BRH

I also test drove the A3 DSG and loved it. For those of you who haven't driven one, the DSG has paddle shifters that override the AT at any time. LOTS of fun.

However, I went with the TSX and have never looked back. What made the decision for me was:

a) better overall value
b) although the A3 has been around in Europe, it's a new model the in the States, and I'm not comfortable with buying first year models.
c) my golf clubs wouldn't fit into the "trunk" (ie - cargo size was an issue)
d) Honda reliability

mr_luv

Wait and test Drive the 07 Subaru Legacy Spec B with 6SPD more bang for your buck AWD Turbo 3 tunable driving modes and very moddable if thats your thing.

CLsuperhero

If you buy an audi you better buy another audi for parts

Tmetcalf

I test drove the A3 when it first came out and I admit I was impressed by the engine, but after that I lost interest very quickly. First off the sales staff and whole test drive experience was awful. I will always remember it because the salesman had no clue what the cars features were and had any interest in trying to sell me the car. He might as well of been selling fruit and veg in a grocery store for the amount of enthusiam he had. I arrived on the dealership and wasn't asked or noticed by anyone for over 20 minutes. It was not a busy day, but there was another couple hanging around waiting for just as long. All this doesn't mean the car is bad but if Audi can't make a good first impression when you walk into their dealership is it worth dropping over 30K for a new car. In complete contrast I can walk on to the lot of an Acura dealership and I'm welcomed within seconds by a salesperson that wants to sell you a car and is very interested in showing you every car they have to offer, including the NSX. And on top of that I'm offered something to drink and 2 complimentary movie tickets just for dropping by. Now that shows quality and attention to detail that makes you feel ok about handing over 30K.

Apart from that the A3's interior was too small and I didn't like that you had to pay thru the roof for all the extras the TSX already has standard.

5o9

I picked the tsx.

For the record, in about 5 years you can't be a sport sedan without paddle shifters. Gonna be a minimum threshold.

You can't be in F-1 w/o paddle shifters; call them old ladies or asian debs...

Right now, bmw and lexus dont have it right. Audi/VW does. I hope to see it well done in a Honda soon

Everybody uses the paddles all the time. This is no auto trans. No triptronic joke. Audi/VW is the first to bring it to mass market right. Stability controll and dsg make you invincible, pick the best line an go for it!

I respect the hobbiasts puttering in their model t's and give them space. tsx is electronic marvel. We'll follow dsg, AND do it sporty and reliable.

bibby

For the record...the FIT Sports model has paddle shifter...so does the Acura CSX in Canada

jackacc

MikeMa

I was wondering about that too.... SOLD! I'm back to 99% for the TSX (1% if I can't get an acceptable deal....gotta always have an escape route!)!

MrChad

I'm not sure we should stop you the A3 is an awesome car, not to mention the room from the hatch. Both made the C&D 10 best list, the A3 on the list for a reason.

What a choice a TSX or an A3, you have some fine choices you'll love either...

stumarsyd

To bring some closure to this thread, I just bought a Carbon Gray TSX 6MT with Navi.

Tipping points:
1. Fitting golf clubs in the trunk
2. List of standard features that get a little ridiculous $$ on the A3
3. Established solid value and reputation for reliability
4. Did I mention fitting golf clubs in the trunk

If you haven't, go test drive a DSG. My bet is that it becomes the norm in future sports sedans. I probably will always want a stick, but my preference won't stop progress.

drigo

MSG>DSG

5o9

You know what to buy... Good choice!

xenonhid

BMW M3 has paddle shifters


BTW, my dream car once I my plan to make 10 million dollars succeeds

jpt

Paddle shifters mean dick. It's what they are connected to that matters.

The Fit & CSX paddle shifters are still connected to slushboxes -- just a slightly more gimmicky interface than the SS mode on the TSX's slushy. The M3, Toyota MR2, and several others have what are called "Sequential Manual Gearboxes" (a misnomer imo) meaning a conventional gearbox and clutch setup, but automatically operated by electronic/hydraulic actuators. They shift much slower than a human can. DSG is another automatic-clutch setup but because it has two clutches and gearboxes it can have the next gear preselected and feather the two clutches at once, resulting in very fast shifts. This is what people mean when they say that VAG "got it right" and everyone else has not yet.

Slushbox, SMG, or DSG, they are all still automatics in the English sense of the word -- the transmission is operated by a machine, not a person. This takes all the fun out of it for me no matter how well it works. I bought my car with an MT because it's fun, not because I want to race (if I had, I wouldn't be in the market for a four-door, four-cylinder car!)

Ronin317

They usually say the same words to me, but it's always "no, don't stop"

JPL530i

buy the A3! more fun to drive.

Warren803

so is Lamborghini....whats your point?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

But considering Lamborghini's shady reliability record in the past, being a "VW" is a step up...

littleorangeman

Because Volkswagen owns Audi I would take a pass. My VW has been in the shop 17 times in the past 36 months...which is also the first 36 months. It has spent more than a month's total time in the shop. Damn, I should get a month knocked off my principle for that! Due to poor customer service, a lemon of a car and shady salesmen my wife and I have vowed never to own anything VW again -- that includes Audi and Porsche. Its too bad because its a solid car. I understand the Audi may drive nice and appear to be a great car now, but when you are driving your loaner more than your car you will be wondering what you were thinking...

bradd

I just recently bought a 2006 TSX and joined this forum. I saw this thread and I was pretty set on buying an A4 and just wanted to see if anyone else had the same problem with Audi dealers I did. The local Audi dealer did not want to give me a price on an A4, we went around and around, I was there for 2 hours just to get a number. She wanted me wife to come in and look at it first, she said that the used car guy had to look at my trade. The used car guy looking at the trade is standard so I said go get him, then she messed around with other things and I finally had to force her to get the used car guy to look at my trade. Then the A4 I liked the best was new but had storm damage from recent thunderstorm, I figured I would get a better deal since one of the fenders would have to be repainted. After all this she quotes me list!
I tried to deal online with the next closest Audi dealer and they wouldn't give me a price either, they wanted me to come in and drive one. I told them I had already driven one, I just wanted to know how much before I went over there. They never did tell me.
So the only reason I hadn't looked at Acura before is the nearest dealer is 120 miles away. I looked at the TSX, went over and drove it, really liked it. The dealer was great, made me a nice deal on price. Only down side was I would have prefered NAV but they didn't have any in stock and none coming and it wasn't a deal killer, especially with the discount.
So I have the TSX, I love it, I am supper happy with it. And I can't belive Audi dealers try so hard to piss customers off!

littleorangeman

Word for word I have had the same exact experience...freaky. If I didn't know any better I'd wonder if you were my wife typing that! We're trying to get rid of the car before the warranty expires if anyone is interested...lol

warrusty

I own a DSG 2006 GLI and a 2006 TSX auto, so I'm probably the guy you want to talk to. My son owns a manual 2006 GLI. The VW engine and DSG are identical to the Audi 3, so some of what I've experienced with the GLI also apply to the A3.

The TSX is more comfortable, more luxo, and prettier inside than the TSX. Performance wise, the VW walks all over the TSX, especially DSG vs. auto Acura. Not even close, for acceleration and handling.

The GLI has a bigger trunk and appears to be extremely well built. The GLI is much easier to mod (my son just had his car chipped and it made the car into a monster).

Neither car rates very highly on the chubbie meter for exterior styling.

The real advantage to the TSX is slightly better gas mileage and the past history of poor reliability of the VW. However, the 06 GLI is not the same car as the old GLI, and so far my son and I have put a total of almost 15,000 miles on the GLI's without a problem. Since my leases end before the warranties do, I was willing to take the chance on th VWs.

The resale value of the TSX is probably much better. VW dealers are more willing to deal, so you'll proobably get a better discount on the VW.

And the TSX has a MUCH better air conditioner, although the VW is more than able to handle Central Florida summers. If you're not careful, you could end up a frozen stiff in the TSX!

warrusty

Typo's! Should read "The TSX is more comfortable, more luxo, and prettier inside than the GLI"

And Coco mats make the TSX accelerate and handle better.

Viper33182

Despite the fact that the originating poster has already made his decision, i'm seeing several misinformed posts and I think I can bring a fresh perspective....as a bit of background, I've worked off and on at a Porsche/Audi dealer in Baltimore...I've sold A3's and I've got a relatively decent amount of roadtime in them at this point...furthermore, my car prior to my TSX was a 2004 A4 1.8t quattro...my family's also had 6 Audi's over the years, 3 of them in the past 8 years...throughout this thread I'm seeing a lot of blasting of the reliability of the cars, which to an extent is a bit generalized. Yes, Japanese cars are generally more reliable than German cars...I'm not going to even begin to try and argue that point. However, the constant talk of "You'll need to buy a spare as a parts car," and "you'll be best friends with your service advisor" are I would argue VERY oversimplified. In the 2 years and 27,000 miles I had my A4, the car was perfect. Pristine. No issues whatsoever. The only time it spent in the shop was for routine maintenance or if I was getting an aftermarket mod/part put in. The past 3 A6's my father has had have also been perfect and have only spent time for routine maintenance. Is my family lucky? Maybe...am I speaking from a Biased perspective? Quite probably (and I'm sure many of you would argue most definitely). However, the fact is Audi quality has improved leaps and bounds over the past few years. I'm willing to bet that several of the former Audi owners who complained of their A4's had 2002 and 2003 model years. That was the first model year for the previous generation A4 here in the states...a time when quite frankly most of the kinks get worked out in a vehicle. Coming from an Audi forum that I still spend quite a bit of time on, I can tell you that there are plenty of Audi's out there that lead long and fruitful lives in the service of their owners, provided normal maintenance is performed. By normal maintenance I mean oil change every 3-5k miles, timing belt every 60k, the usual seals/filters etc. Nothing out of the ordinary. There may be an occasional issue from time to time, but certainly not at the frequency people on this forum seem to imply. I'm not saying by any means that the folks on this forum should go run out to buy Audi's, but at the same time I would argue that perhaps some of the generalizations that folks are making are a bit overzealous. Cars in this class can't be sold for the money that companies charge if the vehicle is downright unreliable. People simply won't buy them in the numbers that they do. I love my Acura and I would not hestitate to buy further Acuras down the road. I find it enjoyable to drive, sporty, an excellent value, and of course a main factor I considered was the Honda reliability. At the same time, I would absolutely consider buying another Audi. Would I buy the first model year of a model? Probably not. At the same time, my logic in that sense is not restricted simply to Audi. Every car company goes through kinks in the first model year (Acura not excepted...look at the new RL) All I hope people get from this post is hopefully a bit more open of a mind, and hopefully I can provide a bit of reason to the arguement...thanks for listening.

Ronin317

And that perspective is certainly valid. My problem is that it seems if there's one problem with a VW/Audi product, that it snowballs into 10. I know 5 people with new or recent (within 5 years) VW products, and 2 of them are constantly in the shop for warranty work. That doesn't work out well statistically. However, the 3 that haven't had any major problems love their cars, but are wary of keeping them past a warranty. I also know 4 people with Acuras...and 2 of them are driving 8 year old vehicles and have had them for 4 years, and they haven't had problem 1 besides normal maintenance and one bad water pump.

I guess my point is that yes, the discussion is biased towards acura, as it's an acura forum, and the audi reliability is taking more of a beating than it should. But I also know that I would not hesitate to purchase a new Audi if that was the car of desire. Used, I might think twice, might get a warranty. I liked the A3 and A4, but I decided it just wasn't there for the price - the TSX had a better value, despite it's performance being a bit less. The A3 was a tough decision too...but it also would have taken a month plus to get it in a color combo I wanted, and cost more.

Viper33182

yeah, i suppose I wrote a bit of a book :-)...all I was simply looking for was a bit more open mindedness, which you fortunately have posted the most of this entire thread...value? no question, the Acura's got the A3 beat hands down...lead time? sure i wouldn't wait a month later...the total lambasting that Audi got in this thread just kinda drove me to write something though, given my history and appreciation for the cars...it's worth mentioning that of all the German brands, Audi is actually rated the most reliable...while they are related to VW, it's simply of a Parent/Child nature...the cars are built in totally different parts of the world, and Audi's have tended to been more reliable...they've even been beating BMW and Mercedes in the most recent reliability ratings (though i'm not sure that's necessarily been tough to do w/ the addition of iDrive and other "features"). Anyway, without writing another book, thank's for simply opening your mind a bit and giving my post the read I hoped someone would. Cheers!

MadMac

i have a friend that owned an Audi A4 2000 model. In 2003 he had some electrical issues (his cruise control stopped working and ALL his lights in the car did not work). That same year he had to bring it back to the shop for transmission issues. He said everytime he started his car for the first time in the morning he would step on the gas and his transmission would not shift and finally it would and his whole car jolted. He was told dirty fuel injectors to bad transmission fluid to unknown. He said the following year 2004 he had to bring it back in for a bum alternator. Then he said power steering had a prob in 2004. Finally he sold the car and bought an Acura TL in 2005. He says he likes it a lot better than his old Audi.

VW? I knew a lot of guys and gals that owned them and dear lord, the stories they told me I vow NEVER EVER to look at them. They look really good today but I have heard so many stories from actual owners AND my local garage that I consider VW not a reliable car at all. I just don't understand why German cars are like this. They handle well but have horrible reliability.

joerockt

Good LORD, ever heard of a paragraph?

Zephrem

It happened to us as well -- devoted Honda owners, trying something different because the family vehicles Honda was offering at that time were bland. What a mistake. A VW Touareg (a "luxury" vehicle), which essentially fell apart in under a year, and a VW Passat that became unfixable 3 months out of warranty. Back to Honda.

Audi corporate has gone on a quality campaign over the last 2 years, but I know someone with an A3 that is having electrical issues. I agree with Salmoneous -- you can have the nicest/best service department in the world, but when you are inconvienced time and time again, and you stop trusting the vehicle, it can really kill the ownership experience. Also keep in mind that VW is famous for shorting the NA market on parts for first year models (first year to NA), so if your car breaks it could be in the shop for weeks (not kidding, let's talk about the Touareg stepper motor issues).

Zephrem

Except for the premature failure of 1.8T timing belts, resulting in a class action. And the oil sludge issues (including the 2004 A4 -- with an engine that had been in service for what, 8 years). While I'm sure that there are Audis out on the road with hundreds of thousands of miles, it is about statistics. The jury is out on how the new engines will last and what problems may arise with them. If an Audi is in your garage, you are (and I would say substantially) more likely to have a vehicle that will have problems than if you would have purchased an Acura.

littleorangeman

youngTL

With those transmissions, you still don't have the same control as with a clutch and shifter set up. If I want to chirp my tires, or arbitrarily pop into any gear I feel like being in, including neutral, I can do it. I would rather downshift from 6th to 4th with the clutch and shifter rather than tapping some paddle twice

MT engages the driver in a way no other transmission can.

waTSX

dom

Thats the only thing that interests me in a VW/Audi.

The old 1.8 could be chipped to 240/260 and somehow get better MPG.

What is a chipped 2.0 pushing?

Viper33182

don't recall tq offhand but it's gobs...chipped 1.8t's were 210hp/240tq.

coloradotsx

This just might be my next car.

Lexus IS250.......... look at it................. it might just change you mind about the Audi.

vwong

A chipped 2.0T will push 232hp/273lb-ft on 91 octane, or 241hp/292lb-ft on 93 octane. Here is the link, http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/e...rade_b7a4.html.

The 1.8T is a little less. http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/e...e_8ea418t.html

Viper33182

I did look at the IS250...I like it a lot, though it's a lot of money for the car imho...partly why I ended up with the Acura...just to Clarify, i'm not trying to persuede folks that Audi reliability is top tier and at the same level as Acura...i'm just trying to filter out some of the negativity and bias that was shown in this thread

bradykp

bias? i dont really call it bias. i admire audis and would love to own one someday if/when they ever straighten out some quality issues.

on that same note, conversation at lunch today with a coworker about her bmw x3....which she had to drop off to get the ac compressor fixed at 750 mile mark.....anyways, another person at the table had a bmw 330 that he leased for 2 years and said he was in for service about 6 times per year and had the same problem, but more mileage on his car.

there's a reason these companies have the reputations and people have the opinions/prejudices they do.


many owners still love the cars cause they are great engines, and deal with the service. some lucky owners aren't effected by the defects at all.

Viper33182

and even above most American and other European car makers...the Japanese are unquestionably top as far as reliability is concerned...but Audi isn't THAT far behind...while people may know people who've had problems, i'd say 4 out of 5 people I know w/ Audis have had no issues...now maybe it's because they don't keep them much past warrenty and trade the cars in every few years, but I mentioned bias here because of blatant negativity towards carmakers other than the Japanese...we know that the Japanese carmakers are at the top...that doesn't make the other cars bad cars...that's all i'm sayin...and with the negativity i've seen in this thread, that makes folks on this forum no worse than the comments on the Audizine thread in another recent post here...