larchmont

I've seen how most people here seem able to get all enthusiastic about the new TL, get all worked up wondering about all kinds of details, and even be totally ready to buy it -- without knowing whether it will be A4 size or A6 size or somewhere in between.

And that's the range of what we're hearing. Colin, who knows a thing or two, has said that common sense says it'll be about 189". But we've heard bigger -- up to 191" -- as well as substantially smaller. DNB did some careful calculations, based on the Seattle pics, and came up with 180. Acura Driver did his own calculations and came up with 185.

It seems to me that the size factor, far more than any other single factor, determines the nature of the car. Wouldn't we be talking about very different kinds of cars if it was 180" or 185" or 190"? You can think A4 vs. A6, or 3-series vs. 5-series, or, if you wish, Corolla vs. Avalon.

So, how is it that you can get so hot-to-trot before you know this?

Some have said they feel the level of the discussion on the board has come down since the TL stuff took over. I wouldn't say that. But it has seemed to me that most of the TL discussion has focused on details that are almost irrelevant until you know the basic nature of the car.

kenbiddulph

Speculation without substantiated facts can bring down any board, no matter what its reputation is. On one of the TL boards people were cussing each other out on whether if the TL was ugly or not and of course both sides had "proof" to back it up. Its silly but when a car is meant to be different, it polarizes people. Some hate it, some love it and both are very vocal about. Such is life.

SPUDMTN

Hello-

I guess the size doesn't matter too much because there's really no reason why the car will be substantially smaller than the current TL. I also think that the exterior dimensions aren't going to place the TL into a new segment--it would be the interior dimensions.

Does the exterior size really matter a whole lot? Car makers are notorious for shrinking the exterior of a vehicle and actually increasing the interior space. What's with the fuss over exterior dimensions--I mean, really...what's an inch or two? Am I the only one who values interior size over exterior size?

I'm expecting a larger interior--as for the exterior, I'd guess that it's shorter, since this car is so close to its concept.


SPUDMTN

larchmont

SPUD, who also knows a thing or two, is making some big assumptions.

He's also competely discounting DNB and AD's calculations.

SPUDMTN

I admit--I have absolutely no facts, whatsoever. But I really take the calculations here as a grain of salt--no one has any idea at all.


SPUDMTN

Iceman

IMO the TSX's target car was the A4. I expect the new TL to be the same size as the A6.

larchmont

Looks like Iceman doesn't have much confidence in DNB and AD's math!

SPUDMTN

I think I'm leaning toward this idea.

That, or Acura will create a niche in between the compact and midsize luxury cars. I think this might actually be the way to go.

If Acura has made this new TL to be the same size of the A6/5-series/E-class, where will that put the RL? Lexus LS territory (purely size wise)? I see an RL the size of an LS feasible, considering the LS isn't quite as big as the other fullsize/premium luxury cars.

Again, just another factless post...but logical enough, right?


SPUDMTN

larchmont

You see, all we can do is guess. And that's my point -- we really don't know, and the range of possibilities is pretty wide.

I'm not asking to be told what the size will be -- I know that's unknown.
Just wondering how people can be so enthusiastic WITHOUT knowing the size, and thus without knowing the basic nature of the car.

Looks like maybe it's that everyone thinks they do know the basic nature of the car, because they're making assumptions about size.

But different people's assumptions on this are different.
If DNB and AD's calculations are accurate, most people's ideas will be quite wrong.

finalheaven

Hell, if i was out of college, married, or had a career type job, i would get the TL even before i knew the dimensions. I guess all i would know is that it is more powerful then the TSX, will fit me in the future better, will be bigger then TSX, with acura reliability and TSX like characterisics. That is if i was an Acura fanatic which a lot of people who already love the TL are.

This is assuming if im like 7-10 years older though.

SPUDMTN

I'm curious as to what DNB and AD's assumptions were before they "calculated"--however they did calculate. By looks alone, what would everyone here assume?

I'm sorry, but those calculations seem far too fuzzy for my liking. If both of them came within an inch or half, it might make more sense to buy into those calculations, but for now, I feel safer assuming SHEESH--180" is more than a foot shorter than the current TL!

Thanks, however, DNB and AD for your calculations--it's something for us to all feed off of My vote, though is going for 189"+.


SPUDMTN

BTW--Time to go to bed...I hate how this forum becomes a habit--or more like an addiction. I still need to read a few books for school

larchmont

Great answer, and probably reflects what a lot of other people think.

But -- if it's anywhere near the size of the current TL, it's hard to see that it would have "TSX-like characteristics." The current TL doesn't.

Even a 189" car would probably be hard-pressed to feel as sporty as TSX, or close to it.

SPUDMTN

Well, all the car magazines seem to think the 5-series is the ultimate driving machine, and it's 188" (close enough, right? ) Length does not have to hinder a vehicle's sportiness/performance...if done right, Acura could have made the TL larger in all ways and handle even better than a TSX.


SPUDMTN

PS--Stop posting, larch, I really need to go to bed!!

larchmont

Hey, it didn't screw up your ACT's, did it? But maybe I will anyway.

SPUDMTN

Nope...sure didn't...one of the questions actually was...

Which of the following is superior?

A.) Acura TSX
B.) BMW 325i
C.) Audi A4 1.8T
D.) Saab 9-3

Of course, I got the answer right when I chose letter "A"!

I did well on my ACTs--I got an 88 overall on my first try--with no studying! WOO HOO!


SPUDMTN

This is good night...I mean it...seriously

wiz

Well, I think that Acura should target the size of the cars like so:

The TSX should be in line with the A4 and the BMW 3 series.

The TL should be in line with the A6 and the BMW 5 series.

The RL should be in line with the A8 and the BMW 7 series.

I think if they did this, that would help them better split their cars up so that they are not closely resembled with each other, but with other cars in their class. The only thing is, the TL in those pictures looks like a TSX. From a picture, I can't tell if it's going to be any bigger or not, but I'd assume that it would be. We shall see though.

Accord Euro-R

The new TL does look a lot like the TSX. And expect the RL to look a lot like the new TL as well. That's just a tendency that luxury car makers are following... that's called Brand Identity... Marketing 101, guys... For instance, take the A, the C, the E, and the S-classes from Mercedes. They all look very alike. The same happens with Audi, Volvo, Saab, BMW, etc..
The TSX definitely competes with the A4 in size.
The new TL will measure closely to 189", based on info from Honda of America, which is about the size of the 5-series from BMW.
The next-generation RL will grow to 200" from 196" of the current generation to better compete with A8 and co.

soopa

because most of us dont have children or part time jobs as a chauffer

fdl

According to this email I just got, 90% of women care about size. hmmm.

soopa

oh?

1SICKLEX

Well, the 2nd generation GS 300/400 is 5 inches shorter than the 1st gen, but has a bigger trunk and larger inside (194 inch to 189). The shortned the car to resemble the 5/E class competition, and they were selling it overseas and big cars are not big sellers there.

The 95-99? Accord (2 generations back) was shorter then the 1990-94 version but bigger in the inside.

Bigger is not better a lot of times. So I am sure the inside is just as big as the previous model and I PREDICT this TL may be sold overseas as the Legend alongside the TSX as the Accord.

Colin

Well, I think it's obvious. Most people (except you ) do not make their buying decisions based only on the overall length. Most of the clients I've sold cars to NEVER ask the exact length of the car they are buying. They just want to know its relative size to the car they are currently driving. Ultimately, people don't care that much as long as the car suits their general expectations. (for example, I had to look up the overall length of our S2000s, I never memorized it cause it's irrelevant to my enjoyment of the car)

larchmont

Interesting answers.
But I wonder if many of you might be missing something; and, depending on what the TL actually turns out to be, it may hit you over the heads.

For example: If it's on the larger side in the possible range, it might well be a lot less sporty and less nimble than you assume.

If it's on the smaller side in that range, it would probably be less comfortable of a ride, and....well, smaller. Plus -- and this is the main thing -- it would be a very different kind of car, one that probably would cater to a very different segment than the larger car would -- not simply because of the difference in size, but because of the difference in the nature of the car.

Bottom line: I guess few of you agree that size is the single most important variable in determining the nature of the car.

But then, consider this: So many factoids on the TL have "leaked out" -- meaning that Honda/Acura has wanted them leaked out. Why haven't they leaked out something as simple as the dimensions? I don't know, but -- they're famous for keeping secrets and surprises until almost the final minute. I don't mean that I think they're going to surprise us with unexpected dimensions; I'm just suggesting this might reflect that they agree with what I'm saying about the significance of dimensions -- and so they're holding back on the one area of facts that most determines the nature of the car.

SPUDMTN

Boy, larch, you like numbers, don't you? What are a couple of inches? Seriously?! A few inches won't make much of a difference if you ask me. As for sportiness, I can safely say (yes--just an assumption) that the new TL will be better (performance wise) than the current one. The reason for an entirely new model is to improve. Acura has also started a new game, so to speak--performance oriented machines.

As for size being the most important factor in determining the nature of the car-- Come on now--I think that power, features, and price play a far more important role than just a couple of inches. When was the last time an auto maker DRASTICALLY changed the size of a successful vehicle--so much so that it changed the model's competitors?


SPUDMTN

larchmont

The point is that we're talking about possible differences of a lot more than a couple of inches.

The viable estimates floating around vary from 180 to 191. OK, the 180 figure came from one person, so maybe that doesn't count -- but remember, that was someone who usually knows what he's doing, and did some very careful work to get that figure, so we shouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. But even if you throw that out, you've got 185 to 191. Those are still very different kinds of cars.

SPUDMTN

I guess, in the end, I just have to agree to disagree.


SPUDMTN

justinjsw

Dude...people were just as excited about the TSX BEFORE any official specs hit the public. The car will not be 180" nor 185". People that are looking at the TL already know its not going to be as nimble as the beloved TSX. What they are getting is a touring car. Its about the size of the Accord give or take an inch.

justinjsw

Dude get some rest.

larchmont

Fact or guess???

Colin

No you're talking about the large range! 180 is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone who sells these things (Justin, Kurt, myself etc) is within 2-3 inches. I'd be totally shocked if it was less than 188 (MDX length) and I fully expect 190.

Colin

It's common sense! Go to sleep, you're tired!

larchmont

Not everyone. The dealer where I got my previous car ('03) thinks it's going to be bigger than the current TL.

We're all over the map.

Colin

I meant everyone here....:P We're the lunatic fringe of car sales consulants. We acually care enough about product to spend time here with you................... Your dealer probably sensed you don't want a large TL and told you want you wanted to hear so you'd "buy now" on the current model.... Larch you know better than that! In general, if dealers can't sell it now, they don't care...........

Booyah

It would be nice to put up some Picts of yourselves so we can put faces to the names on this board!! Just an idea? I have no way of doing it but Im sure most of you do!

I sure hope its a little bigger than the accord! Im thinking about the size of a 5-series

larchmont

(Posting in my sleep.......)

That's completely wrong what you say about the dealer (for sure).
Of course that doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about; I don't think he does either.

But it does show that when you, or anyone, says "probably," like you did up there, it doesn't mean much ...... because we don't really know.

Colin

This is why I don't understand why you keep asking? You're fixated on size (are you sure you're not a female... ) , Emu is fixated on ventalated seats, and foryouryu wants a mini disc player. The press embargo is up on Sept 1st. We'll have our answers then.

1SICKLEX

If u want a large car for cheap buy a Ford Crown Victoria.

larchmont

No -- I stopped asking what is the size a long time ago.

I'm asking why the size doesn't seem to matter to people. And the answer seems to be that people are assuming they pretty much KNOW the size and what the nature of the car will be. We'll see if y'all are right.

Colin

HaHa your're correct. You changed the directon of the questions to "hide" your true intentions............... it was just a ruse to find another way to ask how big the car will be. :P

Of course I'm right about the general size and nature of the car! I'm always right when it comes to Acura cars!

LeMasseHammer

This thread is beginning to resemble another vintage Larch thread from the dark side.

Larch pushing and prodding over a vague question, regarding a completely subjective concept, or with unrevealed or non-existent data, but in which he has great interest (or too much free time), all the while, trying to understand why we don't just agree with him, aka

Size does matter, but it's how you use it that matters most