JKWright

Well, if you're a lucky guy who happens to be married to a woman who loves cars too, you buy one of each. But get 'em a year apart unless you're much wealthier than I:








The '06 6MT/Navi TSX is hers; the '05 G35 6MT sedan is mine. We ordered the TSX in December in Pearl White/Parchment. Somewhere on the slow boat from Japan it morphed into a Carbon Gray/Quartz. We're happy it did. We really dig the color combination.

This forum has been invaluable for me already. We tint all our cars, and after reading about the window film scratching issue AND the GPS signal degradation problem that might occur when using metallic films, we decided to let the dealer farm the tint job out. We've never done this before, but I figured in this case the shop who tints all the Acuras at Goodson in Irving probably knows what it's doing regarding these issues. Plus if we start getting those itty-bitty hairline scratches I've been reading about, we'll just hand it back to Goodson, say "Fix it," and drive off in a loaner. (The tint is Llumar non-metallic, 35 percent on the sides and 20 on the back with a lifetime warranty against fading, peeling, color change, etc. through Goodson. The G35 has SolarGard metallic film at 35/20 as well. The Llumar is a much more bluish-gray film than the SolarGard, which has a lot of sepia in it. The SG wouldn't look all that great on the gray TSX, and the cooler Llumar shade wouldn't look as spiffy on the earthy-white G35. We lucked out.)

So thanks for the information all! We've had the car a week and it's been great, just a joy to drive. The manual transmission in this car absolutely brings it to life. We came vaguely close to settling for a 5AT model back in December when every dealer in Dallas/Fort Worth was trying to shove one down our throats ("You want a stick in an Acura? It'll kill resale. Plus it's not classy. This is a luxury car. Here, lemme make you the deal of a lifetime on this automatic Navi right over here...")

If anyone wants an amateur compare-and-contrast between the 298-horsepower G and the 205-horsepower TSX, say the word. The cars each have their pluses and minuses. Clearly though we think enough of both to shell out premium money to get them. The TSX is truly a little jewel of a car.

jlukja

Congrats

Nice choices all around.

aznt1217

I gotta find a girl who drives stick lol

afici0nad0

nice cars.

if my g/f hadn't sold her 6mt rsx-s, i think we'd be having a lot of fun cruising...

BusyShifter

Nice pair of cars. Congtulation. I for one am interested in hearing how you compare the two cars.

Tintin

amazing, congrats!

When my brother got a G35 loaner for 3weeks, i had the chance to drive it. I cannot own that car for one reason: it is too fast!

Every time i would drive it, and press the pedal it makes such an amazing sound that you cannot get enough of, and then you realize you are driving way above the speed limit. They say once you own it though, you can control yourself.

Other than that, it is an amaaaaazing ride!

curls

I had a G35 sedan for a rental in Tampa for 10 days last spring. I bought the TSX a month later (couldn't afford the G35, and trusted Acura reliability a lot more).

But, DAMN, even with the sportshift G35, that thing growls and moves REALLY well. I found the handling not as crisp as the TSX, but the grunt when you hit the gas made up for it. Really fun car.

Getting pulled over by a state trooper on the Interstate btwn. Tampa and Orlando sucked though. Damn car was too easy to speed in.

JKWright

Okay, you asked for it.

Powertrain:

The G35 with a manual transmission is a completely different car than the automatic, whether sedan or coupe. It’s night-and-day difference, just like the TSX. Nissan retuned the VQ35 to shift the powerband up several hundred revs in the 6MT, resulting in more peak power (298 horsepower versus 280 in the auto) at the expense of low-end torque (260 pound-feet versus 270 in the auto). Both the G35 and TSX in my opinion are nice, fun vehicles with automatics but not very sporty or engaging. The TSX particularly just begs for a manual transmission.

The shifter in the TSX is fabulous. Smooth, light and with a fairly short throw, it’s hard to miss a gate. The G35’s shifter is directly connected to the transmission (no cables or rods). Its throw is even shorter, but it’s notchier and vibrates in your hand like I remember my brother’s old Pinto doing in 1977. A lot of G35 6MT drivers bitch about the ruckus, saying that kind of feedback doesn’t befit a “luxury” car. Well it’s not a Maybach for crying out loud I say, it’s a gussied-up-and-stretched 350Z. Live with it or get the auto.

The clutch in the TSX is taking some getting used to. It’s very light but engages at the top of the throw, so we’ve been slipping it unnecessarily when shifting because we’re used to Nissan clutches, which typically have a shorter throw and engage much lower. One isn’t necessarily better than the other; they’re just different.

The VTEC I4 in the TSX really comes on the cam I’ve noticed at around 6200 rpm. (Or the tester I flogged the hell out of did when we bought the car; I haven’t taken our TSX there yet and won’t for a while until it’s broken in.) From there the engine just zings smooth as butter to 7100 and beyond into the rev-limiter at, what, 7400 or so? For such a big Four, it’s an extraordinarily smooth engine. The 6MT G35 still has gobs of low-end torque relative to the TSX and overpowers it substantially at all rpms, but it too takes some revs to get the full 298 horses out of it. The problem is that it’s a big 3.5-liter V6 and even with all the intake improvements on the 6MT still doesn’t like to rev much past 6300 or 6400 rpm. (Redline is 7000, but there’s no point in going there.)

Suspension:

Well, there’s The Big Difference: the TSX is front-wheel drive, the G35 rear. Weight distribution favors the G35 and Nissan’s corporate FM (Front-Midship) platform with a nearly ideal 52:48 front-to-rear balance. The TSX is 60:40 or so. The G35 is tuned a little loose in the rear, meaning the VSC cuts in early and often, particularly in the wet, to keep the ends of the car from swapping – even with the limited-slip differential standard on the 6MT. The TSX’s chassis seems very balanced for a FWD car, and while the car understeers like any front-driver, it’s not nearly as plow-heavy as a lot of them. The TSX chassis is light on its feet and very nimble, with a good ride-versus-handling balance that doesn’t beat you to death on rough roads. The sport suspension on the 6MT G35 could use some more compliance. It’s very firm (some would say too firm) and tends to judder over washboard pavement. Nissan seems to have taken the term “sport” regarding suspension tuning over the last five years or so to mean “set the dampers to rock hard.” The standard G35 suspension in the automatic sedans is a probably a better compromise for older guys like me and compares well to the TSX regarding rebound/jounce, spring stiffness, etc.

One of the biggest selling points that swayed me to the TSX over the TL was the TL’s horrendous torque-steer and the TSX’s lack thereof. The ’02 Altima 3.5 SE I owned a few years back was equally distracting, but it didn’t bother me so much because it was a $25K car. The TL at $33K costs far too much money to put up with that sort of nonsense.

The merits of RWD versus FWD on the streets are well known. Depends on your priorities which you’ll be swayed toward. I enjoy the occasional lurid powerslide in an empty parking lot, but as far as me playing Ayrton Senna on the street in either car, that’s not going to happen. And there’s no doubt that I feel better with my wife in a FWD car like the TSX when the weather turns wet, icy or otherwise slick. The G35, even with VSC, can be a handful at times if you apply a little too much throttle.

Interior:

Here it’s easy to get into a pissing match if you’re not careful. The styling of the TSX interior, like all the Acura interiors save the downmarket-and-plasticky MDX (er, Acura Pilot), is first-rate. Seams are tight and materials are top-notch save the leather, which looks and feels like it was stripped from plastic cows. It’s exactly like the pleather in my co-worker’s Accord Hybrid. That's not a compliment. But everything else about the TSX’s interior just oozes style and quality.

Nissan and Infiniti have been knocked (and rightfully so) since Carlos Ghosn took over in the late ‘90s for their cheap interiors across the board. The cost-cutting was too obvious. They’re getting better, but they’re still not to the Lexus/Acura level of interior quality or style. The G35 received an interior and exterior restyle in 2005 and that more than anything was what sold me on the car. We’d driven an ’04 G35 sedan loaner for a day a few years ago and found the interior design so cheap – the theme I think was “Acres of Ill-Fitting Plastic” – that we couldn’t overcome it enough to buy the car. But 2005 saw the addition of genuine brushed aluminum to replace much of the gray plastic around the cabin, brighter and more uniform LED illumination of the dash and gauges, a redesign of the cowl and dash in general along with the center console, improved leather, better switchgear, etc. and the difference was so substantive I bought the car without hesitation.

But overall the G35 lags the TSX in style and fit-and-finish in the interior even though some of the materials are now much nicer. The leather in the G35 is about seven grades higher for example. It’s not even a close race there. That, the real brushed aluminum trim and the power tilt-and-telescoping steering wheel are the only areas I’d give the nod to the Infiniti. Honda did a brilliant job on the TSX’s interior, particularly for the price.

Exterior:

This is subjective obviously. Take your pick. One area where the G35 excels if you buy the 6MT (or Sport package with the automatic) is wheels and tires. They’re 18” 235/45 YR on my G35, which dwarf the 17” 215/50 VR donuts on the TSX. Infiniti has moved to a shiny (but not bling-bling chrome which I do not like) silvery metallic wheel finish that looks both sporty and upmarket. Acura has for whatever mind-boggling reason sticks with the same painted silver appliance finish you can find on your neighbor’s Hyundai. That’s the most disappointing thing about the exterior of the TSX in my opinion. Nice-looking factory alloy wheels can make or break an automotive design in my opinion, and while the cheap-looking TSX wheels don’t kill the deal, they sure don’t help matters either. The ’04-’05 wheels were better-looking but still not great.

On the flip side, the G35 sedan comes equipped with a single muffler and two polished exhaust tips that belies the nearly 300 horsepower underhood. I dislike it; every time I pull behind a G35 coupe with its big dual exhaust tips I have an inferiority complex. Now I have the same problem when pulling behind my wife’s TSX, whose cool dual exhausts try to announce there’s something much bigger than the little four-banger underhood. False advertising is okay in my book. The TSX looks great from behind, better than any other Acura product. The LED taillamps on my G35 have spoiled me though. I wish Honda had stuck ‘em in there on the ’06 redesign like they did the Accord.

Perceived/Real Reliability:

Here’s where we took a bit of a gainer. We’ve owned a bunch of Nissans and two Infinitis over the years – ’91 Sentra SE-R 5MT, ’98 Altima SE 5MT, ’02 Altima 3.5 SE 5MT, ’02 G20 Sport 5MT (see a trend?), ’05 G35 sedan 6MT – and every last one has been completely bulletproof. The Sentra I kept for 10 years because I couldn’t bear to part with it, and other than routine maintenance the only thing that broke was the starter solenoid, and that was in year nine. Same goes for all the other cars. We had the little G20 for over four years and it saw the inside of the dealer shop exactly twice, once to fix a dash rattle two weeks after we bought it and the second to realign the front end after I dropped it into a hole big enough to swallow a good-sized dog. The G35 has been in once as well, to fix a rattle in the glovebox a few months ago. That’s it. Had it over a year.

The TSX has already been in to get a rattle in the passenger A-pillar/windshield area addressed. The dealer service was underwhelming. I showed the service writer lady the rattle five times when I brought the car in, but later in the day she called back to say they couldn’t get the thing going again. No rattles. “Sorry, we can’t fix it if we can’t simulate it,” was all she would tell me. I told her to have the guy rip off the A-pillar trim and pad it anyway. She said he did, but I think she just wanted to get me off the phone.

Infiniti service at Sewell in Dallas is on another plane entirely. The two rattles we had in the G20/G35 were addressed immediately and permanently, and the service writer both times hopped in the car when I picked it up for a ride around the block to make sure it was gone. Then he gave me a croissant (I am not making this up) and a bottle of mineral water before sending me on my way. Goodson just seemed thrilled to get me out of the building.

Having never owned a Honda product, I can only go by what other owners have told me – the the cars are well-made and reliable. I’m sure they are. Only time will tell. But I do expect the TSX will hold up as well as the Infinitis and Nissans. I’ll be disappointed if it doesn’t.

chuson

Nice write up~!!!
I did consider a used 04 G35 but got disgusted by its interior, and bascially could not afford the 05 G35. I have been on the G35 forum (a few of them) for about 2 - 3 months, I think rattling problems were quite serious. Nearly 80% of G35 Sedan/Coupe have rattling here and there, or the driver seat will move something like that. But like you said, can't refuse those V6 power.

gsrthomas

I would not buy a G35 just because it takes ALOT of gas. 10-15mpg some people get. Here is So Cal everyone commutes and gas mileage for me is a big factor.

If I were to get something similar in power I would get an IS350 which gets amazing gas mileage for 306hp. Of course direct injection helpes it achieve a great gas mileage. Some people have been getting 26mpg on the IS350.

paranode

Cool. I ordered my ABP 6MT from Goodson too. Went with Vandergriff initially but they jerked me around so I took my business over to Goodson and have been treated well.

BusyShifter

Very thorough and unbiased write up. What a fun read.

Infamous425

yeah and some people who have IS350s have also been getting 15mpg or 17mpg so it depends on the car/driver

JKWright

Yeah, I've seen posts from folks on G35Driver.com reporting dismal gas mileage. It's puzzling. Now we don't leadfoot our cars like we're running at Bristol, but we do drive them. The G35 sees full-throttle redline shifts every day. So will the TSX when it's broken in. The worst I've gotten in the G35 is 17 mpg in a 50/50 mix of city and highway. Generally it hovers right around 20. The best I've gotten is 23 when I had to make several freeway trips on a tank.

So yeah, gas mileage is dismal compared to what I expect from the TSX. No doubt. But if you're getting 10 mpg in a G35, you've either dropped a supercharger in there or you've got a problem.

And that Lexus IS is a nice car. I drove a 250 6MT because you can't get a six-speed with the 350 (well done Toyota!) and it compared with the TSX very well. It's a nicer overall car and a smoother drive. But it's also got a back seat only suited for clowns of the midget variety. Useless. What were they thinking? If you're going to build a coupe, don't stick four doors on it.

Vandergriff was a joke. I felt like I was at a Kia dealer. I don't know what was wrong with those people. The Internet sales guru and the regular salesdroid both lowballed us on my wife's G20 by several thousand dollars, then had the nerve to tell me that if we were to buy one of their 5ATs on the lot (they had no 6MT/Navis and reported finding only one in that green color somewhere in Oklahoma) they'd bump their trade offer up by $500. Well, screw you guys, we're going home.

And we did.

Goodson was still full of fast-talkers. Their Internet guy, Bill something, ticked us off something fierce when he dropped $500 off the trade offer when we went to pick the car up even though Edmunds and KBB showed it hadn't fallen a single dime in three months. "Hey, your car has another 2000 miles on it. That's the best I can do," he said.

We came about an inch from walking out and plopping down another $10K on an FX35 (our second choice... talk about dismal gas mileage though!), then doing donuts in it outside his office, just to make a point.

So sadly, we've been thoroughly underwhelmed by Acura sales. David McDavid in Plano was no better. Their Internet guy e-mailed and said, "Yeah, I can get you that [6MT/Navi] car at such and such a price," then I never heard from him again. I won't beg someone to take our money, that's for sure.

So good luck with Goodson. Maybe I'm just a jerk.

And BusyShifter, thanks for the kind words.

paranode

Yeah Vandergriff gave me some line about how the factory won't make my color in 6MT (in other words they didn't want to put my order in on their move because they weren't making enough). So I said screw you guys and ordered the same car over at Goodson no problems.

Helped that I knew a guy there though, got to bypass some of the typical sales BS. And David McDavid was the worst. I went over there and briefly looked at what was sitting on the used lot, so this sales creature from the used car section who had obviously been working there about a week and knew nothing about the product followed me all over the new car lot. Every time I asked a question he had to run inside and ask someone. What a joke. Never did a new car salesman even come out.

psteng19

Nice garage

I'd be in a G35 sedan as well, but the gas mileage is a deal breaker, and it's easily $5-7k more than the TSX when loaded up.

Tsx536

Thanks. Very well written writeup! You do a great job of describing the differences between the two cars

odessa

Thanks. Very nice write up. I do wish leather was better in the TSX.

JediMindTricks

nice cars! enjoy them both!

Black_6spd

Nice writeup. I guess at your rate, you'll be buying an M45 next.

My wife and I happened to cross-shop the G35 sedan, 330i ZHP, TL and the TSX. If I made the decision purely on performance alone, it would have been the 330i hands-down. However, reliability and value came into the equation and I couldn't be happier with my consolation prize.

After searching for months for a brand new 330i ZHP 6MT, that didn't have every package in the world, we gave up. When we did find a 6MT, the options pushed the BMW out of our price range of $35k.

As far as the G35 6MT sedan is concerned, it looked absolutely perfect on paper. However, the vibrating engine, notchy tranny, and low-revving powerband combined with the interior styling elements you had touched on made it come off the list. It took 2 rounds of test drives. My 1st test drive didn't leave a good impression and I wondered if I was being overly picky. It deserved a follow-up with the wifey. I gave her no feedback on the car before she drove it. To my surprise, she had the same exact criticism on the tranny and the vibration of the engine. Additionally, both of us were turned off at how intrusive the traction control was a higher RPM upshifts. The most unpleasant was the irritating "growl" that was heard while the DBW was holding the throttle plate open during shifts. While I'm sure this could have been reduced by turning the traction control off, we wanted to see what daily driving would be like.

In the end, our loyalty+bias toward Honda ended up winning out. That left us with the TL and perhaps the TSX. We all know how that ended.

JKWright

The three Acura dealers we visited were all disappointing in their own unique and unusual ways. It's a good thing that Honda makes such an outstanding product, because frankly I think a lot of people (including me) would otherwise walk out and not look back. I mentioned Kia as a dealer comparison earlier, and I wasn't exaggerating. I helped a friend of my wife look at a Sportage several years ago and came out feeling like I needed a shower. Vandergriff left us with the same I-feel-grubby-and-abused feeling. Goodson wasn't much better.

Infiniti doesn't exactly have the premium dealership sales experience market cornered either. Sewell is exemplary -- I can't rave about them enough -- but we took a trip to Crest in Plano for a comparison and they were just as pushy and what'll-it-take-to-put-you-in-this-car as the Acura dealers we dealt with this round. So buyer beware I guess.

What color combo did you order?

Oh man, that's a man's car there. My pocketbook is too girly-girlish to handle that.

I can totally relate regarding the traction control. It can be very intrusive. It's also easily disabled, but if you're foolish enough to do so and not experienced in RWD dynamics, you'll find the tail end is way too easy to break loose in normal driving. There's so much torque down low that one stab of the throttle around a tight turn in first or second will send the rear end wide in a hurry. Nissan should've tied the backside down more I think. Last month's Road & Track criticized the all-wheel-drive G35x for being too tail happy; you can imagine what they'd have said about the RWD sedan.

I'm not sure what you mean about the growling, but Nissan tuned the VQ35's intake and exhaust pretty aggressively even in the G35 sedan so it makes a fair amount of noice. I love it, but I can see how some folks might be turned off by it. I really can. I think the TSX despite being a little four-banger sounds more upmarket at WOT, particularly what I remember from the tester I drove above 5500 rpm. The whole package just ripped to redline and beyond with a really pleasing timbre. The G35 is definitely throatier and grainier. I agree it sounds cheaper, although there's no denying it also sounds twice as powerful.

We didn't drive a 3-Series when shopping for either car. Probably a mistake. But I'm pretty cautious when it comes to build quality and a manufacturer's reputation for reliability, and BMW and all the German marques give me the willies there. I have no desire for a dealer service writer to know me on sight, and there's a darned good chance of that happening with a BMW, Mercedes or Audi.

We did drive a C240 6-speed and an A4 2.0T 6-speed. Both were nice cars, but for the money not a very good deal. The Merc in particular was a funky vehicle. "Mercedes leather" is standard (read: crappy-looking pleather that makes the TSX look like it's swathed in Alcantara), but you can drop $2K for the real stuff if you like. Bluetooth is unavailable, but you can spend a total of $1600 for a special Mercedes phone and wired cradle that'll integrate with the car. You get the idea. By the time you're done adding up the numbers, you've spent $40K for a car that's no quicker than a TSX, far less reliable and has a goofy set of proprietary electronics in the cockpit.

The Audi, while a neat car to drive, was similarly silly in its options packages. And to get it even close to a TSX features-wise, we were looking at $41K. Insane! Don't get me started on the $29,995 IS250 6MT either. For that you get halogen headlamps, four wheels, a body, air conditioning and a powertrain. Nav? Extra. Bluetooth? Extra. HIDs? Extra. Cool wheels? Extra. We priced one at $37K and were still going on the options sheet before we gave up and left.

Nobody touches Acura in pricing and features. I mean, no one is even close. Even my G35, which I love, would be close to $40K if I could load it down with all the features in the TSX. Which I can't, because some of them aren't available. For example, Infiniti's navigation system package is also $2K, but Bluetooth is an extra $600 on top of that. And neither includes voice recognition or touchscreen. You've got to use that stupid little joystick to mouse around the screen. And speaking of the screen, it pops out of the upper console for all the world like the dead rising from the grave, and you know that sooner or later that mechanism will break out of warranty and Sewell will smile, make you feel comfortable and at home, offer you a croissant and mineral water and hand you a bill for $700 to fix it.

Nissan/Infiniti is great at including neat, expensive and unusual performance-related hardware (there's a ton of aluminum used in the G35 suspension and body; even the Altima has an all-aluminum multilink rear and aluminum trunk and hood) and that's where they choose to spend their money, but they'd be smart to buy a few Hondas and Acuras, take 'em apart and see what's offered at a given price point in the cockpit.

All in all, we're thrilled with the TSX and happy you guys are here to help.

paranode

ABP with Ebony interior. It will be worth the wait, I think that color looks great (and I HAD to have a manual). They had some 5ATs they tried to get me into but I would not have any of it.

calgary2800

The vibration of the shifter and notchy gates of the G35 MT are not good. I test drove it and thougth this thing has a Heckyl and Jeckly personality. Not for me.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I gotta hand it to you, JKWright, your review was probably one of the most objective I've read in a long time. While I don't necessarily agree with all your points, it is well written and definitely shows both strengths and weaknesses of both vehicles.

Glad you're enjoying the G35. I looked at one (in each of the sedan and coupe, though a 6MT sedan was damn near impossible to come by around here) and decided against it for my own reasons. Good choice nonetheless and hopefully we'll be able to help you when you need it.

kyotousa

G35 all the way