dez

I'm looking to lease a TSX in the near future (3-4 months) when the lease on my 2001 CL is up.

I know that right NOW, the money factor on a new TSX is around AHFC's standard .00205 and the residual is a WHOPPING 64-65% on a 36 month lease.

I've heard that residual values decline every 2 months, which means that the residual will be LOWER therefore making my monthly payments HIGHER when I am looking to lease ...

However, I'm hoping that to offset this, I will be able to negotiate a better SELLING price at this point.

After running all the numbers on leaseguide, and other spreadsheets, if you were able to LEASE this car for 36 months, with the standard 12000 miles per year and put ONLY inceptions down (1st month/Bank Fee, ttl) you should only be looking at a monthly payment of around $325/month, INCLUDING 6% sales tax (I'm in NJ) based on a SELLING PRICE of $25100 (that's $500 OVER invoice) with a 64% residual, and a money factor of .00205 (roughly 4.92%) --

The dealer then makes $500 over invoice, plus the 2-3% holdback ... isn't that a fair deal for everyone ??

Hell, I'm used to getting my deals AT or even BELOW invoice. Right now, I could get a 2003 CL Type-S for $500 below invoice AND an additional $1000 rebate that can be applied to the selling price -- I'm almost thinking of doing it -- but I really wanted a change.

So, is it even worth it to try and let the dealer by out my lease now(I believe I'm actually in the positive - equity-wise) and see if we could work out a payment with TODAY's good figures, or do I wait until my lease expires and deal with the crappier residuals, but hope that maybe the money factor gets better and I can negotiate a selling price close to invoice ? I can't see paying only $500 below STICKER for this car -- since this is the only deal going in the Philly/NJ area right now ..

There is ONE dealer who was advertising $1000 below MSRP but I haven't seen it lately ...

Sorry for the long FIRST post ! I hope to be here a while with the rest of you fine people !!!

Jaeger

I think the combination of a selling price of $500 over invoice plus a residual of 65% after 36 months is a sweetheart deal that I would jump on in a heartbeat. The residuals up here in Canada are not nearly that high .

Cheers,

Jaeger

dez

Is there NO ONE else who is leasing this car ??? I'm sure that can't be the case !!!

Any input at ALL would be appreciated !! thanks !!!

Count Blah

Have you been quoted "$500 OVER invoice" or are you just hopeful?

gcomstock

Dez, I'm looking at leasing also. My first question would be: despite what your leasing program calculates as the monthly lease price, have you actually gotten a dealer to quote that?

After pursuing lease quotes on a dozen or so cars, scouring CarMan's lease info at Edmunds, and even using my financial calculator to grumble some numbers, I've come to the same conclusion Jack Nicholson was given in Polanski's Chinatown: "Forget it Jake. It's Chinatown."

In general, the logic of leasing pivots on the expectation of walking away from the car at lease end. Hence, if they'd set the residual at 90%, heck, what me worry? Case in point: I leased a '97 Infiniti I30 for $399/month, tax included, based on a puffed up residual. When I turned the car in, the buy-out was $21K, and the market value was...$14K. Infiniti caught a clue, adjusted the residual to real world conditions, and now when I try to lease another $32K car from them, the payments are at least $100 higher.

Look at these seemingly whack quotes I'm getting:
(all the quotes below are based on 36 months, inceptions only, 12K, local tax NOT included, and obtained from internet/fleet managers on the admonition that they give me their best shot)

'04 RL3.5 ~ $525/month
'03 TL Navi ~ $414/month
'03 Accord V6 Navi ~ $369/month
'03 Avalon V6 Navi ~ $580/month
'03 Camry V6 Navi ~ $550/month
'03 G35 Navi ~ $535/month

At the point that I decide or announce "I only care about the drive off's and monthly payments" I join the legions of yokels that car salesmen call "lay downs," even though I have good credit and am actually kinda savvy money-wise.

Fact is, however, that when I test the actual capitalized price, money rate and residual the sales guys are using, the numbers do NOT compute the quotes they give. I *know* that the Acura quotes reflect big discounts from MSRP ($6K for the RL, $4K for the TL), and that the residuals for those cars are still perhaps artifically high. But the Toyota quotes just tell me "these guys are NOT in the leasing business." It defies logic, but I still think that secret profits are getting buried somewhere in the quotes...but I don't care.

It's really hard to resolve our affinities for a color or fender contours, etc. Once that's settled, bottom line numbers are easy. Can you really get the TSX for $325/month?

wetterinc

gcomstock,

Anything is possible, but leasing a TSX right now for $325 including taxes is probably improbable. I'm currently leasing a TSX w/ NAV for 4 years, 12k/year for $389 with $1,000 drive off. I've shopped around and dealers have been quoting me around $350 a month including tax for a non-navi. I think if you can deal real well, then it is possible.

dez

gcomstock, it was great reading your post .. I'm sure we've seen each other over at Edmunds !! And yes, it's crazy to see numbers like that from dealers when you do all the homework first - it's like you KNOW you are getting hosed, it's just a matter of HOW BAD !!

Well to everyone that asked .. NO, I was NOT quoted that price .. I was HOPEFUL of that price. I figured it might be attainable when the demand for the car cools down. Based on calculations, USING a number of $500 over invoice (roughly $1500 off sticker) and the proper residuals and money factors, that IS what the monthly lease payment SHOULD come out to ! www.leaseguide.com has a great calculator to use.

The whole deal with residuals and money factors can be VERY tricky, and I'm sure the dealers are able to hide much more profit in leases than in true financed purchases .. BUT, if you go in there with the information after settling on a price and they USE those numbers, HOW can you NOT get the deal you want ???

Once you have a residual value and money factor for a bank (or Honda Finance in this case) the only thing left is the SELLING PRICE (or Cap Cost) for the lease ... right ???

wetterinc, the $350 a month payment is probably the more realistic BEST case scenario right now ... and that's still at maybe only $800 off sticker, with a decent amount of profit going to the dealer.

THE DEALERS ARE MAKING GOOD $$$ off this car !! It's obvious !!

spOOge

I hit my first Acura dealer this weekend to get a lease price estimate and found out some interesting news. Acura is discontinuing leasing for some time in a handful of states across the country. Specifically in New York State, the last date to finalize a lease is July 31rst. Apparently due to some older state laws insurance companies AND leasing companies were getting hit financially with damages in certain cases when accidents occured with leased vehicles. As a result Citibank, Honda International and a number of other car leasing institutions in specific states are dropping leasing until these older laws can be altered within each affected state.

On a bright note, Acura is offering a viable alternative to leasing known as balloon payment financing. In a nutshell your payments are calculated in a similar fashion to leasing where the residual value at the end of your financing term decides the monthly payment. However, unlike leasing the title is in your name, and you are charged tax per payment. Similiar to leasing you have the 12k-15k per year mileage cap with a guarentee from Acura that they will buy back the car from you at the end of term for the residual value of the car or you can opt to re-finance/buy the car outright at that point in time.

What does this mean in pricing? I priced out a Carbon Grey TSX 6M with Nav and MP3 Player, Foglights, Trunk Tray, Rear Spoiler dealer options. I dont have the exact figures at hand (im at work atm) but for a 4year 12k lease the price came to about $352 with a 3k downpayment. In contrast the balloon payment financing adds about $20 in tax per payment so for the same setup I was quoted about $375 also with a 3k down payment. I am not planning to buy the car until December-January so I did not bother to haggle I just wanted the base information. I believe the interest rate for both options was %5.29 These were straight up prices including dealer option installation fees. At the end of the 4 years the car is worth about 15k to buy outright. When I am ready to get my TSX I _think_ I can get anywher.e from $500-$1000 taken off the top then reprice it at that price point, but from everything I have heard I dont think much more is possible.

Sorry about the long post..