PatrickB

Well, after many hours of looking and debating what to do, I finally pulled the trigger. I sold my '04 TSX to my father for 14K and bought an '08 Toyota Highlander Sport. I know they are totally different vehicles, but the new family just wouldn't make it in the TSX. Overall I am really happy with the purchase. I gave up HID's and gas mileage, but got Bluetooth, backup cam, rear DVD, tri-zone auto HVAC, 3 rows of seats, plenty of leg room, 5K towing capacity... It's a sport so it has sport tuned suspension - nothing like the handling of the TSX but high speed corners are a thing of the past with baby on board. It was either this or a minivan so I believe I made the right choice.

It was a good run with the TSX. 4 years and 7 months, 82K miles, averaged around 26 MPG, no major issues except a new transmission at 6K miles.

Cleaned it all up before I delivered it and it looked so nice. I was sad to see it go. But it's only a couple hours away and we are there quite often.

Thanks to everyone for their help along the way!

moda_way

I've been thinking about going this route (if the wife goes back to teaching full-time), giving the Highlander to my wife and using her slushbox 01 Civic EX while getting a CBR600RR for myself.

Picks with baby seat please!! Did you like the split row feature? How much room exists with the 3rd row up?

Mokos23

yeah the 1st gen TSX's only downfall is that it isn't big enough for families, but why were Euros and Japanese happy with this Euro Accord as a family car??

curls

I find the TSX suits me nicely. My 2 year old in her car seat (behind the pass. seat) fits fine and I can still have a long-legged friend up front without complaints from lack of leg room. I've fit 4 ppl + my daughters' car seat in the car before, although being lowered, the suspension travel was extremely limited.

I know the HIghlander is a nice SUV, no doubt, but I really can't seem to get why most people think having one or two kids means that they HAVE to get one. As Mokos23 said, Euros and Japanese (and to some extent, Canadians) prefer compact cars. It's an American thing, having the big "look at me I'm in a huge SUV" vehicle. I'm not trying to be offensive here -- I know many people who like the SUV and have the family sizes and a large dog + cargo to haul that justifies it, but why do people immediately require a SUV once they have a kid? I don't see the need.

PatrickB

I'll get some pictures with the seat in this evening. As an example, I'm 6' 3" with long legs and with the front seat all the way back, I can still fit in the back seat with room to spare. And the front seat has more than I've ever had in any other vehicle.

The split row you are referring to I assume is the 2nd row where I can have two buckets with or without console or a 3rd seat in the middle. It's nice from the little bit we've used it. Our only concern is the safety check may say they prefer the baby seat on one side or another as opposed to the middle. The manual says it's fine in the middle as long as you have both seats adjusted the same.

The room with the 3rd row up is pretty limited. I believe the spec is around 10 cubic feet. And the 3rd row does not split. The times we will actually use it, we'll have to live with it. I did not want to go to any bigger of a vehicle. I'll take some pics of that as well.

PatrickB

The 2nd gen doesn't have any more leg room in the front or the back. The sales guy tried to tell me different until I showed him. He acted surprised. We looked at a TL-S also and even though it had more front leg room, the back was still crowded.

xenonhid

IMO, the TSX is still too big, I really wanted the Lexus IS350, thats the perfect size sedan for me.

dom

Lets see, Minivan's are better on fuel, less on insurance and far more practical. But you'll look cool in the SUV so yes, it was a far better choice.

Just playing devil's advocate. I was VERY close to picking up a 08 Highlander but went with what was the right choice for us, a Minivan.

But Congrats. If I was buying an SUV the Highlander would have been it.

PatrickB

Trust me, I did not want to give up my car. I've been driving it payment free for the last 7 months and it's the best car I've ever owned. But the reality is 1) the baby seat is safest in the middle (according to my wife who at this point has the right to tell me that) and when in that position my knee was literally in the dash. 2) Even if we put it to the side, my wife and I switch who drives quite a bit and it adds effort of moving it all the time. 3) We typically travel to our cabin (2.5 hours each way) most weekends so it's not like I'm taking short trips. 4) By the time we pack up all our stuff, our trunk is normally full, now add a stroller, pack and play, etc... and we're out of room. Then if I want bring my golf clubs too, I'm really out of luck. 5) We have a need to pull a boat and trailer once at our cabin so instead of leaving an old truck up there, this way we can use what we have.

I agree that some buy a huge SUV for no apparent reason and I really don't want to be classified as one of those people. That is why I'm not driving a Suburban. I also agree we could have made it work, but the sacrifice in my mind wasn't worth it.

BTW I'm averaging 22MPG 50/50 city highway mix.

wackura

It makes us Americans look either wimpy, self important or overweight when we insist that what the rest of the world considers a family car is untenably small for even one kid. I wish people would atleast admit they're doing it for the comfort and not purely out of necessity. Lie to yourself but don't lie to me.

PatrickB

That comment was aimed more toward the TSX driving crowd that might not understand why I was moving to a worse handling vehicle. I didn't fit well in the minivan either. And a few other specs:

Highlander 4WD MPG 17/23
Sienna 2WD MPG 17/23
Odyssey (w/ VCM) MPG 17/25

Insurance is less than $1 more for 6 months than my TSX

Highlander front leg room 43.2"
Sienna front leg room 42.9"
Odyssey front leg room 40.8"
(even though the sienna is close, I believe the dash sticks out farther or something because my knee was about 2" from the dash)

I thought I would end up getting the minivan, but was swayed the other way.

PatrickB

Yes, I did it absolutely 100% for the comfort. Though I've always had to make adjustments for my height. If I can cram myself into a standard coach class seat on an airplane or sit in an extra leg room seat, I will always choose the latter. On the other hand when I see a 5' tall person in the same extra leg room seat, I wonder if they want the space just because they can have it?

PatrickB

I saw a family of 4 on a moped in the Dominican Republic...

PatrickB

I was more upset with myself that after the TSX I wouldn't accept anything less than a fully loaded model when the base model would have worked just as well for my needs.

808havok_tsx

funny thing is i did the exact opposite - i went from a highlander to a tsx. our family, unlike many people, actually used the suv for suv reasons. we hauled things in the back for my dad's business and it acted as a people transport for our family. we no longer needed to haul things after my dad passed away 5 years ago so i was car payment free for a looooooooong time. but it was coming to the end of its extended warranty and only had 57,xxx miles on it after 7 years of riding so it was the best time to get rid of it. i always wanted the tsx since it came out in 04' so i got exactly what i wanted!

PatrickB

Congrats on the new TSX. It really is a great car! BTW, if you haven't looked at the new Highlanders, you should check one out. I was amazed at the difference from the older ones.

vincethe1

i wud of gotten an 08 Odyssey...way better vehicle, it's a car..not a truck.

Mokos23

he doesn't want to be seen in a minivan

PatrickB

We drove one and it was nice. I especially liked the built in sunshades and the extra room in back. Not much front leg room though. I would have gotten the touring model so it would have had memory seats and adjustable pedals. Although the one we drove was an EX-L. We would have ended up paying about 4 - 5K more for it too.

BTW my Highlander is on a Avalon platform so to me it's still a car unlike my 4Runner which is an actual body on frame. Side note, we actually considered getting the Avalon also.

And I get 4WD which helps in the snow (although the TSX with snow tires is amazing).

PatrickB

I really wouldn't mind. The big thing I like about them is the power sliding rear doors and if they were available on the Highlander I would have got them in an instant (which would have made it just like a minivan).

I was actually convinced we were getting the minivan for quite a while.

And we still may add one and get rid of the 4Runner once the second child comes along.

Mokos23

what does your dad think about your TSX you sold him?

PatrickB

He loves it. He parked his 10 - 12 mpg 2500HD Chevy and now only uses it when he needs to haul something. I figured he'd save around $200/month on gas. He's a realtor and a lot of the driving he does is to run signs to and from houses, take pictures and in general just continually drive around up to about 50 miles in any direction.

One day I'll probably swap back on the stock RSB for him and replace the Icebox with the stock system.

moda_way

I'll be the 2nd person in this thread to say, "I don't want a minivan" Yeah, they the perfect application for the need to haul kids, but sorry, the wife and I will not submit to it. The only benefit I can see at the moment is with the third row up, you are limited to storage behind the 3rd row. So you use a hitch mounted rack and boom, done. I really like the Highlander and have also looked (generally speaking) at an Acadia. Kudos for your choice PatrickB.

The TSX is great for 2 kids forward facing. It is a bit of pain with one facing backwards in the pumpkin seats, but my wife is short, so she got that. Her Civic EX actually feels like it is more roomie in the back b/c no hump on the floor. We do fine right now, but there will be a 3rd child some day and now is the time to get a deal on the soon to be SUV.

moda_way

I don't... but if I the plan happens, I might be seen in a Civic EX auto.

Mokos23

i'd rather be in an accord sedan 4 cyl, before a civic ex

wackura

I went the used Odyssey Touring route, but I found a realy realy good deal so that trumped some of the usual pros and cons between it and other vehicles. I also had to hold out for the decked out version because I didn't want to long for the TSX's features anytime I have to use the minivan. Suprisingly a 2005 Odyssey Touring has features the TSX didn't receive until later, if at all, including tire pressure sensors, a backup camera and parking proximity sensors among other things.

As for being seen in one, I feel like Mr. Mom when I drive it but thats a hold over from the 90's, nowadays moms drive suburbans and crossovers. I'd rather be associated with the perceived practicality of a minivan than the perceived glut of an SUV, especially in these times of high gas prices. I realize the Odyssey and Highlander are equivelent in many respects but most people don't know that. Also the Odyssey's driving feel has been praised, the Highlander's is not.

PatrickB

Thanks for sticking up for me in this anti-SUV forum.

My step-mother has an Enclave and it's really nice, but I still question GM quality. And she averages 18MPG. And check the front and 2nd row legroom, there's more in the Highlander - although I give them credit for more 3rd row room and cargo room but thats expected with the extra foot+ of overall length.

PatrickB

Driving the Highlander and Odyssey and TSX back to back, I actually preferred the Highlander to the Odyssey. On the other hand I am convinced that I can get close to similar gas mileage to the TSX if I just take it easy, so I really haven't pushed it. It does have 19's standard and sport tuned suspension so that helps.

dom

Not sure how old your kids are but both of mine are in car seats. If yours are as well, how do you plan to access or put people in the 3rd row with car seats in the middle row? The middle seats need to be folded forward so you can gain access. not easily accomplished with car seats in there. That was the main reason I went minivan.

Tmetcalf

My wife tried to get me into an Odyssey which granted is the best of whats available but I put my foot down and said she will never see me drive it and she would have to do all the driving. In the end we got a Pilot which is the next best thing. As far as kids go in the back of the TSX I have a 3 yr old and an 18 month old and they fit back there fine. It can get kind of tight and forget about anyone else back there but I'm not giving my TSX up for a different car that can fit them more comfortably. That's what the pilot is for. Now my wife is trying to persuade me to downgrade the TSX to a civic, as its the commuter car that we share.

dmassott

first off i'm not going to bash you for getting an suv , just wondering what happened to your tranny that it had to be replaced so soon?

vincethe1

li'm not looking to start a war, sorry...it's just that i hate suvs lol.

http://members.tripod.com/lunas_2/suv.html

hughmacher

Hey Patrick,
Congrats on your purchase. We all end up getting what is right for us in the end based on our needs and preferences. It sounds like you made the right choice for you and your family.

I really agonized over what to get when I had to finally get rid of my 94 GSR ( ah... 14 years of automotive glee, and 10 no car payments). In my case I had the TSX/TL debate (loved the TSX since day 1, liked the TL well because it was available in stick and had more power, who know maybe it was leftover Type-R lust).

I prefer smaller cars and so I have preference for sedans over minivan or SUV. I'm short 5'9" and prefer to sit up close (from all my days in auto cross). We have a 3 year old in a car seat and that sits behind me. On the other hand my wife is 5'9" has our 13 year old sitting behind her. right now he's 5'2" and if he grows like everyone else in my family then we are going to run into space issues back there for him.

Right now the TSX meets my personal preference and fits my family needs. Just to hedge our bets my wife just got a CRV and there is ample room back there to fit both boys so we're pretty good for the next couple of years.

Mokos23

thanks, pretty funny article, but true too

PatrickB

At about 5K it started a whining noise while going about 35 - 40. It got worse to the point I took it in. After them looking at it for about an hour, the tech and service manager started wispering back and forth, then the service manager gets a real serious look on his face and comes over and says they are going to give me a loaner that the car is unsafe to drive and needs a new transmission. They never did tell me what happened as they had to ship it back to Honda without taking it apart. They could only guess that their was a faulty bearing from the beginning. BTW it's a 5AT.

PatrickB

The 2nd row center console can be removed and you can access the back that way too (through the middle) as long as it's not two rear facing seats that you couldn't get around.

PatrickB

As promised, here are some pictures...

With the seat in the middle and front seats all the way back - in this setup there is no access to the 3rd row...


With the seat on the side and front seat all the way back - this way you can enter the 3rd row either through the center or by sliding the seat


and with the seat slid forward


and with the middle replaced with the console


Now the cargo room with the 3rd row down


and with the 3rd row up


and finally a quick picture of the outside


Hope this helps!

wackura

Recommended reading: http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html

wackura

The Odyssey lets you move one of the two middle row chairs up against the other so that the third row can be accessed without leaning the seats forward or having to pass between them. You could have two baby seats in the middle row and still easily get to the third row with that setup.

DLTSX6MT

Odyssey owner here too. Not to rain on the OP's purchase, but my take on the debate of minivan vs SUV for general family schlepping purposes (emphasis on 'general', which applies to the vast majority of the SUV buying public):

Minivan = huge sliding doors, sometimes powered. Ability to walk in through those sliding doors. Ability to stand up and walk around inside. Ability to get up and walk from the front seats to the second row, and third row, and even the tailgate (stooped down, of course). More comfortable seats (how can you beat captain's chairs?). Roomier third row seating. Removable or fold-into-floor seats. In-floor storage. A ton more storage behind the third row. Bigger and lower tailgate opening and liftover height. Low sills mean easy ingress/egress. No need to waste money getting step bars to bring down the height of a vehicle that is most likely pointlessly high off the ground for most of its owners. Generally better ride, handling, mileage.

SUV = lifts your ego because you care what all those people in the mall parking lot you don't know and will never see again think of you.