TSX vs 05 NAIAS
#41
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 93Kewl
Too bad. You REALLY don't know what your missing!
Saab 9-3 Sport Sedan Is First Car
Named "Double Best Pick" in IIHS Crash Tests
Saab 9-3 Sport Sedan Is First Car
Named "Double Best Pick" in IIHS Crash Tests
Hey Kewl its been awhile how's it going? How's the Saab treating you?
I didn't mean my comment in a negative way but we really just didn't head in that direction mainly because we had no idea where that direction was. We only breifly walked through the GM display and I'm sure the Saab's were buried somewhere within that huge GM family.
Actually would have been nice to sit in a 9-3 since I've never sat in one before.
And Kewl, I'm not sure I have enough room on the page to name off all the awards the TSX has won so I won't bother
#42
Originally Posted by domn
Hey Kewl its been awhile how's it going? How's the Saab treating you?
I just got an Aux jack installed for my stock 9-3 stereo so now I can listen to my Ipod
For anyone interested Proclip has some nice mounting options for all different types of cars. Here's the one I got for my car (Camera phone quality)
#44
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 93Kewl
Doing well, thanks for asking. Car is also doing well and still enjoying it. No problems to report (knock on wood). I am considering doing a PPC ECU upgrade which will boost me to 247HP and a $hit load of torque.
I just got an Aux jack installed for my stock 9-3 stereo so now I can listen to my Ipod
For anyone interested Proclip has some nice mounting options for all different types of cars. Here's the one I got for my car (Camera phone quality)
I just got an Aux jack installed for my stock 9-3 stereo so now I can listen to my Ipod
For anyone interested Proclip has some nice mounting options for all different types of cars. Here's the one I got for my car (Camera phone quality)
Nice mod. ( damn I want an iPod )
So how much is the ECU upgrade going to run you? Looks like some solid gains.
#45
Originally Posted by domn
....So this year I decided to take a close look at what appears to be the TSX's main competiton. I came out of the show even happier with my decesion to buy the TSX than ever before....
#48
Originally Posted by domn
( damn I want an iPod )
What is that between Park and Reverse on the shifter? Did Saab invent a new gear?
#51
Not an Ashtray
Originally Posted by domn
Hey Kewl its been awhile how's it going? How's the Saab treating you?
I didn't mean my comment in a negative way but we really just didn't head in that direction mainly because we had no idea where that direction was. We only breifly walked through the GM display and I'm sure the Saab's were buried somewhere within that huge GM family.
Actually would have been nice to sit in a 9-3 since I've never sat in one before.
And Kewl, I'm not sure I have enough room on the page to name off all the awards the TSX has won so I won't bother
I didn't mean my comment in a negative way but we really just didn't head in that direction mainly because we had no idea where that direction was. We only breifly walked through the GM display and I'm sure the Saab's were buried somewhere within that huge GM family.
Actually would have been nice to sit in a 9-3 since I've never sat in one before.
And Kewl, I'm not sure I have enough room on the page to name off all the awards the TSX has won so I won't bother
I like the Saab 9-3 and the Saab 9-5 a lot. But, according to Consumer Reports, the reliability of the 9-3 is "much worse than average." If I'm going to spend money on a reliablity risk, I'd probably rather go with an Audi (which I like better).
#52
Originally Posted by domn
You mean GM
according to Consumer Reports, the reliability of the 9-3 is "much worse than average."
For as much as I love the A4 shape (not the '05 with bulbous nose), the drive was very uninspiring (3.0) and that is compounded by the fact that the car is VERY HEAVY.
#54
Not an Ashtray
Originally Posted by 93Kewl
Designed by Swedes, financed by GM. I have the 9-3SS history book to prove it.
Aww cmon Darth, you know as well as I do anyone can get a "lemon". As for CR, the 9-3 is in it's 3rd model year, and from I can see from forums, it's relatively trouble-free. I have been lucky, a couple of problems in the first couple months (all software related) and been trouble free ever since. I would venture to say that mechanically the 9-3 is as reliable as any car out there.
For as much as I love the A4 shape (not the '05 with bulbous nose), the drive was very uninspiring (3.0) and that is compounded by the fact that the car is VERY HEAVY.
Aww cmon Darth, you know as well as I do anyone can get a "lemon". As for CR, the 9-3 is in it's 3rd model year, and from I can see from forums, it's relatively trouble-free. I have been lucky, a couple of problems in the first couple months (all software related) and been trouble free ever since. I would venture to say that mechanically the 9-3 is as reliable as any car out there.
For as much as I love the A4 shape (not the '05 with bulbous nose), the drive was very uninspiring (3.0) and that is compounded by the fact that the car is VERY HEAVY.
If you are buying a Saab, you are taking a big chance. And, if you keep it for a while (i.e., you are not leasing), it is probably going to turn into a real problem to maintain. For that reason, I'd go with an Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti long before I'd buy a Saab. Heck, I'd go with a Honda Accord Coupe or Subarau Legacy GT before taking my chances with a Saab.
What you see on forums tells you absolutely nothing. The folks who come to forums and post problems are a very select group.
#55
Originally Posted by darth62
Anybody can get a lemon, true. But, we're talking probabilities here. The 9-3 had one of the worst reliability rating in CR's surveys. In the class, only the Jaguar X-type was less reliable. Even the more reliable 9-5 had some black spots (like electrical problems in the first few years).
If you are buying a Saab, you are taking a big chance. And, if you keep it for a while (i.e., you are not leasing), it is probably going to turn into a real problem to maintain. For that reason, I'd go with an Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti long before I'd buy a Saab. Heck, I'd go with a Honda Accord Coupe or Subarau Legacy GT before taking my chances with a Saab.
What you see on forums tells you absolutely nothing. The folks who come to forums and post problems are a very select group.
If you are buying a Saab, you are taking a big chance. And, if you keep it for a while (i.e., you are not leasing), it is probably going to turn into a real problem to maintain. For that reason, I'd go with an Acura, Lexus, or Infiniti long before I'd buy a Saab. Heck, I'd go with a Honda Accord Coupe or Subarau Legacy GT before taking my chances with a Saab.
What you see on forums tells you absolutely nothing. The folks who come to forums and post problems are a very select group.
I personally have a 4-5 year plan. 16 months so far, so good. BTW, I believe that consumer reports rating came out in 2004 and needed the '03 model body of work in order to be published. Like I said before, lots of bugs have been worked out, which I am sure the "perfect" TSX had none of in it's first year of production.
I think you will see the 9-3 come back into the "fold" to be "average" as time goes on.
Like I have said many times in the past, there must be some reason why people buy other makes of cars besides Japanese brands. It is these reasons that make this world such an interesting place to live.
#56
Not an Ashtray
If I keep a car for five years, I would still prefer not to be running to the dealer every few months to have problems fixed.
I'm not looking for the Saab, or other vehicles to have Lexus-like reliability numbers. I'm must looking for AVERAGE or even SLIGHTLY BELOW AVERAGE ratings. The numbers that the Saab got are abysmal.
I agree that the Saab's reliablity MIGHT improve. But, that remains to be seen. Right now, you've got a unreliable vehicle, made by a company with a history of making unreliable vehicles, that was reasonably bought by a larger company that has poor quality control. That isn't a very promising set of events.
I'm not looking for the Saab, or other vehicles to have Lexus-like reliability numbers. I'm must looking for AVERAGE or even SLIGHTLY BELOW AVERAGE ratings. The numbers that the Saab got are abysmal.
I agree that the Saab's reliablity MIGHT improve. But, that remains to be seen. Right now, you've got a unreliable vehicle, made by a company with a history of making unreliable vehicles, that was reasonably bought by a larger company that has poor quality control. That isn't a very promising set of events.
#57
Originally Posted by darth62
If I keep a car for five years, I would still prefer not to be running to the dealer every few months to have problems fixed.
I agree that the Saab's reliablity MIGHT improve. But, that remains to be seen. Right now, you've got a unreliable vehicle, made by a company with a history of making unreliable vehicles, that was reasonably bought by a larger company that has poor quality control. That isn't a very promising set of events.
You can read all the mags you like. That's fine. But as an owner, who has happened to make friends with other owners, sales/service reps both online and in-person I think I just might have a little more "insight" to the ownership experience.
Believe me, if I ever do wind up going in for service "every few months" with my 9-3, I'll be man enough to post it.
#58
Not an Ashtray
Originally Posted by 93Kewl
Come on, that's rediculous.
Didn't we already prove that Saab's history of "unreliability" is just uninformed people's opinion? Actually, I forgot his profile name (I think he was banned from here - but was a very popular poster), but every bit of reliability info he could dig up showd that overall, the Saab brand is not as bad as people think. Sure, the 1st MY had issues but as time goes on, I become more and more confident of the reliability of my car. I'd still rather have a 9-3 rather than an Audi, MB, or BMW.
You can read all the mags you like. That's fine. But as an owner, who has happened to make friends with other owners, sales/service reps both online and in-person I think I just might have a little more "insight" to the ownership experience.
Believe me, if I ever do wind up going in for service "every few months" with my 9-3, I'll be man enough to post it.
Didn't we already prove that Saab's history of "unreliability" is just uninformed people's opinion? Actually, I forgot his profile name (I think he was banned from here - but was a very popular poster), but every bit of reliability info he could dig up showd that overall, the Saab brand is not as bad as people think. Sure, the 1st MY had issues but as time goes on, I become more and more confident of the reliability of my car. I'd still rather have a 9-3 rather than an Audi, MB, or BMW.
You can read all the mags you like. That's fine. But as an owner, who has happened to make friends with other owners, sales/service reps both online and in-person I think I just might have a little more "insight" to the ownership experience.
Believe me, if I ever do wind up going in for service "every few months" with my 9-3, I'll be man enough to post it.
2) So, you've some how "proved" that the unreliablity of the Saab is a myth, eh? Consumer Reports has survey data from several thousand drivers. This isn't a question of "uninformed people's opinion." To be blunt, that is ridiculous assertion. We are talking about hard data here, probably the best data available on vehicle reliability. The evidence against the Saab is fairly strong.
3) I really don't think you have any insight whatsoever into what life is going to be like with an unreliable vehicle like the Saab 9-3 over the longterm. You may be enjoying it now, but I don't think it is going to stay that way.
#59
Photography Nerd
You're right darth, he should drive his car off a cliff and buy a TSX tomorrow.
What do you want him to do? He bought a SAAB and he's happy with it. No need to argue if it's a bad car or not.
What do you want him to do? He bought a SAAB and he's happy with it. No need to argue if it's a bad car or not.
#61
Not an Ashtray
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
You're right darth, he should drive his car off a cliff and buy a TSX tomorrow.
What do you want him to do? He bought a SAAB and he's happy with it. No need to argue if it's a bad car or not.
What do you want him to do? He bought a SAAB and he's happy with it. No need to argue if it's a bad car or not.
But, you're right, it is unproductive to have this argument. I tend to get a tad annoyed when people discount hard evidence (like CR's surveys) because it doesn't support their purchase choice.
#62
Originally Posted by darth62
But, you're right, it is unproductive to have this argument. I tend to get a tad annoyed when people discount hard evidence (like CR's surveys) because it doesn't support their purchase choice.
Nobody's is saying that my 9-3 or even your godly reliable TSX will never have problems. Are the chances of me having a problem more statically probable than you with your TSX? Sure. I realized that when I got rid of my CL-S and decided to buy a Saab. But don't discount that I did research too and found Saab's to be more reliable in general than the average VW, BMW, Jaguar and even MB or Audi.
That being said, I chose the 9-3 for what it offered over TSX and was willing to compromise on the fact that it wouldn't be as reliable as your average Honda/Japanese car. Hey, maybe I have been lucky thusfar and there's no reason to think otherwise. Whatever problems I did have were fixed.
Believe me, whether you are a 9-3, TSX, IS300, or Toyota Camry owner. Nobody would tolerate having to bring a car back for service every few months for very long. I will cross that bridge when I come to it - if it ever comes.
Peace.
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