ucsdtriton

Prices are for TL/TSX with Navi from Acura.com: MSRP + $545 Dest. Charge (anybody else notice the $45 increase in dest. charge...):

TL: $35,195
TSX: $29,035
Difference of over $6K.

WOW! Before official pricing came out, I was guessing maybe a $4k to $5k difference. If you include the fact you can get a TSX for about $500+ off MSRP and the less taxes, we're talking an easy $7,000 difference.

Now, I don't feel bad at all, for NOT waiting for the TL, that's a whole'lotta cash! But hey, if you got the cash for the TL, I'd probably buy one too. Like the TSX, the TL's gonna be the best value, if not simply the best vehicle, in it's class.

Acura is on a ROLL!!!

larchmont

Interesting.

If the prices were reversed, I'd still get the TSX.

Call me crazy? No good, about a thousand people already beat you to it.

Count Blah

I know what you mean, larchmont. I saw the TL last night for the first time. I was expecting to be impressed, but I just kept comparing it to my TSX. Sure it has some more features, but I like the overall package of my TSX better.

tsx-mdxman

The TL's looks are growing on me and the acceleration numbers, etc, look terrific. However, I don't need the additional speed and am totally satisfied with the stock handling capabilities and feel of the TSX. Plus, the engine is incredibly smooth for a 4. I have a slightly bigger version of Honda's V-6 in the MDX - it has moxy, no doubt but you have to believe me when I say the TSX engine is quieter and feels smoother. Very satisfying...
_____________________________
04 TSX CG AT/NAV
03 MDX SSM TOURING/NAV/RES

sauceman

I don't know... If I was in the market for a 6 cylinder, maybe I'd consider the TL. 6-speed, 260hp. I'd give it more than a second thought.

93Kewl

If I didn't have my 9-3, it would be the TL by a long-shot. All the features that the TSX doesn't have, a more powerful engine, and it's smaller than the "over bloated" Maxima. Of course, we're talking two different ride/driving experiences, but the raw power of the TL would make up for the lack of "twisty" experience that the "smaller" sedans offer.

Jason

What'd you pay for the 9-3?

dom

He got 0% financing over 108 months and 34,000 in dealer incentives. He only had to pay for his first tank of gas and rust proofing.

Jason

Bahahahaha.

Come on domn, I was serious. If this turns into another TSX v. 9-3 thread it gets locked.

dom

Kewl will know I was kidding. I think I remember him saying something about 4K in incentives. When I was over at VWVortex. most of the Saab owners were saying the got 4, 5 and 6 off in incentives when they bought their 9-3's, thats why I was joking about it.

I think the consensus in the old 9-3 vs TSX thread was that the 9-3 after all the discounts was about 2k more than the TSX.

I wish Acura was giving 4K incentives.

93Kewl

Domn,

That's pretty funny! Too bad it's not true!

But seriously, I got my 9-3 fully loaded Vector for 32.5K. I received a 4K cash back incentive. Great deal. I could have went even cheaper with an Arc but the Vectors sport seats are some of the best ever (even better than my CL-S) and I liked the more aggressive look of the Vectors' exterior trim.

bowersan

Back to the original topic of the thread-

Interesting how much the TL is going to cost in the states, and how little it will cost here. If the information we have is true ($40,800 CDN) for the base TL (no navi, no bluetooth, no XM sattelite) then, according to XE.net's currency conversion, the TL in Canada is going to cost $30,666.66 USD (based on echange rates at 10:56am on October 7th, 2003)

Honda is giving Canada an AMAZING deal if this is so.

J.

Jason

Is that 32.5K before taxes? That's a lot of coconuts!

bob shiftright

Dunno, but if you want an approximation of the 9-3 "street price" try carsdirect.com, get their quote and then subtract $500 (approximately Cars Direct's "pound of flesh"). Othewise, because of the extremely variable dealer incentives and different classes of GM customers (GM employee? GM supplier? GM retiree? GM credit card?) and financing, getting GM pricing is like getting a quote for a used camel in Baghdad.

I haven't checked today, but my "best guess" is that the 9-3 is still priced "somewhat" higher than a Honda TSX is, without all the games.

Of course I could be wrong....

93Kewl

Yes, the 32K was before taxes.

Still a great deal for all that the Vector offers. You gotta figgure that a fully loaded TL (auto tranny) would offer just about the same features (except the obvious difference in engine size/power) for around $35-36K with absolutely no room for negotiations. So I would think 38K would have gotten me out the door with a car that had a much "features" as my Vector.

Yes, it's alot of cash. But sometimes you need to spend some money to get the "finer" things in life. Just like how the Civic drivers (for example) feel about plunking down 26-28K for a TSX.

Jason

See kewl, you sit there and blast the TSX drivers for making fun of the 9-3, so when we say ok, no more of this, let's have a nice discussion, you drop something like the above statement. You act innocent and then belittle us. That's just not cool man. I would never go on the 9-3 boards and do what you just did.

1. The TL is $33,195. The last I checked you can't get a navigation system in the 9-3 so the price of "$35-36K with absolutely no roon for negotiations" is irrelevant.

2. As well optioned as the Vector is, and it is very nicely equipped, your 2003 9-3 DOES NOT have the same features as a 2004 TL. More power, bluetooth, 5.1 sound, XM radio (2004 may have this available but 2003 did not), etc.

3. I'm not a Civic driver, I was a CL-S driver. That's a shitty comment from a "Cavalier" driver such as yourself. Not nice.

dom

Hmmm, I can see why Jason would be upset about that comment, I'm still not sure what to make of it. I think your calling the TSX a glorified Civic??

Kewl's comments regarding the TSX get even harsher over at VWVortex as well.

wishiwere

Haha...that is true about the GM pricing - you have to do a lot of work to make sure you know you are getting the best price you can. Imagine how complicated it can get if you're trading in a used camel for your GM car?

As far as the pricing of the 93, it really depends on the trim you get. Since there are more choices for the 93, it ranges from being a couple grand cheaper than the tsx to a couple grand more expensive. Kewl's car, which he got for 32.5k, has many more features than a tsx (like power passenger seat, memory driver seat, trip computer, rear parking assist, etc.), so it's not an apples to apples comparison. If you put together a comparably equipped 93 linear, it comes out to about the same as the tsx (maybe a little above or a little below, depending on your negotiating skills). Not trying to start a flame war at all or anything...just pointing out the facts. Also, these prices were for '03s. I haven't checked in a while, but last time I heard, the '04s don't have the rebates, so if that's the case, the real world cost of them probably is significantly higher. Finally, given Acuras same price scheme for the MT and the AT, the relative value of the car to me really depends on the transmission you got. In my opinion, Acura really pulled the rug over the eyes of the MT drivers. An auto tranny is usually around a $1000 option. To charge the same and not offer anything else (like better tires, an lsd, etc.), really makes the AT a significantly better value than the MT (and since I will not buy a new car with an AT, this was a big deal to me).

To keep this on topic and not get the thread locked, I agree that the delta between the tsx and the tl is a bit too much. I think they did a very nice job with the tl, but it's just not enough to warrant over a 20% price increase. But, I think that msrp is just a marketing thing anyways, and you will see the market take over after the initial "enthusiast" demand dies out, and given the much higher volume Acura plans for the TL, you will see it go for quite a bit more under msrp than the tsx does. I'm guessing when it all pans out, you'll be able to get the TL for about $4500 - $5000 more than the tsx.

Jason

This was about the 9-3's price and features compared to a TL. We've heard about the 9-3 v. TSX ad nauseum. Go Cubs!

Brad

Me too. The reason that I like the TSX is that it is a bit smaller, but not too small.

Is the new TL the same size as the US Accord?

93Kewl

You guys are much too sensitive and take things WAY out of context. Outrageous!

What I meant is that people who drive "less" expensive cars (yes, I was one of them at one time) aspire some day drive cars with more features, options, and performance. MOST OF THE TIME THIS MEANS SPENDING MORE MONEY. If you're coming from the likes of a Civic, Grand AM, Neon, whatever, you are going to need to spend more money to get a finer car like the TSX. Is this not true?

For those of you coming from a "more expensive" car, look at it this way...you paid more money for that car for some reason or another. Whether it be a 260HP engine loaded to the gills with features (ala. TL/CL) or a more luxurious ride, whatever. Let's call a spade a spade and understand that the TSX while providing a very "sporting" and "exhilerating" ride to some, does leave off some options (which are not even available) to get it's price down to the level which Acura wanted to place it.

So, I should feel insecure because I paid 32,5 for a car when a Porsche owner says "you need to spend money for the finer things in life?" Come on guys, I know you have tougher skin than that.

larchmont

Maybe, we'll just have to see. After just seeing the TL, but before driving it, this is basically what I guessed would be the case. I said it was shocking how close and similar the TL seems to the TSX, and I said that I expected that most of the public will see the cars are really similar and close, they might even view them basically as different trim levels of the same car. The price difference stated by Wish sounds about right (and FWIW the prices of different trim levels often do differ by that much), but I wouldn't be surprised if it winds up being less.

larchmont

No, it's smaller than the Accord, MUCH smaller. It's very close to the size of the TSX.

P.S. That's about the Accord sedan. Coupe is smaller, but still bigger than the TL.

Jason

Ok I see your point now, but you can understand how I took it the way I did. No problem. But you do need to get your facts right on the TL.

93Kewl

Really? That's interesting. I made two posts on the Vortex (the only two I ever posted) - one posting that I voted for the 9-3 by a long-shot, the other thanking someone for the complements on the pics I posted.

Now it looks like you're instigating. Please do not spread false information.

larchmont

Suggestion, I think: Try hard not to be saying stuff about the Saab 9-3, beyond a certain point, on threads that aren't about the 9-3.

Nothing personal, Kewl, and I know I've gotten a lot out of the 9-3 stuff, but as Jason said, we're risking everything becoming a Saab debate.

So, can we let the 9-3 stuff go from this thread?

fdl

In Canada the difference in prices is only about 13% (assuming the figures posted here are correct). Go figure that one out

So you yanks can come up here and buy a new tl for about 30k, even with your sinking dollar. If the USD dollar was still at the level it was a year or so ago it would ony cost you just over 27k!

93Kewl

Ok, I missed three options or std features that the TL may have that a 9-3 does not. But I do know that things like power and memory seats, rear parking assist, one touch auto down windows, auto side down side mirrors, anti-pinch windows/and sun-roof (not sure if the TL has this), bi-leveling Xenons (not sure if TL has this either), etc. match the two cars as far as features go.

To stay on topic about the TL, whether the car is 32k or 37K fully loaded, based on features (performance or otherwise) on what it offers, is definately worth IMHO the extra 6K over a TSX. If your driving preference is more toward what the TSX offers than that 6K would obviously not worth it.

Oh btw, I really like what Acura is doing with the TL - keeping is "smaller" and sporty looking. I am glad they did not go the way Nissan did with the Maxima - making that car an overbloated monster. I could definately see a TL as nice supplement to my 9-3 - if I only had the garage space!

Jason

I agree. I think the TL is probably worth the difference in price. I can't say for sure because I haven't driven it, but the TL sounds like my next car. The TL will be like a TSX+. Acura is doing a wonderful job differentiating their lineup and creating segments to market to. I bet the next RL will be incredible.

larchmont

....and I think the problem with the Maxima is not just that it sort of sucks, but that it's so close to the Altima that there's no clear differentiation in the public's mind what the two cars are. Do WE even know? I think we sort of know, but it would be hard to clearly characterize the distinction.

So.....will this be the case with the TL and the TSX? I think the differences are fairly clearly drawn and that the cars will be seen as having distinct "personalities." And in any event I don't think it'll be a "problem" because both cars are good enough to be successful. But there may well be an issue of HOW MUCH of a difference people feel there is, and it might not be enough of a difference to support a large price differential.

dom

"My vote goes by a long-shot for the 9-3 (especially in Vector/Aero trim)."

Ok, maybe I should'nt have said harsher, but the reason I made that comment is simple. When you initially bought your 9-3 you made it seem like it was a toss up between the TSX and 9-3. Now its 9-3 by a long-shot?

Its seems to me anyway that you don't think as highly of the TSX as I thought. And thats fine as everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I think your trying to hide your true opinion. I'm sorry if I've completly mis-read your stance.

larchmont

That's what I meant too.

BTW -- If I was Honda/Acura, I'd have called it the TLX -- or, is "TX" taken? Although I don't know if Texas would have appreciated it.

Jason

Dude. You're a good man domn and a valuable member, but let this shit go ok. Who cares what he thinks about the TSX. He bought a Saab. Enough said. Let's not nit-pick this thing to death. Please don't respond 9-3. Save it for another thread. Just as we were getting back on-topic...

Jason

You and I made this point back in May or June. And we're still right BTW.

wishiwere

Yes, I definitely agree that they seem more like different trim levels than two totally different models. But, economically speaking, I think Acura will be able to maintain higher margins on the tsx than on the TL, and therefore, just on a feature-by-feature or spec-by-spec basis, in a year or two and beyond, I think the TL will come out as the better value. The combination of producing much larger numbers of them, as well as building them in Ohio as opposed to Japan, must bring the true market price of the TL down quite a bit comparatively (similar to how you can get an Accord for invoice or lower...). For this reason, I don't see how Honda can keep making the tsx in Japan, unless it really is interested in just making it a low production "niche" car and not a true money maker for the company, because otherwise it is gong to hit a point where for not much more, you can get the TL, and that will kill the tsx sales in my opinion.

Jason

Speaking to wishiwere's point, does anyone know what a JDM/Euro Accord goes for in US Dollars? Maybe Honda is getting a nice premium on the TSX relative to that car to make up for any currency/efficiency issues.

larchmont

Not if the TSX is seen as more outstanding for what it is than the TL is for what it is -- which I think will be the case. You may see the TSX winning all kinds of recognition that the TL won't (including but not just awards).

Brad

That's an excellent point. Countless Yanks are buying their cars in Canada, much to the displeasure of both domestic and foreign distributors of these cars in the US. We're looking at several thousand dollars difference for some makes and models.

(Gee, do we see a parallel between car pricing and prescription drug pricing in the two countries? A big rip off for the American consumer is what we are seeing.)

Now, some US dealers are refusing to perform warranty work if you bought your car in Canada.

wishiwere

I can understand and appreciate that people will see the tsx as more outstanding for their needs than the tl, and therefore will still buy the tsx. But, I really think that that is the exception, not the rule, when you apply it to the masses. The average person out there, if shown the tsx and the tl, and the feature content in each, and the engines in each, will prefer the tl if it costs only a little more (ie, if due to the production numbers as well as the production location, the tsx is relatively more expensive than the feature content accounts for). Again, I am with you, in that I like a smaller, more nimble vehicle. I'm also one of the fools who in this day and age of advanced automatic transmissions only buys sticks because I love the connection with the car you get with it. But, I also realize that the vast majority of the country drive automatics, and buys cars like the accord and the camry, because they offer great bang for the buck, even if they are an enthusiast's nightmare (except maybe the 6mt accord coupe). That's why, as far as the bottom line goes, I see the TL really pinching off the tsx's sales, if the tsx is continued to be produced in such comparatively low numbers and imported across the seas while the TL is made in-house.

Jason

I disagree with this because $6000 is not "only a little more," it's a TON more. I submit that the TSX will pinch off the TL's sales because of the price increase relative to the previous-generation TL. I'm not saying the price increase is wrong or unjustified, but rather, that the people who are used to buying a TL for a certain price (the non-enthusiast), may not justify the price increase in their own minds and will turn to the TSX instead.