Bigtimebooch

Hey Guys,

I was involved in a very minor rear ender. An SUV ran into me at a stop light. He wasn't going very fast and the damage is minimal. All of the damage is located on the rear bumper. There are two scratches about a half inch long that go deep into the plastic on the bumper. A few more scratches here and there along with a nice faint imprint of a license plate, along with its two mounting bolts.

When we pulled over to exchange info he kept asking if I was going to report it to insurance and if I thought it needed to be repainted. I made no commitment either way. He "claimed" he didn't have his insurance info on him
I did get all of his info from his driver's license, his phone number, and license plate number.

Long story short, I have filed a claim. The car was very dirty when I took it in for an estimate and the damage was tough to see...I would post pictures, but it really is pretty minimal. The insurance guy who made the estimate said they would be repairing the bumper (NOT replacing). First off, is that even possible given that there are clear indentations in the bumper? I was under the impression it just needs to be replaced if you get anything more than a superficial scratch since it's plastic.

Second, because I don't have the other guy's insurance info and he wont talk to my insurance company, I have to pay the deductible. I was informed that only AFTER the claim has been fulfilled (meaning someone owes someone money), my insurance company will send it to a collection agency. At this point, all they will do is call him directly with the number I gave and kindly ask for his insurance info...surprise, surprise, he hasn't called them back. The initial estimate is only a few dollars over my deductible and I find it hard to believe the collection agency will fight very hard to get back a few bucks and get the other company to pay my deductible (which is what would happen if I actually had his insurance info).

Given that, is not giving out your insurance info all it takes to get out of an accident? What was I supposed to do? Tell the guy he's a big liar and search his car myself?

Do you think I will ever get my deductible back if it goes to a collection agency, given the fairly large amount of info they have on this guy?

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Call the police and file a claim. Since the guy was without his insurance information, he was technically driving illegally as you are required to have your insurance information at all times while operating the vehicle. Explain the situation to the police. I'm sure that if he got a call from a police officer, he would be forced to cough up his insurance information.

rb1

Yes, you need to report this to the police and get a police report.

Depending on what state you are in, they may very well have the insurance information on file, but I don't think they'll hand it right over to you without talking to the other driver first.

SeanS627

not much a cop can do being the situation was not handled at the time of the incident

being that the OP swapped info and didn't get his insurance info was the OPs own fault

and to the OP..............

if the guy was giving you the run around about the car insurance you should have called the police out there at that time and had a report written to record the fact that the guy was at fault.

now your stuck in a he said, you said situation and you had your insurance company do the estimate and start the process of repairs, which was another big NO NO. the driver at fault's company needs to do that or at least give your company the OK before you go any further.

at this time your out your deductible and look at this as a lesson learned because it'll be a hard pressed thing to recoup any of your losses

lilvinnyb

Yup!

I would have called the fuzz.

Bigtimebooch

First off, I have not initiated any repairs as of yet. No money is out of my pocket. My insurance company had me come in for an estimate. I was supposed to have the car repaired the same day, but at that point they told me they didn't have the other guys insurance info and I would have to pay the deductible. It would have been nice to tell me that before I scheduled the thing, but oh well. I just left and called and didn't get any repairs.

It was my own fault due to lack of knowledge into how this system works for not contacting the police immediately. The guy was not being rude or anything and it really could have been an honest mistake...at this point I really doubt that. Also, I was dealing with info from a friend who claimed that if nobody was hurt, the police wont show...clearly my own misconceptions have played a part here....

Nogard13

OP, what insurance agency do you have? That's very important, as I'll state in a minute.

You should ALWAYS call the police just to cover your arse. That way, the cops can determine fault and they will ensure that all the appropriate documentation is provided in their police report, which can then be used by your insurance company to pay for the damages.

Now, the reason I asked what insurance company you have is because I've had two accidents, both minor, and both where the other party was at fault. I reported them to my insurance company, USAA, and they handled EVERYTHING.

My second accident was some kid in an SUV that didn't even have a driver's license (he had a permit and his buddy had the license, but the buddy wasn't driving). The kid put the car in reverse and backed into me at a light (after a chinese fire drill) and left a huge hole in my front bumper (from his trailer hitch). I got all his info but since the accident happened in a mall parking lot, the cops claimed that they didn't have jurisdiction on private property lots.

I called his insurance the next day, to report it, and they told me that the car had his father as the insured driver, but the kid was not on the policy so they were sorry to tell me that they couldn't do anything. I called USAA and they asked me to fax them the estimate I already had from that morning and that they would send me a check for that amount and THEY would deal with the other insurance company (State Farm) and get the money from them. I didn't have a deductible or anything, they just paid me the exact amount of the estimate and I never heard from them again (and my rate actually went down the following period, lol).

Bigtimebooch

This is what I assumed the insurance company would have access to...it seemed that when I had everything short of his mother's maiden name, SS and insurance info (duh), it wouldn't be tough to figure out...apparently not.

Bigtimebooch

GEICO.

Yeah, I guess I assumed my insurance company would do a bit more to figure things out other than just call him and ask him really really nicely.

SeanS627

the way you were talking about collection agencies in your first post made it look like you had already turned over the deductible and they were sending the remaining balance to a collection agency against the other driver

the cops have to come, but they will try to not write up a report because they see it as your friend does no injury no worries and not to mention the report takes a while to do, so some cops are lazy and don't want to do it

just take my recent hit & run for example:

my wife went to the store and her car was hit in the parking lot while she was inside. she called the police and the cop tried to talk her out of doing a report because it takes a while to write. i told him to do it because if it didn't get done and the store's surveillance cameras can see the vehicle that hit my TSX i'd be SOL because i had no report.(cameras saw nothing so i'm going to have to pay for it myself)

in your case you have the party there so having a report is your leverage, but you lost that opportunity and calling the police now could actually open yourself up for charges(i.e.- leaving the scene of an accident) and most cops wouldn't pursue that charge, but they can under the letter of the law

my best advice is to keep on your insurance company and try to get it settled, but if not you taken this as a lesson learned and move on and don't take my comments as hate, just trying to educate

Bigtimebooch

Okay, here's my crappy plan for now:

1. Call police, see if they can do anything about this...I doubt they can but who knows.

2. Call the guy myself and ask what the hell his problem is? Would this be asking for trouble considering the next step?

3. Small claims court? Given that I have no real proof of fault other than a perfectly placed license plate imprint in my bumper and a bunch of his personal info, would I even have a chance? My knowledge of small claims court is on par with my knowledge of the insurance system.

4. Open my wallet and bend over.

RGlesing

It is TOTALLY dependent on your insurance company's attitude toward these difficult situations (difficult, but not uncommon.) Some companies will go the extra mile, or two, to help you through it at minimal cost and trouble. Others will shove you out the door with a "laurel, and hardy handshake" and good luck to you bub! Some of these things you learn the hard way. Oh, and you definitely should have called the cops when he refused to give insurance. That is a violation of the law in most states, and while it can be tough to get a cop to respond to a minor accident, you would at least be on their records for having reported the situation.

Bigtimebooch

No worries, sorry if that second post came off with a little 'tude.

Definitely a learning experience....

Here was my orginal thinking:

"Oh well, I have enough info here that my insurance company can figure out who his insurance company is"

Then after a week or two of them saying they have tried calling and he didn't call them back, one of the insurance reps calls me and more or less asks what I am doing with my car. I reply that I am waiting for them to figure out who his insurance company is and then they explain that they can't do anything more than try and call him until I actually go through with the claim (pay my own deductible and get it fixed through the claim). Also something that would have been nice to have known from the get-go.

Bigtimebooch

To update my crappy plan:

1. bend over and open wallet

fish008

While I was in college I had a similar situation happen to me while I was parallel parked on the street with my Integra GSR. There was a guy with a PT Cruiser parked in front of me with a bike rack on his car and as he was getting out of the spot he backed into me and actually pushed my car a couple of inches. Lucky a buddy of mine was waiting to get into the spot that the guy was leaving, all the while watching this guy carelessly back his car into mine. Guy leaves the scene with “no idea” he even hit my car, again luckily my buddy got his plate number. Minimal damage, called the cops, got the guy back there, made a report, blah blah blah. There was minimal damage but being so anal about my car I just wanted it perfect. Thought about it for a couple of days and the only damage that was visible took bending down to see it, so I didn’t fix it. Oh yea, Michigan is “no fault insurance” if you don’t know what that is, it is a disaster, especially for little claims like this. So my advice BIGTIMEBOOCH is to think it over and see if it is really worth while to spend that extra money and potential increased insurance for something that isn’t ever that visible. If it bugs you fix it, if you can live with it for the price of the deductible leave it alone. It’s hard to say how I be react to someone hitting my TL now, but just the same, think it over.

clee109

The guy "forgot his insurance info" = I don't have insurance, please don't call the police I'm scared. In other words you're screwed on that end, the only thing that may save you is if you clicked a picture of his lisence plate and then the cops can run a scan and maybe help you out. Then you have to battle the insurance company. Otherwise take it as a lesson learned and don't report it to the insurance company because they'll raise your rates and you'll pay for a bumper repaint for 3 years or more. So pay it out of pocket, it will be more at first but you're so much better off to pay it quickly than pay more than it's worth with the insurance over 3+ years. Experience talking here lol

SeanS627

you don't have to do a damn thing it's your car and the damage is not against the law, so you can leave it as is until the situation is resolved in your eyes

tell them you WILL NOT be paying a deductible because you were not at fault, they need to contact the other driver about the $$ if they want to get any

you pay them for their service and if they are trying to control the situation they are screwing you over, typical insurance agency run arounds

SeanS627

exactly what i'm going to do with my TSX, going to have to take the hit myself and Bigtimebooch if you can't get the cops to track anything down with the plate and taking that the cost of repairs is a couple dollars over the deductible pay for the whole thing yourself and keep your insurance company out of it because like clee said your rates will rise and you'll pay a lot more down the road

PJS

Aside from the illegality of driving w/o insurance docs, you have sufficient info to proceed with a civil suit to recover the costs you incur on fixing the bumper to it's original condition.
Insurers will want to only pay out the least amount they can - so if a repair is enough to rectify the situation, then that's all you can expect.
Assuming there's no hidden damage, and as you've no legal obligation (I hope) to reveal the car has had a repair done on the bumper when you sell it, then you shouldn't incur any devaluation loses.
Get at least 3 separate quotes for repair - forget going through the insurance, and give the offender the quotes and any other pay out you will incur (car hire for the day or whatever, if not provided by the bodyshop by way of courtesy).
Give him 7-14 days to agree to quotes and cut you a cheque or contact whichever garage you're going with, to send him the invoice.

There's no harm in reporting to the police, even if just for a crime number, that way you've done all you need to should you have to go down the legal avenue.

04rob

Do not file a claim with your insurance company unless you are willing to eat the deductable and possibly a future rate hike.

Call the guy who hit you and nicely ask if he'll pay for you to get it fixed. Send him an estimate, and have him send you the money. If he is unwilling to do this, suggest that you'll have to get the police involved and/or file a claim in small claims court.

This is all if Geico is unwilling to help you out more with getting money from his insurance company (assuming he has one). I had a hit and run accident where all I had was the license plate number, and Geico tracked the driver down, tracked down his insurance, and got it payed for.

S14 n Tsx

screw his ass over.

cestmoi

this is precisely why i love the canadian car insurance system where there is only one insurer - sure they have monopoly, but if you are involved in an accident that is clearly not your fault (ie. someone rear ended you) and that you don't have any witnesses, the problem is all taken care of for you.

no worries about getting his/her insurance. no worries about not getting your money for repairs as the insurance company will pay whatever the cost is after assessing the damage and giving an estimate of the repair costs.

Tsx6363

lesson learned, ALWAYS get their insurance information and call the police, also when you're done rmemeber to write down the cop's badge number incase anything happens to the report... my dad filed a report and they lost it, but we didn't have the cop's badge number.. so he paid out of his own pocket

Bigtimebooch

Hmmm I think I'll be calling GEICO again.

The back of my insurance "card" (a piece of paper the size of a business card really...why can't they give us a real card these days!?) states:

"WHAT TO DO AT TIME OF ACCIDENT

1. Do not admit responsibility and make no statement regarding the accident except to the police or our claims representative.
2. Do not reveal the amount or limits of your liability coverage to anyone.
3. Obtain names, addresses, phone numbers and driver's license numbers of all vehicle occupants, as well as the state and license plate number, year, make and model of involved vehicles.
4. Obtain names, addresses and phone numbers of all witnesses.
5. Report all accidents promptly by calling GEICO's toll-free number -- 1-800-841-300 or by visiting geico.com"

Lets break this down shall we?

1. Well its not like I would admit guilt when I was stopped...hell, they guys first words were "sorry."
2. Done.
3. Got everything but the year of his car.
4. No witnesses.
5. Filed the claim the day of the accident.

So when their own stupid card makes no mention of obtaining the other driver's insurance info I cry foul. Clearly there is some sort of database they can access to see if the guy is insured and I can't be the first person to not obtain the other driver's insurance info. Sounds like they're trying to take the quick and easy way out of this rather than doing their job.

My gut tells me the guy has no insurance so I truly will be SOL. Then again the car wasn't exactly a rust bucket and he had a young child. Seems incredibly irresponsible to not have insurance when you have a kid in the car as well.

I'm close to eating the deductible myself out of spite.

tcwatkins

Sorry but there's nothing magical about him having insurance. Either he is at fault or he's not. If he is at fault he has to pay. If he isn't, he doesn't. Insurance doesn't change that.

What it does change is how matters are handled. Insurance has a legal obligation to defend the claim on behalf of the insured. They just can't sit there with their checkbook and watch the insured get sued and defend himself on his own dime. So what happens is that insurance companies avoid the legal expense by going ahead and paying a claim of a grand rather than hiring a lawyer to defend for 5 grand.

Insurance companies want you to exchange insurance info so they can deal company to company. Insurance companies will settle between themselves and bare their own insured's cost rather than assign fault sometimes because it's cheaper than lawyers.

So if you sue him he'll probably bring in his insurance company. (Smaill claims court may be a good option.) But don't let the guy just pay you the cost of the dectable because the insurance company is entitled to the first dime collect up to the amount they paid out. YOu get anything above that.

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

I'm in the EXACT same situation as you right now. I got rear ended by an uninsured motorist also.

I got his plate number, DL number, phone number, address, and even took photos at the scene. But the guy who rear ended me is hard to get in touch with cuz the address on his driver's license was a private mailbox.

As of now, I'm paying the deductable until they're able to find the guy. The uninsured guy didn't respond to the letter my insurance company sent him so they ordered a license check from the DMV. The uninsured driver will no longer be responsible for the damages though; the registered owner of the vehicle will now be responsible for the cost of all the damages.

All you can do is go down to the police station and file a report yourself. That way you can have at least something in writing. I had to write the report myself following some example they had.

The cops won't do anything to him unless they were at the scene. They will only go after him only if it was a Hit-and-Run because that's a felony. But since you he pulled over and gave you his information, the cops can't really do much. well that's how it was for me.

Best of luck to you.

nj2pa2nc

a few years ago we were in the same situation as you, in fact the person took off after getting limited information. our insurance company paid for our repair-our deductible. the told us if they could collect it from this person they would reimburse us. we thought we would never see that but 6 months later we did get it. our insurance company did not give up on us. In pa unless you can not drive your car and there is no injuries the state troopers do not want to be called to come to minor accidents.

Rees901

similar thing happened to me last year. got bumped from behind.. a few deep scratches, no dents. the bodyshop repaired and repainted the bumper without replacing. not sure how they did it but looked brand new when it was done. the cost was 400-500. luckily the person that hit me wasnt a deadbeat like the guy youre dealing with. we called the cops at the time, but they didnt come- said to file report later since minimal damage. so, you should still be good to file a report. i would then politely leave a message on this guy's answering machine letting him know that youve filed a report and will be letting him know the estimated cost of repairs soon. if you get no response to that, i would contact a lawyer. i'm definitely not one to sue for no reason, but when someone else is clearly at fault and being uncooperative, they are wasting your time, energy, and money.

slickrab

exactly what I was gonna say! Contact him and see if you can still get his insurance info or else it seems as the damage is not worth the deductible your gonna pay through your insurance. get his insurance info and claim through his insurance.

dom

This thread is almost a year old.

I wonder how it turned out for booch.

Bigtimebooch

Wow this takes me back. Here's what has happened since:

So my insurance company contacted him, he originally claimed it was his fault and that he had insurance and would pay up...then he stopped answering the calls. At this point I just ate the deductible and got the thing fixed. Eventually (weeks later) they contact him again and he said that he would pay, he just didn't want it on his insurance. Since the damage was minimal (~$600) insurance actually said it was okay to keep it off of his insurance assuming he could cough up a check. Well, thats when he started asking for a payment plan. Luckily my insurance company wasn't going to start a payment plan on a $600 bill, so they told him he had 30 days to get them a check or it was off to collections. 30 days came and went and I never heard from the insurance company or him. Finally, about 3-4 months after the whole thing started was able to get an insurance rep that could figure out what happened. I explained the story and asked that I should have my deductible knocked down to $100 for uninsured motorist coverage. The rep agreed and said that based on my description of the events, the claim should have been set up this way in the first place and I never should have had to pay the $500 dollar deductible. A few days later, I get a check for $400 bucks and I am somewhat satisfied. My rates have actually gone down since then. I now have the "non-emergency" police phone number in my cell phone. Sadly a few weeks after the repairs some idiot gives my bumper a love tap when parking and knocks a small chip of paint right out of the center of the bumper. No good deed goes unpunished.

The bottom line is I should have called the cops to get a police report, however since he didn't have insurance I still would have had to pay $100 bucks for a deductible. All in all, it worked out, but by not calling the cops I left the other guy in a position to argue. Luckily he did not...keeping in mind there was no damage to his SUV and it can be hard to prove it wasn't your fault when you rear end someone. That and its not like he was the most intelligent person in the world....

TS_eXpeed

No, you call the police there on site, and tell him this tool is

1) Driving without automotive insurance, and
2) Refusing to give you any information he does know about it


I wouldn't have let his sorry ass leave the scene until I got some kind of police report.

Prototype

best thing to do if he doesn't want to provide insurance info is to file a police report on the spot.

Some advice, if ever in an accident do 3 things on the spot, in this specific order.

- call the police department and get a black and white on the scene for a police report
- if you not at fault, get on phone with the idiot's insurance company and file a claim right then and there
- call your insurance company, file a claim and make the idiot provide a statement to your insurance company (you technically don't have to report an accident your not responsible for to your insurance company)

inazuma

Based on my experience, you have to call the police at the time of the accident. 4 out of 5 people who try to be "nice guys" and let a guy pay directly instead of contacting the police and insurance companies will get screwed over because a guy who isn't willing to face up to a small insurance claim for a minor accident he caused (which shouldn't be more than once in 10-15 years on average for a decent driver) isn't likely to be a stand up guy when its time to pay any amount of money. Anyone who's had a bumper done knows it can be over $1K and the guy who can't stomach going through his insurance company for a minor issue isn't going to want to cough up any money at all.