into the back of this car, they must be certified midgets. No leg room, no shoulder room... what am I saying, NO ROOM for anything. You put a 'domn dog' back there, it might suffecate. Then comes the quality of the materials in this car. This car has worse plastic then the Scoobie, which would put it nicely in the Mazda3 or Civic plastic range. Sure, the center console looks spiffy and awe-inspiring, but it sucks when you see it amongst the vast expanse of 'gray' sub-par plastic. And I dont' know where the C&D guys are buying their T5, but last time I checked in at a Volvo dealership (2 months ago, buying a car for a family friend), the T5 was at least 30k with similar equipement of the others in the comparison. A base T5 has no leather, no moonroof, 16's, and base stereo system. Add in all that, and you get 30k. As my father would say "A volvo, no matter how hot it gets, is still a volvo"... well said. Plus, at a similar price, you get a more luxurious, more capable A4.
Which then brings us to the TSX. And, for the first time in my life, I agree with what C&D is saying about the TSX. It is a sport sedan that does everything well... not great or fantastic, but well. And with a price tag that this thing has, it's a damn near steal. The TSX is the closest thing to the A4 in terms of quality in this comparison, has Honda reliability, and comes at a much lower price then it's competitors. Sure, it could use more power, but I dare you to find any car that couldn't use a little more power. It is like that little black dress of fashion; it isn't all that spectacular in style, nor is it fancy or eye catching in any way, but man, does it always come through for some reason. Most European mags have said that the Euro Accord is a bit bland in design, but have never faulted the quality or driving sense of the Euro Accord. My father says it would be the sensible person's sport sedan.
The 318 was a joke to drive, an econo-car engine in a sub lux car. Man, did that thing blow. No wonder they quit that silly 318 import. The 325 is nice and well, especially when fully loaded, but lacks that umph since it feels so heavy. The 330, in my opinion, is the perfect balance. Great engine, great handling, and nice interior. But the 330 costs alot more.
So, for a sub 30k car, the TSX would be a frontrunner... long as it competes in that catagory and not any higher, say the ~30k range where the european competition, along with the G35 sedan, come into play.
phew, I feel like a car review or something...
Junkster, who wonders how those reviewers get their jobs
I had a review of the Scoobie before. The thing that works against the GT on this playing field is the quality. As stated before, this car is actually a blast to drive... and as TSX members can attest, numbers don't do justice to the driving experience in total. The AWD gives a different driving characteristic then the RWD or the FWD. The car is pretty fun to drive. If it hadn't been the dealer's car from where my friend works, I would have loved to thrash this car to it's limits. But what really does this car in is the quality. The design and the layout might look better in pictures, but just go SEE this thing in person. There is no improvements in quality from the new model from the outgoing model. Isn't quieter nor are the materials much better. The whole thing about this car is AWD and power to spare. And if you like all that at a price of 28k+, then it's all good. But my father chimes in and says "would you really pay 28k for a Subaru?"... which is a good point.
The Audi is the most solidly built car of the lot. Love the TSX, but the quality of the A4 is unmatchable, even by BMW in some terms. The fit and finish is great, and the tone of the design of the car is classy. The 1.8T has a thrashy engine, that is true. And the engine whine can be readily heard through the cabin. The backseats are nearly a joke, especially if the front passengers are more then 5'8'. But then again, why by a base A4 with no Quattro when you can just go with a loaded Passat? Plus, the problems that an A4 can come with are way too much to deal with. My father loves, I mean LOVES Audi's, but he admits that the VW component sharing, along with the new 'gaping' grill, is turing Audi into the mundane.
The Volvo, good lord, I can't believe what C&D is saying... once again, not a big fan of the American magazine reviewers... they seem to hold back too much in what they are really thinking, just in case the makers don't like the reviews and don't send them testers as promptly as those that review favorably... but I digress. The S40, first of all, is TINY... I mean midget tiny. If there are adults that can fit into the back of this car, they must be certified midgets. No leg room, no shoulder room... what am I saying, NO ROOM for anything. You put a 'domn dog' back there, it might suffecate. Then comes the quality of the materials in this car. This car has worse plastic then the Scoobie, which would put it nicely in the Mazda3 or Civic plastic range. Sure, the center console looks spiffy and awe-inspiring, but it sucks when you see it amongst the vast expanse of 'gray' sub-par plastic. And I dont' know where the C&D guys are buying their T5, but last time I checked in at a Volvo dealership (2 months ago, buying a car for a family friend), the T5 was at least 30k with similar equipement of the others in the comparison. A base T5 has no leather, no moonroof, 16's, and base stereo system. Add in all that, and you get 30k. As my father would say "A volvo, no matter how hot it gets, is still a volvo"... well said. Plus, at a similar price, you get a more luxurious, more capable A4.
Which then brings us to the TSX. And, for the first time in my life, I agree with what C&D is saying about the TSX. It is a sport sedan that does everything well... not great or fantastic, but well. And with a price tag that this thing has, it's a damn near steal. The TSX is the closest thing to the A4 in terms of quality in this comparison, has Honda reliability, and comes at a much lower price then it's competitors. Sure, it could use more power, but I dare you to find any car that couldn't use a little more power. It is like that little black dress of fashion; it isn't all that spectacular in style, nor is it fancy or eye catching in any way, but man, does it always come through for some reason. Most European mags have said that the Euro Accord is a bit bland in design, but have never faulted the quality or driving sense of the Euro Accord. My father says it would be the sensible person's sport sedan.
The 318 was a joke to drive, an econo-car engine in a sub lux car. Man, did that thing blow. No wonder they quit that silly 318 import. The 325 is nice and well, especially when fully loaded, but lacks that umph since it feels so heavy. The 330, in my opinion, is the perfect balance. Great engine, great handling, and nice interior. But the 330 costs alot more.
So, for a sub 30k car, the TSX would be a frontrunner... long as it competes in that catagory and not any higher, say the ~30k range where the european competition, along with the G35 sedan, come into play.
phew, I feel like a car review or something...
Junkster, who wonders how those reviewers get their jobs
09-07-2004, 03:45 AM
#85
Race Director
Originally Posted by Junkster
seriously, if I didn't want to go to med school SOOOOO much, I would so do auto reviewer.
Junkster, who thinks that could be his hobby later in life
Junkster, who thinks that could be his hobby later in life
09-07-2004, 09:53 AM
#88
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ClutchPerformer
STI 
Good review!
Good review!
Junkster, who thinks some of the Outbacks were way too much
09-07-2004, 09:55 AM
#89
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Junkster
True, but that's a near exotic car. Personally, I would find it hard to pay over 28k (I want the limited GT wagon) for a car with a Scoobie badge on it.
Junkster, who thinks some of the Outbacks were way too much
Junkster, who thinks some of the Outbacks were way too much
I was riding throught SOA's lot where they place new cars for redistribution... shocking how expensive some Outbacks (H6) are.
jcg, who doesn't see the point of the H6 now
09-07-2004, 09:59 AM
#90
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 5,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Can you find an STI for 28k? 
09-07-2004, 10:41 AM
#92
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 5,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
So leaving out the STi, is there another Subaru you'd pay $28k for?
09-07-2004, 11:53 AM
#93
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the GT is a good car, but with cheap parts and build quality, I would be hard pressed to pick it over the TSX.
Clutch, I'm assuming you've seen and driven the GT.
Junkster, who thinks the cheap plastic really turned him off
Clutch, I'm assuming you've seen and driven the GT.
Junkster, who thinks the cheap plastic really turned him off
09-07-2004, 12:31 PM
#94
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 5,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Junkster
....Clutch, I'm assuming you've seen and driven the GT.....
If I had to tell YOU what car to buy at $28k, I'd say TSX w/ navi hands down.
09-07-2004, 12:39 PM
#95
Teh ?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 46
Posts: 12,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ClutchPerformer
I have. And I didn't say I'd pick it over a TSX. I have the benefit of already pwning (that was a totally unintentional typo, but it's funny so I'll leave it in there) a TSX. So I don't have to make a comparison. If I had to tell YOU what car to buy at $28k, I'd say TSX w/ navi hands down.
If I had to tell YOU what car to buy at $28k, I'd say TSX w/ navi hands down.
... you said PWN...I could see buying a STi for that cost, since it is a really special car in it's own little catagory. I'm just saying that the Subaru badge and quality isn't what I would consider entry lux.
Is the navi that handy? I haven't pwned a car with navi nor used navi before, so I can't say.
Junkster, who would go without navi... if and when he gets a TSX
09-07-2004, 12:43 PM
#96
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 5,449
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Junkster
... you said PWN.....I don't consider Subaru to be competitive in entry lux, either. All I'm saying is that I wouldn't have a problem paying $28k for those two Subarus (and $30k+ for the STI)
It's not the handiness that I would recommend navi for (nobody NEEDS navi), it's the coolness. It's a lot more than just something to tell you where to turn. Take it from someone who didn't get it.
09-08-2004, 11:27 AM
#98
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by ClutchPerformer
Now I'm guessing that that's how that whole thing got started.
09-08-2004, 11:40 AM
#100
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by domn
What about it?
And the winner was...Subaru Legacy GT Limited.
09-08-2004, 11:44 AM
#101
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DEI99662
I have not seen the magazine yet, but I have heard that Road & Track did an comparison between the Subaru Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX.
And the winner was...Subaru Legacy GT Limited.
And the winner was...Subaru Legacy GT Limited.
09-08-2004, 11:45 AM
#103
Originally Posted by DEI99662
I have not seen the magazine yet, but I have heard that Road & Track did an comparison between the Subaru Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX.
And the winner was...Subaru Legacy GT Limited.
And the winner was...Subaru Legacy GT Limited.
09-08-2004, 11:46 AM
#104
Senior Moderator
Not funny, just another opinion on the subject I guess. I still say its an apples to oranges comparison to a degree. I don't think ALOT of people will cross shop the two.
09-08-2004, 11:48 AM
#105
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
I'd put my money on different criteria. If they were just doing a head to head, performance-wise, the Legacy stomps the TSX. But in all other categories, the TSX pretty much OWNS the Legacy. Just a trade-off of what you're looking for.
09-08-2004, 11:49 AM
#106
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jcg878
jcg, who doesn't see the point of the H6 now
There, I refuted my own statement.
09-08-2004, 11:50 AM
#107
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by fdl
u heard a rumour about a car mag article? whats your source? Some joker on the subie board?
I'm not saying its not true, just wondering.
whats your source? Some joker on the subie board? I'm not saying its not true, just wondering.
"Will their be a nine page thread over at acuratsx.com complaining about these R&T results? LOL. "
EDIT: I am also a member at this forum.
09-08-2004, 11:54 AM
#108
Originally Posted by jcg878
But performance-wise... does it? C&D didn't seem to think so, and I was surprised. It scored last of the 4 in chassis, and they commented that it didn't feel sporty except for the straightaway speed.
09-08-2004, 11:57 AM
#110
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DEI99662
http://www.legacygt.com/viewtopic.ph...er=asc&start=0
"Will their be a nine page thread over at acuratsx.com complaining about these R&T results? LOL. "
"Will their be a nine page thread over at acuratsx.com complaining about these R&T results? LOL. "
To each his own... those comments are funny
09-08-2004, 11:57 AM
#111
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by DEI99662
"Will their be a nine page thread over at acuratsx.com complaining about these R&T results? LOL. "
Still waiting for a scan though. He said its on the stands ... so ...
09-08-2004, 11:59 AM
#112
Instructor
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver BC Canada
Age: 50
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by domn
Not funny, just another opinion on the subject I guess. I still say its an apples to oranges comparison to a degree. I don't think ALOT of people will cross shop the two.
09-08-2004, 04:55 PM
#115
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by DEI99662
After doing more research, this may not be true. I believe the Acura TSX won this comparison.
EDIT: BTW 1300!
But I am still a 
EDIT: BTW 1300!
But I am still a
09-08-2004, 05:39 PM
#116
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-08-2004, 06:17 PM
#117
Type S personality
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bananaairsoft
Domn, I did just that! I had a hard time between TL/Legacy/TSX. And I bought the TSX! They are all great cars! But the TSX has the most value! Can you believe Legacy at almost the same price as TL and no HID!
Same here man!
09-08-2004, 06:20 PM
#118
Photography Nerd
Here's a highlight on p.4:
Too late.
Actually I only really see magazines as a starting point when I'm car shopping. This sort of article would likely get me to test drive the top 3 and see if I can pick up on the same flaws as the reviewer. Unless C&D said "whatever you do, don't buy X car" chances are I'll still drive it to see what it's all about.
Besides, this article really didn't trash any of the cars. I got the impression from the article that really any of the cars would be good choices.
Man, this is getting embarrassing. I hope nobody comes from other forums and reads this...
Actually I only really see magazines as a starting point when I'm car shopping. This sort of article would likely get me to test drive the top 3 and see if I can pick up on the same flaws as the reviewer. Unless C&D said "whatever you do, don't buy X car" chances are I'll still drive it to see what it's all about.
Besides, this article really didn't trash any of the cars. I got the impression from the article that really any of the cars would be good choices.
09-08-2004, 06:40 PM
#119
Obnoxious Philadelphian
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Jersey
Age: 47
Posts: 5,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Actually I only really see magazines as a starting point when I'm car shopping. This sort of article would likely get me to test drive the top 3 and see if I can pick up on the same flaws as the reviewer. Unless C&D said "whatever you do, don't buy X car" chances are I'll still drive it to see what it's all about.
Besides, this article really didn't trash any of the cars. I got the impression from the article that really any of the cars would be good choices.
Besides, this article really didn't trash any of the cars. I got the impression from the article that really any of the cars would be good choices.
I just thought it was funny they linked to my thread/scan
Has that spy made an appearance here??
09-08-2004, 06:42 PM
#120
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Age: 49
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see this thread in this light. Most of the posters here own a TSX and yeah...our car got ranked #1 by a "credible" publication. Please keep in mind that I use credible in a very loose sense. I just finished reading some of the posts from the link jcg878 provided and all of them are peeved.
My point is if you were to drop 26000 USD, you would want to see your car rated as #1. People want to justify their purchases. No one would really like to hear someone say to you, "wow, nice car, but this other car is much better." Obviously people buy for different reasons and one of the Legacy's main selling point is the fact that it's got a lot of horses under the hood.
My point is if you were to drop 26000 USD, you would want to see your car rated as #1. People want to justify their purchases. No one would really like to hear someone say to you, "wow, nice car, but this other car is much better." Obviously people buy for different reasons and one of the Legacy's main selling point is the fact that it's got a lot of horses under the hood.