Bootlegged

I've been ruminating for a while now to trade-in my '04 TSX with all mods included for an '06 Toyota Prius Hybrid fully loaded. I've researched the Prius Fully Loaded and it offers everything the TSX does PLUS a stock Rearview Camera (mine was not), Smart Key System, and Less Money on GAS!! I do have DVD capabilities from the navi screen but figure I can do the same mod with the Prius LCD.

Can someone sell me on why it would be in my best interests to not pursue this trade agreement?

Please and thank you

JDMTL

why would u wanna trade ur car for that? is it just becuase of fuel efficiency? tsx gets pretty decent gas milage as is...

Power1Pete

Wait until you find out the bill for the battery replacement 5 years down the road...

busterrobertson

many of the prius have been recalled due to it dieing on the highway. they get good gas mileage...but they are soooo boring to drive.

jfbradley

What's the HP on a Prius? About 1/2 the TSX, right? No way...

sauceman

I would actually give you a thumbs-up for the Prius.

Tintin

even less then half...

I once thought on buying a prius, but for a person who LOVES to drive, i do not think that the prius is made for ppl who like to drive (performance wise).

It does though offer many cool gadgets (which is why i liked it), but at the same time, they ha vent perfected this hybrid thing, and since only dealerships know how to fix it, i would think that repairs on the car is $.

Another thing, i once read that the since the car is half electric, that fireman need to take extra lessons on how to (God forbid) cut the car with that machine in case you get into a car accident and are trapped. (and since i know that the majority of them havent, it's an extra risk)

bradykp

i think this argument against hybrids is hilarious. so what? currently, a new battery costs somewhere between 500-1,000. you don't think the prices will drop over the next 5 years somewhat? small price to pay for the environmental benefits hybrids offer out country, especially in metro areas. i really hope a strong push is made to make all NYC cabs hybrids in the next few years. People that lived in NYC their entire lives have no idea what fresh air is.

bradykp

this sounds bogus. it's not like an electric current is running through all parts of the car. i'd love to see a reference to this article.

Comptech-814

take a long hard look at a gorgeous tsx and then look at a prius.


ew. what the hell kind of name is prius anyway it means gay. very very gay trust me i looked it up.

S14 n Tsx

ummm. I don't think he cares about the HP at this point??!! HP=More gas

sccpu3d

I'm not really big into car bashing (and i really wanted a prius, which was before I learned there was a TSX), but TSX's are gonna make you happier.

1.Are you really gonna wait 6 months just to get your hands on a prius? Last time I checked, there was a 6 month waiting list for priuses..... =.=

2. Priuses have crap speed/accel compared to the 4 cyl ones we have now

3. Don't go from sleek and sexy to fat and fugly (It rhymes! xD) I'd rather have the TSX over that mini-sienna.... Is it me or does the prius look like it has like 10 inch rims? rofl

Tintin

repair?
fire fighters
is a hybrid worth it?

There are tons and tons of articles on hybrid cars as they are very popular, run a search and you can learn all you like.

bradykp

"As far as doing [body] repairs on the vehicles, those are the same” for both hybrids and regular vehicles, although the Honda Insight has an aluminum body."

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Bootlegged, I gotta say that this probably isn't gonna be a great move for you. The Prius is in no way a driver's car and doesn't even pretend to be. Plus, as most people have discovered from driving the Prius, that the gas mileage, especially if you do a lot of highway driving, is nowhere near advertised. So that money you'll supposedly save in fuel will take a long tme to add up.

On top of that, the Prius is as sin.

West6MT

The Prius is UGLY,...............case closed. Unless you plan on keeping the car 5+ years,......it does not make sense because that is about how long it takes these hybrid cars to pay off with savings on gas etc (general statement,....based on estimates done on car shows). Plus there is the cost of battery replacement that ppl have already mentioned. Mainly,.......its not a drivers car and looks ridiculous.

bradykp

i disagree on the UGLY statement. A lot of people like the design of the Prius, and it's definitely objective. It's not like the Pontiac Aztec, which was practically undisputed ugly champion of the world. I understand some people don't like them.

Obviously, the Prius is not a "driver's car." no hybrid would be right now. The OP is asking the wrong crowd for advice on this. He should be askign current Prius owners. The ones I know LOVE their car. Most people are doing it for more than just the savings on gas, which isn't as pronounced as people expect, especially if you do more highway than city driving. I'm all for the advancement of hybrid vehicles, but right now, I want a stylish sporty car. I'll have a hybrid as my second vehicle down the road if/when i need one. For now, the TSX gives me decent fuel economy, but a good driving experience.

I like the Prius, it's really just a decision of what you want in a car right now.

BRH

I agree 100 % with this statement. I test drove a Prius a few months ago when trying to decide what was more important to me in a new car. It definitely is no sports car, but it had surprising acceleration for what it is. I was quite impressed with how it drove, and with all the gadgets included in a full-loaded one. And all write-ups on it seem to indicate that it's very well made and reliable.

However, once I decided that I was more interested in getting a sports sedan, the Prius was obviously out of the running. If/when I'm in the market for a practical around-town kind of car though, I'll definitely be taking another look at it.

That said -- It is definitely true about the increased risk of electrical shock for EMT's and other rescuers and yes - even body shops - when it comes to hybrid vehicles. There have been numerous reports on TV news about rescuer's concerns. And my niece's husband, who owns a body shop, explained to me that they need to be specially trained to work on these vehicles -- not in the case of merely banging out a dent, of course, but definitely for when they're repairing major body damage.

crisco

get a new civic instead. The gas mileage difference will be minimal and the $$ you save in the purchase can go toward an upgrade or gas money.

BulldogHockey

I looked at the Civic Hybrid as well. Just looks a little better in my opinion; I can't seem to get into the look of the Prius.

I like the principle behind hybrids (lower gas emissions, less energy dependence) and I have respect for people who buy them. But I don't think it's fair to make a direct comparison between them. The TSX is fun to drive with a great fun factor to gas mileage ratio. Along with it's features and value it seemed the best option for me.

I'm also impressed with the hybrids though and how efficient they are. They just lack the same feeling out on the road. It all comes down to prioirities I guess.

jpt

The prius is a nice car. It has some cool toys. It is less exciting to drive but it's not too horribly underpowered. Especially in the city it is pretty peppy because the electric motor has great low-end torque. It's definitely worse at highway-speed passing though.

If you really care about gas mileage, though, you might want to consider a Jetta TDI instead especially if you drive a lot of highway miles -- it's cheaper, more fun to drive, and gets better highway mileage but slightly worse city mileage. You have to ignore the EPA mileage figures for both cars as the EPA measurements are heavily skewed in favor of hybrids and against diesels. The Jetta TDI is something like 55h/40c and the Prius is more like 40h/55c, so your average mileage will be better with one or the other depending on your driving mix.

Think hard before you change your car based only on gas mileage. At $2.50 a gallon, moving from a 25mpg average car to a 50mpg average car saves you 5 cents a mile. At a 7% interest rate, that means you have to drive 1400 miles per year for each $1000 extra you're paying up front in order to break even. If switching cars would cost you $10,000 (a loaded prius costs about $28k and an '04 trade in in perfect condition is worth around $18k according to KBB) you have to drive 14,000 miles a year just to break even.

Battery life is a nonissue. The hybrid system -- including the batteries -- on the prius is covered by warranty for 8 years or 100,000 miles.

The rearview camera is cool, but you need it, because I at least find it really hard to see out the split rear window in the prius. The smart-key is also cool but comes with a risk. The new LS430 has the same feature, and a friend of mine got a dire warning about it from his dealer when he was shopping: apparently, one of this dealer's customers had his wife drive him to the airport, got out of the car, and his wife didn't realize that he'd taken the key with him until she had parked it at the grocery store. Now she's stuck with no key.

The nav system on Toyota and Lexus has an annoying misfeature: it will not let you use any of the controls while the car is moving.

The Prius does not have a telescoping steering wheel and the seats have no height adjustment, which can make it uncomfortable to drive if you're the wrong size for the car. Also if it matters to you, you should know that there is no currently working iPod adapter for the '06 prius (the '05 adapters are NOT compatible, as my friend recently discovered much to his chagrin).

I think I've covered all the major tradeoffs involved. The TSX and Prius are both really good cars (as is the Jetta if you end up considering it) and your decision will depend heavily on your personal preferences and situation.

first post, i was going to wait until i at least save up enough for my down payment (planning to buy in april) before i posted but oh well

Reach

If you're interested in a Hybrid, check out the forthcoming redesigned Camry hybrid. Its pretty impressive, and will be a 50mpg hybrid. Much more like the Prius and less like the RX, Highlander, Accord etc.

According to the guy who showed me one at the DC auto convention, it will be announced / priced in March and available in May.

CarbonGray Earl

I would actually say get the Prius as well. All of its "issues" are somewhat overblown. As for it being a drivers cars, I'll just say the single occupant Prius's I see on the 55 fwy's carpool lane in the OC are moving a hell of alot faster than I am most of the time in my TSX.

bradykp

is this a typo? you know need to drive 1400 miles per year to break even per $1,000 extra a hybrid costs?

so are you saying...if car A costs me $20,000, and Car B (the hybrid) is $3,000 more, i'd have to drive 4,200 miles a year to recoup the price difference? Over what time period is this?

I'm having a brain fart, and just confused as to where these numbers came from. sorry for being stupid. i thought you'd have to drive considerably more for it to be recouping the costs and breaking even on the car.

crisco

check this out:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/50-litre.htm

I really think the extra cost for hybrid technology is not justified when you can get incredible gas mileage with a regular engine.
But the tech aspect of the Prius is neat nevertheless.

LuvMyTSX

Not a joke...I too heard news stories and read about firefighters needing extra training for what to do with hybrid vehicles in accidents.

jpt

Well, I'm assuming that you keep the car forever, or equivalently that the price difference is reflected in the resale value as well, so that you're only paying for financing (or opportunity) costs of having the money at the time you buy the car. That is, you use the gas savings to pay the interest on the hybrid premium (whether it's the interest on a loan that you took, or the interest you COULD have been making with the money that you paid up front). If you assume that the price difference is gone by resale time, then you do in fact have to drive enough to amortize the capital loss as well as paying the opportunity cost.

To continue with your example, if you plan to drive either car A or car B for exactly five years, and at the end of that time car A and car B will have identical resale values (even though B was more expensive to start), you have to drive 4200 miles a year to cover the interest on the $3,000 premium, but then you also have to save a total of $3,000 extra by the end of five years, which works out to 60,000 additional miles at 5 cents a mile. So you'd have to drive 16,200 miles a year for five years (actually a little less than that, because the money you save earlier can earn some interest and be worth more than the money you save later, but this is getting beyond what I can calculate in my head at work).

But if you assume that, since car B was $3k more at the start it'll be worth say $1500 more in 5 years, you only have to save $1500 over financing costs to break even, so you would only need to drive 10,200 miles a year. And if you want to drive it 10 years and car B would be worth $500 more than car A at that time, you have to save $2500 = 50,000 miles over 10 years for a total of 9200 miles a year.

bradykp

Ahhhh. I see. i never really thought of the fact that it would hold a certain value over the comprable model. very well put. makes the argument for the hybrid slightly stronger.

and this isn't even consider the intangibles such as the good things you are doing for our environment and air.

bradykp

i can understand about issues with under the hood. regardless, i am not worried about the hybrid and this scenario.

DMBand0026

I am a fireman, and that is true. We read almost monthly about a fireman getting killed or seriously injured from cutting apart a hybrid. Most of the hybrids, we aren't even aware that they are hybrid because they look no different from a regular vehicle.

Usually there are bright orange, yellow, or red wires in the hybrid that are colored like that so that we know which ones not to cut, but sometimes it's very hard to cut around them.

About two weeks ago we had a wreck on an expressway up here in the Chicagoland area and we had to cut two people out. The wreck ended up being a fatal, the passenger died, if the vehicle had been a hybrid, I'm pretty sure the driver would have suffered the same fate as the passenger just because of the extra time that it takes to cut hybrids apart.

Than there's all those airbags...but this thread is neither the time nor the place to be talking about that.

Whatever you do end up doing, best of luck with it. If you want my opinion, I'd stick with the TSX. The milage on it is already pretty good and it's a kick to drive.

Tintin

Thank you for clarifying this for me and everyone else on this forum. i have mentioned this to other ppl but no one believes me.

sauceman

True, true. My wife's Smart has the potential of doing as well as 100mpg (75mpgUS). And for a lot cheaper than the Prius or any other hybrid for that matter. Granted, it's a two-seater, but we don't have children, and it's our second car (but we still use it as much as possible), soo...

bradykp

a Smart car is not only an exception to the rule, it's also not available in US, and is not nearly as functional as a prius.

sauceman

It supposedly will be available next year. And you would be surprised about it's functionnality. Aside from the two-seater factor, I can fit in it's trunk two full hockey pouches, or three rimmed tires, or two golf bags with pull carts, or six cases of 24 bottles of beer.

Oh, and all the gear for two weeks of camping out west or down south (including bodysurf boards)

That's hardly enough for a lot of fun!

jpt

While we're on high-mileage cars, the 1990 Geo Metro i picked up to learn stick on gets 50 mpg (that's US not imperial) and cost only $500 in perfect condition (well the paint is a little dull but it runs perfectly).

And it can go almost 55mph up a hill

bradykp

i drove one while in europe. good concept, but not worth it to me.

sauceman

Yeah but, who cares?

The discussion of this thread isn't about you anyway.

Bootlegged

swirlie

Don't forget about that retired couple that did a cross-Canada tour in their Smart car.. partly to show that it was doable. We've got some Crazy Canucks among us.

gpsiir

2 years ago, when the Prius and TSX first came out, I seriously tried to talk myself into the Prius, but after driving both several times, I decided life is entirely too short to drive a car so completely uninteresting as the Prius. So, if the journey is completely irrelevant to you, and getting there is not half the fun for you, then by all means, get the Prius. I'm sure when gas gets to $4 a gallon, you'll save loads over us poor TSX saps. Since so many hours of my life are spent in my car, I wanted a car that would keep putting a smile on my face (and even after 2 years and 48K miles, it still does). I just did a quick price check on the Prius. BTW, dunno about your area, but a fully loaded Prius in mine goes for $32K or more.