Dirk Diggs

I am curious to see if anyone has considered the new 2006 Lincoln Zephyr in their car search. I absolutely love the TSX, but upon seeing one of these in person, I am tempted.

Now, bear in mind, the Zephyr has a 3.0L Duratec V-6 (w/ dual exhaust) that is around 221 horsepower (I am estimating based on my Ford Fusion product knowledge), while the TSX has a 4 cylinder @ 205 horsepower. This leads me off on another tangent (why are import engines so much quieter, more fuel efficient, and generally more powerful?), but I digress...

Available options on the Zephyr:

Interior-Satin Aluminum Package - $125
17" Chrome Aluminum 8-spoke wheels - $895
Power Moonroof - $1,200
DVD Navigation System - $2,495
THX Certified Premium Sound System - $995
HID Headlamps - $495
Perforated Premium Leather Cooled Front Seats - $495
-Heated seats are standard

Now if I price one out to be comparable with the TSX's STANDARD equipment (moonroof and HID headlamps), I get an MSRP of $31,355 (w/out navigation).

Has anyone driven both vehicles, and what were your impressions?

I like the look of both cars, however, I think the TSX looks a lot younger without being "teenager-ish", and that will be a deciding factor in the end. The Zephyr's lines look pretty good stock (which I think the TSX lacks, which is why I would get that body kit).

Lemme know if I have missed anything too...

Diggs

I didn't search beforehand, so if this has already been posted, I apologize.

Dirk Diggs

I searched afterwards, and found a different thread. Sorry for being redundant.

loulinjai

not to be bias or against anyone or anything...but i think the choice is pretty clear, just drive both vehicles and see which one u like more, its the only way u know

stewie20068

Your profile says you are a ford sales consultant...why would we help you sell zephyrs by giving you weak points of the TSX? We're an acura site. Plus I can't imagine a FORD product coming anywhere near sports sedan territory. Sounds to me like you're using acurazine to give the zephyr publicity.

CCColtsicehockey

like said above it looks like you are looking for reasons to explain to customers why the zephyr is better. maybe you have a customer right now that is looking at both. I say there is one clear answer the TSX is better. also to tell you the truth I have never been a fan of ford build quality.

Dirk Diggs

I'm still only stroking the two vehicles, but the Zephyr is the only car I have seen since the TSX that I have liked (apples to apples).

I just wanted to get some feedback if someone else has driven the two. I don't want to go into an Acura dealership or a Lincoln dealership until I am ready to buy. I've seen other salespeople do that, and I wanted to punch them.

Everything I have learned from this forum leads me to believe the TSX is very well refined, and is very balanced. I love a car that can whip through turns quickly, and it looks great, with a lot of nice options.

I have driven the Fusion almost daily, and the four wheel independant suspension is really nice for handling...I just don't like the look of it. That is where the TSX comes in (with the body kit). I can't get a manual transmission in it though.

Next year the Zephyr will get the Ford Edge's engine (3.5L Duratec V6) which will have approximately 250 horsepower. This is gonna be a tough decision.

I can get D-Plan on these things too...I just really like the TSX, so I need help in the form of feedback (before I go stroke some poor salesperson).

Thanks for any input,

Diggs

EDIT: I don't sell Lincolns...I am seriously considering the two. Please take my posts for what they are, I am not trolling, and I'm not looking for weak points in the TSX. There would be no way in hell that I could bad-mouth the TSX to ANY of my customers, because Ford (specific) doesn't have anything that comes close. Seriously...

LuvMyTSX

Well, I remember from another thread that he said he's interested in buying a TSX. Maybe he's still shopping around? I dunno. TSX is better anyway...why in the world would anyone pay $30K for a souped up Ford Fusion? I haven't seen any of the 3 "siblings" - Fusion, Milan, or Zephyr (dude, what's with the weird name, anyway?) in person, so I can't really give much of an opinion on how they look (except for the ugly grilles), but based on past experiences with American brands in general, they're probably quite placticky on the inside, which feels incredibly cheap to me. Plus, if they're anything like the Ford Focus, they're not worth a dime. My friend has the biggest POS Focus ever and can't wait to get rid of it. Problem after problem...

TSX is better, just get it!

Sclass88

The Zephyr is a decent looking car but to me, the clear winner of the two is the TSX. Ford's typically have poor build quality and don't have the resale value that an Acura has. Also, the TSX has many more standard features that are well made and the navigation system in the TSX, though I don't have it, is one of the best in the industry. Ford navigation systems are not in the same league.

All in all, I'd rather drive the Acura and know that its reliability is one of the best in the industry than drive the Lincoln and question its reliability.

Oh, and if you're a Ford Sales Consultant, you'd be an idiot to look outside of Ford because I assume you would get great rebates on Ford products.

Dirk Diggs

I drive a Focus... :lmao:

...but it is free.

I love cars, but I get fanatical on specific ones (the TSX being one of them), which is why I signed up here.

I don't want to be selling cars forever...so when I move on (after I get married shortly), I'm gonna be buying one.

LOL...trust me...I wouldn't even consider the Zephyr if it was anything like the Focus. My friend has an '05 TL and that is what got me looking at Acuras.

It should say alot that I sell domestic, and am looking at an "import".

Plus...if I could get one that looked like Colt's...I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I just don't have the patience or the cash to make one look that nice.

Diggs

zircon

Assuming the request is legit, here goes..

I first saw the Zephyr at the Detroit auto show last year and was impressed. Upon close inspection of the interior, it ws clear the dash assembly was quite poorly fitting. Nevertheless, the exterior is very nice. I like the Ford version too.

Ford has 2 problems to overcome: stratospheric depreciation and poor reliability of earlier Lincolns. The must avoid the urge to drop these things at Hertz - short term gain will kill resale values. Next, offer 6 year 100000 mile ful warrenty. My neighbour had and LS until it spewed oil all over his garage floor. He is a Ford supplier so had to stay with the company. I understand he likes his new Volvo.

Dirk Diggs

Cool. I have considered the reliability of Acura pretty heavily.

My rebates are no different than any customer that comes in. I just get a discount, and with that in mind...I am still looking at the TSX. I tend to research the <poop> out of everything though.

Acura's nav is second to none, I have seen it in my friend's TL. It is very impressive.

Resale-wise...Lincoln won't hold a candle to the Acura (I have posted actual auction sales on the TSX), and I have taken that into account, along with warranties and what-not. I'm not to worried about that aspect though.

Since this site has so many peeps on it, I just wanted to see if anyone had the chance to test out both while trying to decide (and what they thought)...or if I am the only person even considering comparing the two (which may be most likely).

Diggs

EDIT: I can't get a manual transmission in the Zephyr, and as far the the funky name goes, it is rumored that the name will change next year.

CCColtsicehockey

Thanks for the compliments man. I would have to say that although the two cars may be somewhat the same I think they are still very different. I think the zephyr is more towards luxuzry where as the tsx it towards sporty luxury. the tsx I would bet and almost guarentee has a much more sporty suspension.

LuvMyTSX

I too fell head over heels for the TSXand new it was what I wanted. I cross shopped many cars, but couldn't find anything in my price range that could compare to the TSX. It has all the features I wanted, plus the durability and reliability that I needed. It was definitely the clear choice for me, and I haven't regretted getting it for even one instant.

The new Fusion/Milan/Zephyr are replacing the Taurus, correct? If so, the new siblings have a lot more going for them, including looks and I think size, than the Taurus/Sable ever did. Amen to getting rid of those two old fogies that were WAY past their prime!!

Dirk Diggs

lol...you guys were so skeptical! We have salespeople here that drive Nissans...lol.

The Fusion/Milan/Zephyr are the Taurus/Sable replacements, but have the same engine. The Zephyr, or whatever it will be called next year, will have a bigger V6 though, I guess.

I appreciate all the input. I am being legit here.

We have a Zephyr downstairs that the owner got for one of his friends, and that sparked this whole topic, cause I have always liked the LS, but the Zephyr is replacing it, and it isn't as expensive. Since it is in roughly the same range as the TSX, I figured someone here would be curious too.

Diggs

Reach

This reminds me of TSX vs. IS250 for 1 reason.

My car search pretty much came down to that decision, either TSX or IS250. This is the first year for the new IS, which is widely known, and this is the first redesign for the TSX (minor tho it may be), which is also widely known. After I researched the <poop> so to say out of the two, I was still fairly deadlocked, but leaning toward the TSX for price.

I dug up info on my.IS and clubLexus forums that suggested similar second-year revamps to the IS. The 2007 is rumored to be an IS300, replacing the underpowered 2.5 in the current offering. It seems like the engine change is just one thing they sacrificed to get the car out a model year early and garner early interest. I didn't want a first year car to begin with, and I sure didn't want an underpowered 1st year car that was about to get a booster shot and render my would-be lovely new car valueless on the resale market.

It seems a similar story with the Zephyr. I know nothing about it myself other than seeing one at the DC auto show (and I wasn't really impressed / excited about it) but the story you tell sounds like the final reason I went with the TSX (not to mention price, features! and my great nav!)

As a zealous new owner, I suggest you go down the same path. Look at all the success stories here, you won't be dissapointed.

fuckleberry

LMAO, some of you guys ought to chill & take it easy with this "defend our beloved Acura" :gheyhug: shit.
At least the OP is upfront about him being a Ford guy.
This is Internet car forum, NOT Honda/Acura Corp. Intranet group.

joerockt

Its good to have an inside sales person around. Lay off on Dirk...

xenonhid

Ford Sales Consultant Posting in an Acura Forum = +

xenonhid

Could Dirk possibly be DIPKAT in disguise? :communist

Just kidding.

Sclass88

Respectable. I commend you for researching this topic. I'm very surprised to see that Ford doesn't offer you a better incentive to buy their products, expecially considering their current economic stance.

In order to get a better sense of the two cars, go and test drive them. However, seeing as you are 29 years old, I think you would have a little more fun with a TSX. I have always thought of Lincoln as an old mans car and I don't think that the Zephyr takes away from that image. Good Luck!

And don't forget, if you go with the Zephyr, you'll lose the myraid of knowledge of AcuraZine!

Jeffrey Serota

Do you really think what Ford is putting under the hood of any of it's product is refined? Not hardly. Wait until those people who get one have 50 or so thousand miles on them. Power drops, seals leak, and those professional service people tell them," it's a characteristic of the car" . Then the rattles start, wind leaks in the passenger compartment because they use cheap seals . Next is paint problems. Lastly when those poor people get fed up with the car they now get the thrill of taking a beating on trade value. I speak from experience. Let ford get their act together first. Then see if the auto sticks around for more than a couple years ala Thunderbird and then compare. My $$ is hard to come by and I work hard for them. Quality always rises and Acura / Honda has proven year after year they make the grade. The TSX in any form is the way to go!! iImade the move and happy I did!!

Dirk Diggs

Thanks! I am human too!

I'm doing searches on this Zephyr/Lincoln forums and there isn't much out there yet.

This website beats all other forums I have read by far (in traffic and manners). I have seen peeps on domestic forums get really hostile, so the skepticism here wasn't unwarranted, but it also wasn't harsh.

If this Lincoln drives like the Fusion (which it should), it may not be a bad car at all. I think it may be closer to a luxury sports sedan than most peeps would admit. I am just unsure of whether Lincoln will ever be able to kick the "I'm buying the car I will be buried in" look. That name has to go too.

The Acura doesn't look old by any means...I still think the body kit makes it look a lot better (than its stock form, and the Zephyr). Acura also doesn't have the "old person car" stereotype, and it seems to becoming more of a status symbol every day. I am not immune to stereotypes and status symbols either...it would be nice to have a car that people are impressed by, but I also want something that has a lot of nice amenities and is really fun to drive (manual transmission/handling/horsepower).

It'll be interesting to see what the critics have to say in the upcoming year.

I'd like to see if someone else gave this thing a shot too.

Diggs

Dirk Diggs

I never said that...here is one of my original statements:

Now, bear in mind, the Zephyr has a 3.0L Duratec V-6 (w/ dual exhaust) that is around 221 horsepower (I am estimating based on my Ford Fusion product knowledge), while the TSX has a 4 cylinder @ 205 horsepower. This leads me off on another tangent (why are import engines so much quieter, more fuel efficient, and generally more powerful?), but I digress...

Believe it or not...there are some Fords/Domestics that do hold up for a long time. Maintenance is key...I just happen to be shifting my sights overseas like the majority of people are, for some of the same reasons you stated. There will be problems with every make/model....it just seems to me that Acura/imports have less.

Diggs

CarbonGray Earl

Wow...a 17 year old that doesn't think a 29 year old is "old"! I feel better about the quarter life crisis Im going through.

Dirk - I myself am 30, married with one kid. When Mrs. Earl and little Earlette are around, we cruise around pretty comfortably. However, when I'm sans family, the TSX is a great driving car. if you have to get AT, the 5AT is definitely fun and I've been an MT driver for the last 13 years. Its got a good midrange, sings smoothly to its opera voice (vtec) and its not as slow as 0-60 times make it out to be. Its most likely "feels" lighter and tighter than the Zephyr; you'll want to toss it around. Again, I have never driven the Zeph, just speculating.

For me, the TSX provides a pretty decent trade-off between having to cruise with the family, or driving aggressively when solo, cutting up a twisty road or cutting up traffic.

One more thing to think about: The Acura also has a healthy and ever developing aftermarket, which I don't think the Zephyr has (yet). You might be able to make up that power deficit AND have a bit of fun.

afici0nad0

these are probably some of the threads you saw when you made the search:

https://acurazine.com/forums/search.php?searchid=228730

i think the fusion/zephyr/milan have nice design elements in them. i think they much more attractive than the taurus they replace.

as for reliability, fit and finish, etc., i think you would have first hand knowledge (since you do sell fords). from the honda perspective, you can always check to see the list of tsb's currently out for the 06 tsx, and maybe the 05 too (for an idea of possible recurring items):

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/01/05013446.html

doesn't look like there are any tsb information on the zephyr and 06 tsx yet...

Dirk Diggs

Sclass88...it is so nice to see a youngin' who can convey their thoughts without dropping the f-bomb every other word! You know..."when I was your age"...

...that Zephyr is starting to suit me more and more. J/K... Thanks for not thinking Earl and I are old!

Earl...remember back in the day when we were cool because we found the hidden warp zone in Mario Bros?

It's just me, the fiancee, and the dog...and the dog won't ever be allowed in my car.

I want to get a 6MT, because I learned to drive...back in the day (LOL) on an '89 Hyundai Excel. The fiancee wants me to get a car she can drive as well. I say she can get her own car when her Volvo lease is up.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense...as I am used to slower cars, and with the avg horsepower being around 200 these days, I think the manual will suit me just fine since you are able to get around in traffic quickly in the 5AT. That Hyundai I had was able to get out in front of the pack because of me gunning it at every green light (and it wasn't quick...lol).

I'll drive them both...that future 3.5L intrigues me though.

Diggs

peter_bigblock

Laying off of Dirk is worth about 4 whp.

jpt

I'm driving a TSX tomorrow evening and will try for a Zephyr later this week. I'm also going to be driving a VW Jetta TDI as its extremely impressive highway range is a significant advantage on the long drives i often take. I'll take notes and post my opinions as soon I finish driving all three.

peter_bigblock

I agree, the kid wrote a reasonable, well-worded post with (mostly) good grammar. (That last is a rarity around these parts . . .)

I don't know, the Lincoln looks (and sounds) like a very nice car. The Fusion has certainly gotten a lot of decent press, and I'd wager they're both much better-built cars than former Ford owners are used to. Sure, the Zephyr (a model name, by the way, that goes back to Lincolns of the 1930's) is a snazzed-up Fusion, but the TSX is a duded-up Accord, too. The 250 hp 3.5 sounds like an excellent engine for the Lincoln, esp. if it's only in the Lincoln.

I know the TSX is the right car for me, no doubt in my mind, but the Lincoln may be right for you. Drive them and then decide. I'm guessing you'll be really happy with either one.

CarbonGray Earl

Haha great feeling....Remember when just finishing a video game such as that gave you a great sense of "accomplishment?" Nowadays, I feel this way when the wifey doesn't catch me and wake me from an afternoon nap on the weekend...damned honey-do lists....

Good luck with your choice!

amadeus303

iTrader: (2)

Also owning a 2003 Mazda6s for 2 years before "falling" for the TSX, I'd have to say that "Ford" has done better than coming near sports sedan territory. While some may argue that it had a nose heavy feeling due to its V6 engine, I felt (and still feel) that right out of the box in stock form, the car handled better than the TSX, and unquestionably had better brakes.

Still... that being said, I'm still a Honda guy at heart (2 Accords before the Mazda). My father-in-law works for Ford, and as a loyal "Buy American" union member, even he can't really fault me for buying import. Buy the TSX... 5 years down the road (even 3 years down the road), you'll still love it. The design won't be outdated, the MT (if you so choose) is one of the slickest around, and if you decide to sell the car, you'll still make some money back. Just my

Dirk Diggs

They are going to re-name it the Mark Z, and it will be badged MKZ. This will be for '07 when it gets the 3.5L.

In other words...they are going to change its stupid name to something only marginally better.

It is a sporty looking sedan, and they are targeting a younger demographic with it, while doing away with the $40,000 LS. Now younger buyers may be able to afford it...I just don't know if they will want it.

I think I am still going to get a TSX even with the employee plan I would get on the Zephyr/MKZ. I think it looks good, but I can't shake the "old person's car" image. It bothers me.

It'll be interesting to see what other peeps say after they have driven both though.

Diggs

aascsm

except for the trucks...can't explain it but the truck builds are awesome!

Sclass88

Thanks

Sclass88

Thanks, too!

lilballa

Anything that deals with ford, or ford quality is

donkeykong80

As a Ford consultant, I am assuming you get a discount. If you do I would not pass up on it. Have you considered a Volvo S40 T5 or the Mazdaspeed 6? I would take those two cars over the Zephyr. The TSX is an awesome car, but if you get a discount, I would use it. It's kind of like working for Best Buy but buying a stereo from Circuit City.

LuvMyTSX

^

Discount or no discount, if he can afford it, he should get what he likes. Buying a car just because of a discount is absurd IMO if it's not what you want. He'll be drooling all over the place when he sees a TSX or other car he likes if he passes up what he really wants for something he doesn't.

Dirk Diggs

I get a lot of "product knowledge" from reading forums like this. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many pics of the Volvo S40 T5, and the Volvo forums aren't very active. I have considered it though...I just happen to like the TSX a lot more. My fiancee has a Volvo S60 AWD, and while it is a nice car...I'm not crazy about it.

I think the last time I checked, the S40 T5 was priced a bit higher when comparably equipped (like the TSX), even with D-PLAN (employee discount). The turbo doesn't make it much quicker either (if I am remembering correctly).

The Mazda Speed 6 is nice looking, but I love the TSX. The MS6 is too boy-racerish for me. I want something more professional looking, and the TSX fits that requirement nicely (even with the body kit).

I just looked at the Zephyr downstairs again...it is pretty slick. Lincoln just screams old people to me though. The LS is a different story...but I can't afford that either. I may change my mind on it in the future...especially with the 3.5L introduction. I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of these on the roads soon.

I think I am good enough at what I do "from the selling side" to work a good deal "from the buyer's side". My employee discount is substantial, but I can get a good deal otherwise. I just haven't seen anything besides the Zephyr within my price range, that I really like from FoMoCo or other manufacturers. Hard to believe a few years ago I had "Ford blinders" on.

Diggs

jpt

I test drove a Zephyr along with the Jetta TDI and GLI and the TSX on Wednesday.

The build quality seemed surprisingly good. Fitment and finish were excellent. Materials not so much; the interior plastics felt tacky compared with VW's or Acura's.

The first thing I noticed about the interior was the feel of the headliner. Against the top of my head. I'm 6'0" and in order to get a reasonable amount of headroom I had to lower the seat enough that I wasn't holding the steering wheel quite comfortably. The seats also had an overstuffed feel that did not feel appropriate for a car seat; perhaps after a few weeks of break-in they would feel nicer. Stereo and climate controls were covered by a silver, rather than black, plastic faceplate, and that was about all that differentiated them from an F150's. At least it looked like the stereo head unit would be pretty easy to replace... The back seats had a reasonable amount of leg room, and the 60/40 folding seat operated by hydraulic handles in the spacious trunk was a nice touch.

Start the Zephyr and it becomes instantly obvious that "sporty" describes something younger people drive. The fact that there's no manual transmission should have been my first clue (the Zephyr's twin, the Mercury Milan, does have an available MT but only in the base 4-cylinder model). The 3 liter V6 is quiet, smooth, and reasonably powerful, but the automatic transmission is tuned for economy and you have to floor it and wait for the kickdown to get any serious acceleration. A sport-shift mode or better yet a manual shift mode would have been much appreciated. I guess I should be happy that Ford at least finally discovered variable valve timing.

Handling is what really kills any hope this car had of being considered a sport sedan. Steering feel is completely nonexistent. The car will go where you point it -- I wasn't able to induce any understeer -- but the absolute lack of any feedback whatsoever, combined with a chassis that's uncompromisingly tuned for ride comfort, make any kind of high-speed cornering an experience you won't want to repeat.

At least the ride quality is very good. It took a pretty large bump for me to even notice, thanks both to the suspension and excellent sound deadening. The heavy, numb steering and lack of bumps meant that driving was pretty much fatigue-free, and the Zephyr would probably make an decent long-distance highway cruiser.

Overall I'd say the Zephyr isn't a bad car, but it just doesn't belong in the same category as cars like the TSX, but as a domestic competitor to the ES 330 (which is close in size but has better power, a larger, more powerful, lower-revving and hence quieter and smoother engine, and a vastly nicer interior for about $5k more).