xenonhid

I can see if Prius is going to be your 1st car, but coming from a TSX.......

Oh yeah get the prius, it comes with HID headlights. OH, nevermind, they are just white bulbs in a halogen housing without projectors.

Prius

SoonToBeTSX'n

I think the cost is more like 3-4000.

jpt

It is ZERO until 2014 or 100,000 miles.

bradykp

it's also not about the Smart car

bradykp

it's not that expensive, that's when hybrids first came out (insight).

and it's covered under warranty to 100,000 miles.

Bootlegged

Hey thanks guys for all your comments, links, insight, and sarcasm This is another reason why this site rules. A lot of good info provided... even if it was a biased opinion

I will think twice on it for sure now. That link with all those crazy equations really put the money saving factor into perspective. I think I'm just going to go Scion Xb.

Hahaha! Just KIDDING!

bradykp

which link are you referring to? sorry, i'm just too lazy to go back through.

As an aside: my friend got a Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Limited Edition. it was around $40,000 (ouch!) but it's a great car. He's getting about $2,200 back in taxes, and it was approximately $6,000 more than the comprable non-hybrid edition. $3,800 difference, but signficant mpg difference in city....7 or 8 mpg more. highway got 3 more mpg. He drives a lot in the NYC metro area, so he's already saving $30/week as compared to his old Jeep Grand Cherokee

Tintin

u even quoted the article...but check the third article "is a hybrid worth it"

bradykp

i never made it to the third link. hahahaha! something distracted me, called work

jfbradley

I actually considered a Prius before TSX. I would have had to be on a waiting list just to test drive one. Then another waiting list to get one. Probably still be waiting and I've had my TSX for a year now.

lilballa

Prius

You expect him to get a Civic?!?! So apparently TSX to Civic is better than TSX to Prius lol. rofl.

I dunno about you but I just spent my first $1,000 on fuel after 23,000kms and 1 year/3 months. How much does it cost to fill up your TSX in one year and how many km? Also, brake life is extended. At the one year service interval, I had 90% brake pad life left in the front, 95% in the rear. That should last me til 100,000kms before replacement.

Besides, if you want a driver's car, stick with the TSX.
If you want a commuting car, get a Prius.

It's more versatile (fold flat rear seats and front passenger seat), similarly equipped (HID, leather, nav, bluetooth, SKS, backup camera etc).

8-yr/100,000 mile warranty on hybrid components. Up to 15yrs/150,000 miles in CA and states with using CA emissions regulations.

If you drive with a lead foot, stick with the TSX, if you wanna learn how to maximise fuel efficiency, give the Prius a shot. There was a Prius marathon in which several guys (not all Prius drivers. Some are Insight and Civic Hybrid drivers) took turns driving the Prius til it ran out of gas. Their final average was 110mpg.

As for the hybrid premium, it's no different from paying a premium for a TSX compared to the Accord or choosing a V6 over an I4. Also check your state for tax breaks.

And btw, unless you want power, I would advise against the Highlander Hybrid. That one I'll agree with you guys and say it's way overpriced.

sauceman

Nothing out of the usual there. But yeah, I'm generally favorable to the hybrids.

Prius

really? I thought on average a midsize car would have its brakes at ~70% by a year and ~18,000kms.

Besides, I'm waiting to see what Honda can do for Acura and whether they'll take the performance route or the efficiency route.

sauceman

It's probably our driving style, but I had my original pads replaced at 172,000km with 15% left on them, and my brother had his original pads on his Protégé replaced at 175,000km.

kmac_1906

If you really care about the environment and have the money for a hybrid get it, also if you can live without the power. As far as getting it because it's better on gas it will take you 3 to 5 years of buying gas to make up for the extra money you spent when buying a hybrid. It sounds like you like driving a hot car that you can mod. If you want to save on gas buy an RSX-S.

Prius

wow.. niiice. I guess I should've said city mileage then? I assume highway miles will lengthen the lifetime since you brake only when you exit... and maybe a few more times in LA heh.

bradykp

my buddy got the highlander hybrid limited. it was $5,000 more, and he's getting $2,000 back. the mpg is almost 8 mpg betterr for him. He's saving $30 a week already.

03CoupeV6

The Prius has a HID option. It's D2R, the reflector HID, but it is STILL HID. I dunno what made you think the Prius doesn't have it - projectors aren't necessary for HID lighting. If I'm not mistaken, the Prius' HIDs are auto-levelling.. now that's something the TSX projector HIDs are not.

Prius is a good choice for a car.

mattwill

Ive driven the older generation prius lots because my company owns one. Its alright, but a joke over the hills. Anyway, that is all moot because each next generation is 100X better than the earlier....which brings me to the point of my post:

I rented a new civic hybrid to drive from Phoenix to sedona (lots of hills) and have to say the experiance had me considering a accord hybrid. It was incredible - fast, had pep, and i was easily pulling even at speeds in excess of 90 MPH. Average MPG was 34 with a lead foot (it WAS a rental after all.) I cant even express how impressed i was with this technology.

So anyone who puts down a hybrid as a general family car in my opinion is rather uninformed. Those batteries last 10-12 years now. In 5 years i can only imagine how great they will be, and those of us NOT driving a hybrid will feel like dolts.

Peak oil is here my friends (google search), and i totally respect anyone who pays the extra now to get one.

Just adding to the discussion.

Babassboy

According to edmunds the prius only got an average of 40.8 MPG which is really not that great esspecialy considering the poor power output. Also the the british car review show Top Gear gave the Prius the award for the worst handling car that they tested. Also the TSX is a safter car according to the ratings given by IIHS. In reality you will only save about 600-1000 with normal driving 12000-18000 miles a year. As others have said the repair costs are also going to be more expensive on average as well. The only people I have seen recomending the Prius are people who don't know cars. I like the idea of more efficient cars but right now with hybrids it is pretty pathetic how little they are improving.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...ticleId=101393

sauceman

Obviously...

Prius

That's still double what they got with the TSX. My average is 48mpg or about the average of greenhybrid's database.

Besides, the 1st gen Prius (97-00) is 9 years old already. I don't see a news report about massive failures of those vehicles in Japan.

How can repair costs be higher? we don't have an automatic transmission to worry about (unless you bought a Honda), no power steering fluid, brakes that'll last a good deal longer (a 01 US Prius owner has 106,000 miles and 70% brake life left although it's mostly highway miles), less stress on the engine cause it's not running half the time, less wear and tear due to cold starts because of a thermos that stores hot coolant from the last trip and so on.

Top Gear is a show for car nuts interested in M5s, Continental GTs and the like. Any car that isn't meant to be sporty is put down. Besides, whoever listens and actually believes what Jeremy Clarkson says is obviously uninformed.

bradykp

Well, you make some good points. I think it was wrong for the previous posted to say that anyone who recommends the prius knows nothing about cars.

if people were recommending it as a performance vehicle, then the poster would be correct. my coworker has owned a prius for 3 years now, and he wouldn't give it up for anything. no repair costs beyond any other 3 year old car, so i don't see that argument holding up.

right now, it'd only be more expensive because you can pretty much only get it serviced by the dealer, but mechanics will start coming around.

and how can you knock how far the technology has come? when did the first hybrid come out? maybe about 10 years ago? it could have developed faster, if not for the oil lobbies preventing it, but it's come pretty far.

the world needs to start looking at other energy sources, especially the United States. the prius is a good reliable car, and you'll make your money back if you drive alot. it is difficuly to justify the price difference if you do not do a substantial amount of driving, but there are other benefits, like the ones for the environment, of driving a hybrid.

right now it's a statement, but in the future, more cars will be hybrids. people who want to argue otherwise are just people who love their performance cars, and will probably never switch either.

it's like telling someone who loves a suburban that it's useless. they'll give you a million reasons why they need one. america is a very unique place when it comes to cars. we're power and size hounds. with everything. so the hybrid is a HUGE culture shock here. but it will slowly erode it's way to a powerful place in the american marketplace.

Babassboy

Both cars are really good cars i guess it just comes down to what is important to the driver. If you want to save money and the invironment then the prius will do a better job than most any car out there, but if you are interested in preformance and a "better" overall car then the TSX should do just fine. Personally I will waite a few more years before I take the plunge for a hybrid so that technology can mature and make them better overall machines with lighter battery packs and so forth (mabe a ceramic engine with one of the new nanobatterie's).

bradykp

but the "better" tsx is subjective, as the prius has a lot of nice luxuries. we're not blowing anyone away with power in our TSXs, so who are you fooling?

maybe the people over on the BMW sites are saying that anyone who would recommend a TSX knows nothing about cars, since we have a "sports" car that doesn't have RWD.

the TSX is an amazing value for what it is, an entry level luxury sporty car
not a luxury car. and not a sports car. but a little bit of both.

the prius is a decent buy too, as it holds it's value extremely well, and gives you a great savings in gas.

my buddy is in his highlander from his old jeep grand cherokee. he's saving $30 a week in gas with his hybrid.

Prius

exactly. Each car has its own merits and rightfully so. If I were looking for a compact sports sedan, the TSX would be one (along with the IS and maybe G35). The TSX is at least Cdn$10k cheaper comparably equipped and $10k for a V6 is debatable.

Technically, any mechanic can do an oil change on the Prius. It's standard stuff but yeah, hybrid component checkups must be done at the dealer though I've heard of indep. shops sending their mechanics to Toyota University for training. It makes sense since once more hybrids are out, they'll be ahead of the competition

I think you guys should wait til 08 when Li-ion batteries is expected to debut. By then, we should have more powerful and more efficient versions. Our NiMH batteries have restricted range (40-80% true SOC for the Prius) to maximise the life of the battery. I'd think with Li-ion, they should be able to use more of the battery without sacrificing lifespan.

To supplement what bradykp said, I think it'll depend on the car you're trading in. If you were going from a Yaris/Fit to a hybrid, then fuel savings are minimal (but you'll get a lot more goodies). If you were coming from a V8 midsize SUV, then the fuel savings are greater.

jpt

The only benefit to a hybrid plant of batteries with greater energy density is the potential for a smaller and lighter battery stack. All the energy going into them still comes from the gas tank, so there's no point in having more total energy storage available than is needed to avoid using the engine ineficciently.

By the way, your earlier quote about the 110mpg Prius team was fairly misleading. I've only heard two reports of mileage that high: one was an outright lie, since it involved plugging the car in to charge a new, larger battery stack but did not consider the cost of the second external power source; the other involved driving in an extremely obsessive and impractical manner at very low speed (30-40mph) on interstate highways with the air conditioning off.

Babassboy

Well if you really car about maximizing your fuel consumption then the heck with the Prius and it's 47 mpg average. Go for this one http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...recordid=43581 it set a world record of 11,193.135 mpg. That would make it about 238 times more gas efficient. Imagine you anual gas bill being under $5.00! now if only car manufacturers could make hybrids like that! Just a fun little bit of trivia for ya.

bradykp

www.greasecar.com

Prius

That is true but if you have a more efficient electric motor, you can get more from regenerative braking and rely less on the engine. Also, if we get PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicles), then we can use electric only and gas if we really have to. Of course, getting electricity isn't clean either but in those places who's primary source is hydro-electric, it could be promising.

Actually, the 110mpg was achieved on a stock car with no modifications whatsoever. It was done, as you said from 30-40mph which is the efficient range of the Prius for which we can glide (no battery, no engine) without the engine spinning and thus wasting energy. It wasn't on the highway and was on a normal street with traffic lights. Using their technique, I bumped my mileage from 5.2L/100km to 4.4L/100km in the summer and yes that's with the A/C running. I ain't gonna run around in the hot summer without A/C unless it's mild. Other "regular" Prius owners in my area get around 5.5L/100km in the summer ugh.

Here's the route:

"Dan Kroushl has discovered a route near his home in Pittsburgh where
he has been able to consistently achieve laps of 100+ mpg and two of
the three drivers who will be assisting him have been able to
duplicate his results on the same course. The third they're confident
can do just as well, but he has not yet been there to try.

They'll start out Friday evening after rush hour and go until they run
out of gas, with each driver taking a four hour shift behind the
wheel on a 23 mile there-and-back portion of four lane road near Pittsburg with 12 traffic lights and two moderate hills. Their technique will be pulse-
and-glide going no faster than 40 mph and rarely slower than 30. Their
goal is to achieve or approach 100 mpg for an entire tank and go 1100-
1200 or more miles, running out sometime Sunday."

" The result was a Prius "hypermileage" marathon. The team drove 1397 miles along a 15-mile course on 12.8 gallons in just under 48 hours. The result: a whopping 109.3 average miles per gallon! It's an unofficial world record. The highest mileage on a single shift was 120.6 mpg, logged by Wayne Gerdes. "

The technique used is "pulse and glide"

""The pulse and glide technique seeks to minimize the amount of time that the engine runs, and minimizes power flowing to and from the battery. The pulse refers to deadband acceleration (no flow to or from the battery) up to 40 mph. Next comes the glide (engine is stopped, no flow at all) where the speed slowly decreases to 33 mph. The cycle continues until a stop is required. At such time the brakes are applied and some regenerative braking helps to maintain the battery level. Brakes are also applied if a downhill stretch causes the speed to exceed 40 mph."

sauceman

Interesting technique.

I guess with our hydroelecticity here, the Prius is clearly a greener solution than elsewhere.

Prius

Heh. Well no engine, no battery so no energy conversion losses and it's a free ride.

Besides, Honda announced that it'll build that FCX fuel cell concept. I think they said it'll be available in 3 or 4 years time? As long as they can find a way to make hydrogen cleanly without burning coal or oil, then we should push for that technology.