Belzebutt

I went to an Audi dealership for the first time ever yesterday and test-drove an A3 2.0T with DSG.

The interior is very nice, I would say the fit and finish is on par with the TSX. The dashboard material seemed a little better, not surprising considering this car is newer and they always come up with better and better plastics every few years. The layout and shape of the buttons though I have to say the TSX does better, the Audi just seems dated with its mish-mash of big and small knobs and buttons and the red lighting. Still, it's an interior I could live with.

The handling was very very good, it even seemed to have a little less body roll than my TSX, but it was very similar, I felt right at home. The low-end acceleration was better I think, I spun the tires unintentially a couple of times.

The DSG was very smooth and slick, I liked it a lot. But the shifting time was did not have as marking effect on me as I expected, it just seemed like a very natural transmission but didn't make me to "WOW". I was a littel disappointed that even in the manual mode it shifts for you, unlike the TSX. Still that's not a deal-breaker.

The price is a shocker though. The base price might be reasonable but if you attempt to bring it on par with the TSX it really adds up QUICK. Sunroof, leather and xenon put you WELL over the TSX price. Only the DSG is a good deal on this car at around CAN $1600.

I heard bad things about Audi reliabiliy, and the first car I sat in had a problem with adjusting the front seat and the sales guy was embarassed about it.

Overall, really nice car but I'm not sure it's worth the price.

feelgood13

does it smell like a crayola factory?

vidgamer

Disable the VSA, and you can spin tires in the TSX.

The DSG sounds neat. I would have liked to have test-driven the A3, but I think I'm probably better off with the TSX.

EuRTSX

Spinning your tires

pizzaman555

My 2001 Jetta always smelled like crayons and every other volkswagen I was in.

feelgood13

since Audi is owned by VW, i was wondering if the audi suffers from the same crayola effect. I cant believe vw wont address this problem with vw cars.

IranBT

It ain't...

Belzebutt

Didn't notice a crayon smell... To be honest the dashboard material impressed me the most about the car, more so than the DSG.

NJSGTI

I have an 06 VW GTI with the same 2.0T and DSG as the A3 and I have had so many problems with it. I am now getting it bought back under the Florida Lemon Law and I am getting another TSX. I will never buy anything from VW, Audi, or anything they make.

bibby

I would say if you can get an A3 with leather, sunroof, and hid, u are right in the price range to get a A4 non-quattro too! A3/A4 are worth it, only if the reliability is at least on par with Acura (TSX). The materials are nice, the engine is fast (easily chip too), and the design is okay. I used to drive VWs and family members got Audis, I love everything it had except for having my car in the shop more than with me. : )

stanwelks

I have spent time looking into Audis, VWs, and Vovlos and the things I have been reading on the message boards about them are just terrible. How can these cars be put together so poorly???

Roffles

I'm curious. What problems did you have with it. Their has been a lot of propaganda coming from the VW enthusiast camp stating the new generation VW's are way more reliable. Are they blowing smoke to sell more cars?

cuteguy1414

iTrader: (1)

My wife's 2004 Audi cabriolet experienced so many problems that whenever I ask her if she wants another Audi (we are trading it soon) she would stay quiet. I bet she is confused about the compliments she received for its looks and the inconvenience of visiting the dealerships so many times in the past. By the way, she is driving a loaner today as that damn car is in for repairs again..this time the glove compartment just fell apart..

cp3117

It doesnt matter what make you buy. Every manufactuer has its Lemons and problems. Go look over at Vwvortex and you will see people mad at their new TSX and especially the Civic Si etc with all the problems their having and swear they will never buy one again.

I like the TSX and its a good car. It was my second choice and my first was the Jetta 2.0T. You just couldn't beat the overall pkg of price, perf, handling, luxury etc (mind you it has every option possible). The MKV is in its first totally redesigned model year. I am about to start my second year of flawless ownership except for a small rattle that was fixed with my first oil change. Thats pretty good for a new designed car.

Our family has owned GM, Ford, Honda and even owned a Toyota dealership at one point. This VW by far has been the best new car we have owned for initial overall quality.

Take it for what its worth as im sure i will get flamed for this post, but if you want a honest answer from an actual owner....here ya go.

PS.... I wouldnt say its just owners that are saying the new MKV is more reliable. Even Edmunds, consumer review etc are giving it great initial quality reviews

Belzebutt

I kind of get the impression that when you hear all the bad stories about VW/Audi on this message board, it's from people who are here because they had a problem with their car. All the happy Audi owners are out buying another Audi.

Maybe a better way to judge this would be to see how many people are at VWVortex saying "I'm sick of VW, I'm off to buy another brand". You don't see many Acura people leaving here for that reason (or at least being vocal about it), I wonder if it's the same over there.

Newplay1

So the new DSG is the shitz-nit eh?


I'm sure its a nice car but...
.
.

No stick no care..

JediMindTricks

i drove a vw gti w/ dsg last weekend...and i was very impressed.

NJSGTI

In my 4 1/2 month experience with a VW, I would never consider a product by them again. It is just my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I loved everything else about it like the power and the ride, but with the problems I've had, its really turned me away from VW.

dom

How much were you quoted?

cp3117

True...you are going to get more people saying their sick of VW and off to buy another brand over at Vortex compared to here. Thats mainly because of production numbers though. If you build more, your bound to have more problems or complaints.

If you look at Fourtitude (audi) its pretty much the same as here as far as satisfaction goes. Either way, you cant really compare a Jetta to a TSX unless its a GLI or a loaded 2.0T . These are the only two that have the same drivetrain as the Audi. A drivetrain thats been getting rave reviews.

Roffles

No, I'm not a fan of Audi or VW and will likely never own one. I just want to know what specific problems you had with your car so I can compare it to the problems that have typically tainted VW in the past.


It takes a lot of serious and consistent problems to use the lemon law...I'm sure there are a few TSX's out there with some serioius problems, but I've yet to hear of a TSX having the type of problems that warrant the Lemon Law. Don't get defensive now, just kindly indulge my curiosities as to what problems you had with your Audi....I'd be curious to know if they are similar to the previous generation VW's.

nwalbert

I drove an A4 for a couple of years before I got my TSX. Although the Audi had many problems, I still really enjoyed and liked my car while I had it.

Now that I have driven the TSX, I will never go back though. In my opinion it is a more well balanced car. That is, it offers a little bit of everything.

I don't think there is any question that Acura/Honda's reliability is far superior to that of VW/Audi. Honda/Acura is always at the top and Vw/Audi seem to always be at the bottom. I still have not seen a Volkswagen product be "recommended" by Consumer Reports and I have had a subscription for a few years now.

All that being said I am occosianlly still tempted by the beautiful lines of those new A4's!! The Passat is not a bad looking car either, though I would never even consider that one.

At this point, my next car will be either another TSX or a 325.

absolude

It's allways the same.
Every new model comes fully loaded with claims of improved reliability.
Then it actually performs OK in initial quality only to fall appart like ALL the other vw.

Just for fun I punched this search

http://www.google.com/search?client=...utf-8&oe=utf-8

enjoy

NJSGTI

The problem Ive had with my GTI is that it will downshift by itself and go from 45 or 50 mph to about 20 in 5 seconds. It just happened today and the engine light came on again. Now the car will not go above third gear. I cant really even drive it where I live because the average speed limit is 45 mph. I can't wait to take it back in four more days. My GTI is the biggest peice of shit ever.

EuRTSX

which is why i would never buy a Vee Dub.

cp3117

VW has been having some problems with their new DSG (mostly from their "Gearbox ECU". This is a brand new design though and some problems are to be expected. Honda of all manufactuers and owners hopefully wont harp on this, especially with their history of tranny problems and they dont even have a 6sp auto for the near future in sights. Most car makers are already looking at 7sp, such as Toyota.


The link provided was interesting, but if you type in acura+problem or any other manufactuer for that matter, you get the same results.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...cura%2Bproblem

cuteguy1414

iTrader: (1)

All of them have problems but I would guess that there are surely more VW/Audi owners who are experiencing reliability problems. We are, unfortunately, one of those owners. We are currently waiting for the replacement tranny for her 2004 cabriolet which would be be covered by the warranty. We have personally experienced these quality/reliability problems and to those who defend Audi/VW, loyalty is commendable but the blind kind is stupid. We will be replacing the Audi soon..

absolude

Hehe, good try.
Still, Honda- Acura problems aren't associated with the word lemmon nearly as offten as vw.

I don't see the need to point out the huge problems of DSG.

Better try to point to something that doesn't brake. After owning 2 of these POS I can't.
And that was back in Europe, made in Germany cars.

bradd

I came to the TSX from a 2003 Passat and had only 1 problem with it and that was a bad hazard flasher, pretty minor. I came to Acura because Audi VW has priced themselves out of the market, I looked at a comparable A4 2.0T and it was about 10K more than the TSX. I was set to buy another VW/Audi but the new Passat is too big, the new Jetta doesn't have enough luxury features, the A3 is too small, the A4 way over priced. I know the strong Euro has a lot to do with it but I was a happy VW driver that won't pay those prices when cars like the TSX exist.

cp3117

Actually the A4 CVT is about $2800 Cdn more and then you still dont get power seats or bluetooth. If you go with the quattro then you get all the comparable options but have aprox a $5000 added price tag because of the quattro, then you get the 10k difference.

I was facing the same dillema as you untill someone showed me a loaded Jetta 2.0T. This is why im surprised that you say it doesnt have enough luxury features, unless you where looking at a 2.5l .
If you look at the features, the loaded jetta actually has a lot more luxury features available compared to the TSX.
- 10 speakers compared to 8
- 12 way power and 3 memory seats compared to 8 way and 2 memory
- One touch power up/dn on ALL windows
- One touch sunroof
- One touch signals
- Aircond glovebox and console
- Headlight washers
- Auto door locks
- Auto sensing wipers
Etc... Etc... Etc...

If you look at navi options I like Acuras much better, but I chose non-navi...The only option the TSX has that mine doesnt is bluetooth, but I can purchase that for a few hundred aftermarket if I want.

All this was $2000 LESS than the TSX I was looking at. I know the TSX is an older design but I hope when they redesign it, they at least upgrade the car to where it should be for a sport/luxury car.

cp3117

Probably because there is no HUGE problem with the DSG.

There is going to be some quirks that have to be worked out of this new technology. In the end though you have to at least admire the VW/Audi group for teaming up with Borg Warner to develop and go ahead with this.

DSG has been the talk of the automotive world for the past year, with many manufactuers looking at doing the same thing...I cant think of many innovative things Honda/Acura have done lately, other then VTEC aprox 17 years ago.

mg7726

wow, the ignorance is strong in this one.

vidgamer

More speakers in no way means better! Whether or not it is in this specific case, I have no idea.

I suspect that Honda/Acura can do this, but that they feel as if it's a safety issue. I'm not sure if I agree, but someone might feel like it's not a problem but a feature.

....[/QUOTE]

As for the other things, I'm sure I should be missing them!

Someone posted that Acura might put the "SH" (Super Handling) technology into the whole line of cars.

And the iVTEC technology is an improvement on what was created 17 years ago (which was pretty innovative for a large production car).

I'm sure they've done a couple of other things during that time.

CarbonGray Earl

Ya, this guy has been quite insecure about his purchase. I would take his advice with a grain of salt.

He mentioned problems with tranny's however, that's LAST generation TLs - < 1% no less. It has nothing to with TSXs, but he wishes to flame on. whereas, the DSG problems are very current. shall we even mention the electronics problems, coilpacks, shift cable problems, power window motors, door lock problems, that VW "engineers" come up with?

In essense, he's trying to equate VWs on reliability with Hondas, when we all know that does fly. the google search as proof was hilarious. The Jetta is a good Mazda6speed competitor (both look pretty immature to me) but the TSX is easily a better cross section of Lux, performance, and sport - and it has great reliability AND longevity.

CarbonGray Earl

Why should we commend a product that, while good in theory, is only half baked in execution? You have to remember that Japanese manufacturers especially honda are better at production....a couple of TL trannies aren't going to disprove that. You should hold VW to a higher standard, it'd better for all of us if you VW fanboys did.

SH-AWD....Quit being a flame boy. only adds 120+ lbs, and will be in every acura eventually. Again, innovation should include the manufacturing and production process. DSG is great, but if you can't make it right, then its not that great.

cp3117

Yes i wouldnt take advice from an actual MKV owner. Im sure your advice as a non owner is much more inspiring.
The facts are there, VW ISN'T as reliable as Honda/Acura. I know that as a japanese car owner most of my life. I like to give people an honest opinon when they ask about the new reliability of VW though (1 small rattle in one year, thats pretty good). When i was here last year trying to make up my opinion, I was tired of people like yourself making VW/Audi sound like the first pot hole you hit the cars going to fall apart or posting random problem links when you can easily do the same for any car on the internet...Their not that bad or they wouldnt be in buisness.

Your comparison with the mazda6speed is another example...Its all there in black and white. Look up the both cars on the web site and compare. Im not making this stuff up about the luxury features etc. Im sure the many professional automotive reviews this last year putting the GLI ahead of the TSX was all fabricated too.

PS. the tranny problem wasnt just for the TL. As of 2004.. 1.14 million trannies where potentionally affected across Honda/Acura.

cp3117

This is very funny...You must remember VW is Audi's parent company. Acura shouldnt even be compared in reviews where a GLI is being reviewed better than a TSX let alone have more luxury features.



It appears your satisfied where Honda/Acura is right now. Im not...I like Acura and I think they have great potential or I wouldnt have come so close to buying one.
No V-8, V-10 or V-12....No crossline AWD....No 6-7 speed trannies....etc. These are things that they should of had years ago...not exactly innovative for some of those choices, but acura decides to ignore them and it could hurt them. (RL sales are proof of that)
They are trying to move upmarket, but they are the only luxury line without these choices (cadillac, lexus, infiniti, Bmw, Audi ...etc) they all have at least some of these choices but Acura doesnt. Untill they do they are not going to be respected in this market.....The facts are there, weather you decide to ignore them or manipulate them is your choice.

vitocorleone

Correct: VW's are only statistically unreliable in comparison to Hondas (and many other brands). Think of two bell curves that overlap - the one on the left peaks with more problems overall than the one on the right, but both have very lucky and very unlucky people. I suspect they are not perfectly formed nor equally formed, however....

As for being in business - well, if you can convince people that the brand is so cool that only "drivers" are wanted (in other words, make buying a car an emotional decision rather than logical), then glaring reliability problems become moot. Similar in some ways to BMW's "ultimate driving machine" approach - which, while true enough to not be a false statement, attempts to make it an emotional choice to shell out $10k+ for a comparably equipped car to its competition.

PS - many people on this board are tired of others trying to put their car down as well, so please respect others as you'd like to be respected

McGriddle

Vito is right on the mark. I think everyone is in agreement that generally Acura/Honda reliability is > VW/Audi reliability though you may have a different experience and be on either tail of a normal distribution.

As someone who traded in their 04 Navi TSX for an A3 2.0T, I think I can speak from personal experience (but YMMV). I've had warranty work performed on both cars. The TSX needed the headlight housings replaced (twice!) due to condensation. The A3 needed to have a misfire code fixed (replacement cylinder head!). My TSX had the annoying windshield creak on cold days and my driver's side door lock nub rattled while driving at speed. My A3 has a tiny rattle by the sunroof, but only when I hit bumps. To me, it's been all about the same in terms of reliability.

Regarding this debate between the A3 and the TSX: The TSX is a great buy. No doubt. No other manufacturer can match Acura for the amount of amenities you get for the price. That's why I bought one in the first place.

That said, some of the reasons for my switch to the A3 were due to the 2.0T FSI engine, which has tons more torque than the TSX's 2.4 and also for the DSG, which is arguably one of the most sophisticated and lightning-fast dual-clutch transmissions available to the public. The paint on my PWP TSX was horrible. There waere at least 20+ chips on my front bumper and other large chips along the A-pillars, the hood, and the doors. My old 2000 Jeep Wrangler had better looking paint after 4 years! My A3 still looks brand new without a single paint chip or scratch after the same length of ownership.

Did I pay a lot more for the Audi? Yes. Is it worth the extra $? It was worth it for me but it may not be for others.

Overall, I like both Audi and Acura and I can't wait for the next TSX update. Please give the TSX a turbo 4 with SH-AWD! ...some better paint dammit!

absolude

Yeah, and after all the hype is gone DSG is just another unrewarding so called improved auto transmission. It doesn't give better fuel economy, it shifts slower than a manual and it breaks.

Good thing VW is giving us innovation. Last one is going out the diesel market for not being able to produce a clean burning engine.

Remember we tried to search for problems. Try a google for "Honda reliability"and then "VW reliability".
In this case, the word reliable appears to have opposite meaning for the two brands.

All I know is everyone I know that owned or owns a VW will not get another one.
Just last week one of my friends traded in his Golf.

Anyway, enjoy your VW, and keep up the good work, some converts may pop up.