Black_6spd

Dom's post from the "got IS instead of TSX" thread got me thinking. ALL of the features above end up bringing up the cost and weight of our cars. How many of them are actually desired by drivers? Some of the high-end luxury cars are really getting out of hand with heated steering wheels, refrigerated glove compartments, power passenger lumbar, and four passenger memory settings. What's next? The hyper-drive gizmo with neon fluxed - capacitor?

From my perspective, I wouldn't want ANY of those features. It would just be additional cost that would have zero effect on my driving experience. Even with the TSX, I really wouldn't miss certain luxury items that ended up making the car cost more like:
- moonroof (hardly open it; excess weight; sacrifices body rigidity)
- heated mirrors - who in Southern California has actually used this feature?
- heated seats - again, being from So Cal, this feature just added weight / cost
- VSA - I've owned all FWD cars and they are very forgiving when making mistakes in a turn / slide / etc. IMO, you really have to suck at driving in DRY conditions to make this feature worth it.
- DBW - I've never made the complete transition from cable to electronic throttle. Another feature I could do without. No thanks, I'll do the driving. If I wanted an electronic throttle, I'd play a video game.
- Cruise control - again, completely useless in Southern California. I've used it 3-4 times this year and immediately had to turn it off when traffic was too dense.

What one item is pretty much useless to you?

LuvMyTSX

I love the moonroof - use it all the freakin' time when it's nice out. Love it, don't want another car without one.

And in NJ, I LOVE my heated seats and could use the heated mirrors, but I have an '04. I use the heated seats a lot and it was one of the bigger selling points of the car to me.

I also wish the '04's had lighted steering wheel controls....I can't see a damn thing in the dark and it's very annoying.

stewie20068

I hate DBW! Everyone I drive with in traffic thinks that I have no finesse. I don't really want to have to post a disclaimer on my visor that says "Sorry for the jerking, It's just that I have DBW" I would rather have a smooth transition. I need to drive an '06 though. Supposedly they fixed the rough transition.

F-C

I could do without any of those, but my wife loves the luxury items.

leftride

iTrader: (1)

cruise control....i have had it on all my cars and rarely every use it. I think when you use CC it is likely that you will pay less attention and therefore more susceptible to accidents and tickets.

Moonroof is nice...i dont use it a ton though
Heated mirrors...never had a need, i park in a garage at home as well as work
Heated seats...use them quite a bit and the only reason my lady likes my car
VSA...it seems useful, its kicked in a few times in the snow
DBW....not really a fan, seems to hinder more than help

YOTH

Moonroof - in addition to the weight...more shit that will rattle ... guaranteed!
We have heated mirrors? Where's the control?

leftride

iTrader: (1)

there are only like 6 buttons

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I seldom use the moonroof and would honestly prefer the added structural rigidity. Personally, I could do without some of the excess weight, throw in a set of lightweight wheels and an LSD, add the keyless ignition and entry system and the TSX would be perfect.

stewie20068

I like my heated seats and so do the girls. it seems to be perceived as the ultimate luxury item.

I have to use cruise control all the time now so I don't speed to much. (I got a ticket a few weeks ago) Otherwise i just keep inching up to 85. Couldn't do without it.

oh yeah and I use my steering wheel controls so often that I don't even need to look, so no need for lights. Plus I like the all aluminum finish look of the '04's much better than the black buttons of the 05+

JediMindTricks

i would give up cruise control. i've used it maybe a total of three times.

mg7726

you're terrible! i had the buttons memorized in like a week!

seriously, i can do without any of those EXCEPT the moonroof. summer cruising out in the country side looking up at all the beu-d-ful stars....priceless!

Motohip

The automatic transmission...

jlukja

ITS NOT A FEATURE, ITS AN OPTION

Motohip

waTSX

Good motivation to "learn by feel." After a while, you won't need the lights.

GIBSON6594

plus there are the different markings on the buttons

fdl

DBW is needed for VSA. They should really be the same option. If you remove DBW, you remove VSA. Other than that, who the hell would want DBW

Motohip

I heard DBW is flawless on the NSX.

fdl

Cant be more flawless (i.e. responsive) than a physical cable

waTSX

No weight savings there. I love cruise control on long trips.

BulldogHockey

- I will probably use the Moonroof quite a bit once the weather warms up
- Heated seats are great in the winters and I will not buy another car without them. My wife complains now when she doesn't get the butt toasters!
- Cruise control, how could I live without that?
- DBW, I certainly don't need it, but that seems to be the future trend. It seems to make the Hondata crack that much harder which sucks
- Heated mirrors, I haven't needed these yet and I live in Minnesota. But when (not if...) we get freezing rain or a strong blizzard with snow blowing around, this will be useful. Nice but not very necessary.
-VSA will not be needed in 99% of my driving since I'm quite used to winter driving, but someday when I need it, it will be there.

Those in So Cal and Fla will not have uses for the heated features, but it sure is nice for those of us tricked into living in the northern climates!

Other features I really enjoy and have not had before are the dual climate control, XM, and bluetooth. I could do without HID's, leather, and MID, but I still like having them.

waTSX

Clearly DBW for the TSX hasn't been perfected, but in the event that it will be, I'd say electricity would be quicker (more responsive) than a physical cable any day. The highest performance machines in the world, modern day fighter jets, use it to good effect on their flight controls.

Stevestr

Those of us in SoCal DO have need for heated features - not all of us have the luxury of parking in garages and at 6 in the morning when it is 47 out - that's still cold and I still have dew all over my car. I wish the '04 had heated mirrors and I do use the seat heaters and the moonroof - even the cruise control on long trips OUT of the city.

fdl

Thats because those are complex computer operations. We are talking about physically opening and closing a throttle.

waTSX

And with fighters, we are talking about physically moving flaps, ailerons, etc. under tremendous loads.

dalieu

I agree. I live in San Diego, CA and can't park my car in a garage because I live in an apartment.

- moonroof: i do use the moonroof, but not as much as i like. the other day i had it opened and was looking up at the stars... it was nice, all my future cars will continue to have moonroof.

- heated mirrors: who in Southern California has actually used this feature? me... see above.

- heated seats: i didnt think i would use this feature all that much at first, but now i use it almost everytime i drive. most of the time i get in my car, the leather feels cold, plus my girl loves this feature. she complains that her 2002 mazda6 doesnt have it, and wants it in her next car.

VSA, DBW, Cruise Control: i could actually do without.

JDMCL9T

I would definetly do without the DBW. If it wasn't for that, I would be boosting 12lbs by now making 300+ whp...

Motohip

So with DBW you can't boost?

acn684

err...get rid of all of them and the tsx suddenly becomes overpriced and we all question why we didn't get a STI?

fdl

I still dont see how they are faster than cables though. When I pull a cable the results are instant. Perhaps the are the same speed, or close enough, but also come with other benefits (reliability, ease of use, etc).

swirlie

No, because it's been done. Just ask the 2 members with Comptech S/C'ed TSXes.

47F is cold? You ppl in Cali are weak!



Moonroof - The sunroof I had in my old car was open all the time when the sun was out. It'd be open sometimes when the rain wasn't too bad, just for air movement.
Heated mirrors - These are great when it's really cold and your mirrors are fogged completely. 15 seconds or so and you can see again.
Heated seats - Warming up those seats faster than your butt can on a cold day is great. Hot seats on sore back is also great.
VSA - Kicked in once so far.
DBW - I use this all the time! Got no beefs with this so far.
Cruise Control - Never really needed or used cruise control much. Always forget about it, too. Haven't used it yet. This one gets my vote.

LuvMyTSX

I know, but it's still annoying as I have to take my eyes off the road to use the controls on the main unit at night. Minor inconvenience, I know, but annoying to me nonetheless. Maybe if I like the FMC I'll get a 2010 or something and hopefully that will have them

BulldogHockey

Not to poke too much fun at the So Cal people, but I have to agree with my Canadian friends. Try -20F sometime. Anyway it's good that the heated features are used by most TSX drivers. We pay for the features regardless.

Black_6spd

Actually, all the pilots I've met absolutely HATE fly-by-wire. They hate all these controls that remove the flying responsibility from the pilot. One of them even mentioned, "Heck, sometimes I WANT to stall the plane!"

LuvMyTSX

I did memorize where they are, I just don't like to fumble around for them. And it's kinda hard in cold weather with gloves on to "feel" my way around! But I do like that they are silver rather than black buttons... WOOT SILVER! Hehehehe....

lilballa

I lovee the fucken moonroof..adds more of a sporty feel to the car

waTSX

Not trying to be argumentative here, just pointing out that DBW clearly has not reached its full potential, at least not in the TSX. That said, the TSX's abrupt throttle tip-in is often a source of annoyance to me.

FDL, I would counter you by saying that cables, while seemingly more responsive, are also prone to stretching and wear whereas a DBW system arguably would not be.

Black_6spd, I'd be interested to hear which type of aircraft the pilots you know fly. Current warcraft are capable of an unbelievable amount of performance. However, realizing that most military pilots are high-achieving, driven sorts, it doesn't surprise me they are reluctant to relinquish any modicum of control

waTSX

I guess that's the point: once you memorize the controls, you don't have to take your eyes off the road or fumble with them.

Driving with gloves in a car with a heater is something I just can't relate to. Driving gloves, yes, cold weather gloves, no. I need to feel the wheel. To each his/her own...

Black_6spd

Since my background is in Engineering & Design, some of the products developed in my past required the feedback of fighter pilots -- especially when manufacturing a component in the cockpit.

During a business trip to the east coast recently, I happened to sit next to an ex-F-16 pilot and was able to ask him a number of things dealing with aviation. He pretty much fit the stereotype desciption of all pilots (commercial & military) I've met: cocky, very smart, and an overall vibe that everything is under their control.

He was actually the one the came to mind when I thought of pilots cursing fly-by-wire.

Sclass88

I will never ever buy a car without HID's. Whenever I drive my sister's Accord, I find myself checking to see if the headlights are actually on. HID's are worth every penny.