Nogard13

Well, I just got back from Radley Acura in Fairfax, VA. I was bored today and decided to go test drive the TSX since it's one of the cars I'm considering buying (hence why I visit this forum). I took out an 06 AT with Nav package and here is what I thought:

Interior:

First thing I noticed where how hard the seats felt. They were comfortable at that moment but I don't know if a long road trip would make my back hurt. The seats in my 02 Honda Civic actually felt more comfortable. The visibility was good, however, and the sliding center console gets mad props.

I liked the fit and finish inside, too. Everything felt like it was just where I would want it to be if I were driving and reached over to do something. The handsfree wasn't really all that intuitive as I tried to pair my phone to test it out and never figured it out. The navi, tho, was pretty cool. I must say, if I do purchase a new car (or, better yet, when I do), I'm definitely getting the nav package.

I did have a problem with the door locks. They interfered with my arm placement when the windows where rolled down. I guess I could get used to that, tho.

Performance:

The engine felt like it had enough power while driving around town but didn't really have the pick-up I expected on the highway. I guess it just needs a bit more torque. I was driving at 70 MPH and I tried to pass some SUV driving besides me. My Scion tC actually feels stronger in this department (and it's at 3200 RPM compared to about 2600 RPM for the TSX so that might have something to do with it, too). I didn't feel like downshifting with the auto since I won't be doing that on a normal basis when I get my car. I fear that uphill roads at highway speeds might be a problem.

Overall:

Overall, I would have to give the TSX an 8.5 out of 10. I was really expecting more power from a 205 hp engine, even if it is an auto. I hear the manual feels peppier but I really want an automatic for my next vehicle. I've been driving a stick for 17 years now and I'm really growing tired of it. Anywho, the steering wheel seemed a bit cluttered and I ended up hitting the voice recognition button several times on accident (I like to drive with my hand in that hole) so I would've preferred it be in another location.

One thing that this test drive did do was help me to appreciate my tC all that much more. I really wanted to upgrade her but now I see that she's really a bargain at half the price of the TSX or IS250, especially when I would rate my tC about an 8.5 as well. I do think I'd be happy with a TSX but it wasn't love at first drive like my Civic was (neither was the Scion, tho). I fell in love with my Civic immediately and still miss it. I like my tC but I don't love it. I'm looking for that love feeling again and thought Acura would provide it with the TSX.

Now it's time to go test drive the IS250. Maybe I'll do that next weekend.

Roffles

About the engine's power. It's a matter of getting used to it. It makes power in a totally different way than your TC. I'm coming from a mazda3 that makes similar power and in a similar fashion to your TC. With the TSX, you have to take it beyond 5,000rpm and keep it up there from one gear to the next. That's just how Honda has designed their high compression vtec engines. But yeah, it's definitely faster than my old mazda3, and I believe the mazda3 and scion TC have about equal performance.

Nogard13

Yes, they do. Here's a bit of a comparison (all numbers from Motorweek):

TSX:
0 - 60 (sec): 7.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.9@90

tC:
0 - 60 (sec): 7.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.9@87

Mazda3:
0 - 60 (sec): 7.7
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.1@90

It's not the numbers I'm woried about. It's the feel. I know how Honda's VTEC works. I've had several Honda's in the past and I know you have to keep it reved up. I'm not a big fan of this, tho, and thought Acura would improve on it. I'm yet to drive the IS250 so I'll let you guys know how it compares.

Roffles

Hrmm, car and driver gives the mazda3 manual a 7.3 0-60 & 15.8 quarter mile, the Scion tC manual a 7.4 0-60 & 15.7 quarter mile, and manual TSX a 7.0 0-60 & 15.5 quarter mile. The only true difference performance wise between a Scion tC, TSX and a Mazda3 is the Mazda handles WAY better. Regardless, you can toss around different numbers from different reviews and talk about how it feels different, but the bottom line is that all three of these cars are SLOW.

If fractions of a second on already slow cars are a deciding factor. Or not being used to a new type of engine because it's different than your current car ends up being a deciding factor, you really need to rethink your reason for wanting a car. The bottom line is the TSX is an awesome cruising luxury car that is very comfortable, tight and stable. And you'll hardly ever feel the urge to drive fast because you're too busy enjoying the nice stereo and all the features that make you so comfortable and content.

hackbart

I just got back from a cross country trip. 2500 miles, 8-12 hours a day in those seats.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35441

I agree in that at first that it took me a bit, but in the end the TSX seats proved to be very comfortable. I just had to dick around with the seat adjustments for a while to get them where I wanted. And I'm older than most of you guys and more sensitive to seats. Either my back or my tail bone can get to hurting pretty easy on long trips. Also one thing I've learned; harder isn't necessarily bad.

falcogreg

Ya know, I love quotes like this! I mean, c'mon SLOW??? I have a motorcycle so I know what FAST is. To even approach a bike, you gotta be willin to fork over 40 large or so to compete (80 plus is more typical). There ain't a stock car out there that could come near me in a real world situation. I'm willing to bet that the TSX has better performance numbers than 75-80% of the cars out there. Yeah, you want better, spend at least $5-10k more (again just guessing based on my experiences). To get this performance from this car with all the amenities at this price point, I think you'll have a hard time coming close. You want an adrenaline rush, get a bike and find out what it's all about. Otherwise, enjoy it for what it is or spend a lot more for the gains. But don't knock this car for that reason. It has a lot going for it!!!! 'Nuf said.

L1StarTSX

The IS250 isnt much better...its a dog compared to the IS350. Its typical Lexus, the old IS's started low but came with nothing, they make you pay through the nose to get anything worth a damn. I would take my TSX over an IS250 any day and twice on track day. I-Vtech>>>>204HP V6

dnd2984

iTrader: (6)

IS250>TSX>IS350

The only reason I say IS250 lowest is price....If the same price or even 1 to 2 grand differ I say is250 over TSX

Nogard13

Well, the Lexus also has dual VVT-I (for intake and exhaust) so VTEC isn't really a selling point for me. The TSX does win the bang-for-the-buck award, tho. That is the reason I'm so interested in the TSX. For about 30K OTD you can get a TSX loaded with every creature comfort you'll ever want, including Navigation. That, to me, is a very big selling point on the TSX. Also, the Lexus is about 3 grand more, comparably equiped. That's a good thing for Acura.

HOWEVER, I still want a car that I can fall in love with. Maybe after I test drive the IS I'll decide that it's not for me and just go with the TSX. I'm not buying a car for at least 6-9 months so I have plenty of time to decide. Also, I want to see when Acura plans on changing the TSX. I know Honda usually does a 4-5 year life cycle so it will either be all-new for 08 or 09 (I'm hoping for 08).

BTW, the stereo is pimp. I really enjoyed the sound generated by the Acura sound system. The 6-disc in-dash changer also helps on selling me. Too bad it's not MP3 capable but that's what my iPod is for.

I don't want you guys getting the impression that I'm dumping on the TSX. I've always been a Honda and Toyota guy and I'm hard pressed to find flaws in either manufacturer's vehicles. Also, the TSX is an entry-level luxury car and I have that well in mind. I do think the style is a little dated and I wish they would come out with the new body style next year.

DenverTSXer

Regarding seats: I'm old too (hello hackbart, from a native Okie), and I think the TSX seats are great, even on a long trip. It does seem to take a bit of effort to find just the right adjustment though. Surprisingly, the seats in my '03 Civic Si were even better on a long drive. Rock-hard with huge bolsters, they felt odd at first, but I could drive all day and still be nice and bendable when I got out. The TSX's are almost as good, for me at least.

As for the Toyota/Lexus vs. Honda/Acura: I've owned one Toyota, one Honda, and now an Acura. What quickly struck me is the sensation that a Honda or Acura seems to possess (for lack of a better word) at least a little bit of a soul that a Toyota or Lexus just doesn't have. Just my opinion of course, but I've heard the same comment (unsolicited) from two other "switchers."

As for style, I love the TSX. Obviously it's not bleeding edge, but that suits me perfectly. There are details I would change if I could, but overall the design strikes me as timeless. Plus I kinda like to fly under the radar (figuratively and literally).

Anyway, it's hard to know what you'll love based on a few test drives. Admittedly I've purchased the wrong car on one or two occasions. But I only keep a car 4 years max, so I can deal. Good luck to you.

Overtaxed

Nogard, I've heard that Toyotas have good torque, and I feel our non-sporty 4-cylinder Camry has good, solid torque for merging/passing on the highway, even though it's slower to accelerate.

I think this may be the reason you don't feel that much of a "value gain" over the Scion tC

Even though I am nuts about my TSX, I also had that feeling comparing our TSX to our Camry, because (we feel) the Camry is just a great value at its price point. However, as I love cars and driving, I just had to have the TSX instead of another Camry or Lexus as our second car. It's a truly great-handling, nimble, agile, etc. etc. entry-level luxury sports sedan.

The IS is fantastic and was my second choice. It handles nicely, but it doesn't handle quite as well as the TSX. It may appeal to you more though, for other reasons. (e.g. it's a step-up in luxury)

However, if you do not need a car right away, take your time and *only* get what you truly love. It may not exist yet. Don't compromise. You seem to miss the car you love. So get another one you'll love more.

Overtaxed

Oops, forgot: Regarding the seats.

I briefly had an 06 Civic Coupe that I traded for the TSX.

That coupe had the most comfortable seats I've ever experienced! I cannot reproduce that comfort on my TSX, and I'll still always miss those amazing seats, but I find the TSX seats nice and comfortable nonetheless.

Overtaxed

Me too! Do you also find the previous generation TLs, for example, still look great? I think it has to do with the "timeless" styling.

I know the TSX styling is on the "conservative" side, but I love it!, it's got that "elegant understated look" and I think it will also look timeless.

psteng19

I agree on the seats. To me, they're not the most comfortable. Especially after having sat in a G35s with the inflatable side bolsters, or an Evo VIII Recaro's.
The TSX needs more side bolstering for that hugging feeling.

As for the engine, I can actually accelerate on a very steep hill in 6th gear as long as I keep it above 2500rpm.
If I drop it down two gears to 4th at about 4000, I can pass every car effortlessly.
That's how you will need to drive this car if you want it to be quick.
It's not torquey like the TL or G35 where you can blow by people without downshifting.

So you've been driving stick since you were 13? Impressive

psteng19

How many cc's is your bike?
Look up the Ariel Atom. It will hang with a bike in the straights and blow by it in the twisties or at the track.

jwmack82

My TSX came with a quick-start guide that provided me with a few easy directions for linking my phone with the car’s handsfreelink. Once linked, operation is very intuitive.

I used to keep my arm on the window ledge like you, but discovered the TSX’s leather armrests are quite comfortable. I adapted quickly.

The driver’s seat has adjustable lumbar. You’ll probably find a comfortable setting so that your back doesn’t hurt.

I have a manual in my TSX so I don’t have experience with TSX automatics, but I have read that there is an advanced grade-logic system in the automatic - uphill roads at highway speeds should not be a problem.

Tex929rr

It is hard at first to get used to the A/T car downshifting on the highway with the cruise on, but it works fine.

falcogreg

WOW, now that's cool! How much do they go for? I have an Aprilia Falco (hence my screen name). 998 cc's twin cyl. Great bike. From what I can see, you're probably right. But, how much and I would hardly call that a stock car. Is it even street legal?

falcogreg

WOW, now that's cool! How much do they go for? I have an Aprilia Falco (hence my screen name). 998 cc's twin cyl. Great bike. From what I can see, you're probably right. But, how much and I would hardly call that a stock car. Is it even street legal?

psteng19

Did you see this vid?
http://www.youtube.com/w/Ariel-Atom-2?v=y3IC6iYwPT0

Yup, it's street legal. Someone I know was interested enough to check to see if it was street legal here in the US and indeed it is.
In the video, they mention it's street legal in the UK.
I was pretty shocked, see that it doesn't even have bumpers, but then I thought about the Plymouth Prowler and it's not much better.

I think the conversion from pounds to dollars brings it to about $40g's... did the conversion in my head

falcogreg

WOW, now that's cool! How much do they go for? I have an Aprilia Falco (hence my screen name). 998 cc's twin cyl. Great bike. From what I can see, you're probably right. But, how much and I would hardly call that a stock car. Is it even street legal?

rugbybrado

why do you say that?

if you actually look at power charts (see dealer manual on the tsx) the motor doesnt actually do much in vtech besides get louder.

aaronng

There is no "h" in i-vtec.

Below 6000rpm, both engines run on 1 cam profile, with the IS250 having the advantage of vvti on both the intake and exhaust side. The TSX's VTC is only on the intake side. vvti only changes cam phasing, not lift.

IS250 makes its torque from high compression made possible by direct injection and good quality gas. Good torque throughout the range. The TSX makes it through a more traditional way of using aggressive cams. Torque is more centered around the powerband of 3000-5500rpm on lowcam and a little boost at highcam from 6000-7000rpm. You'd get away with using 89 octane on the TSX, but not with the IS250.

Tex929rr

Greg is right. Unless you ride fast cars and bikes a lot, it's tough to understand. I ride a couple of liter bikes (CBR929rr and Aprilia Mille R) and also drive a C6 Corvette. Yes, in some street situations a performance car can be faster (and often much less scary) than a bike, but from the apex out of a corner on dry pavement it's pretty tough to catch a liter bike. Race bikes and cars are of course a different thing. Even a Moto GP bike can't keep up with an open-wheel race car.

All that having been said, cars are geting much faster. If you drive a car like a new Vette or Viper it's an order of magnitude faster than anything you've driven before.

I see this same argument a lot on car forums - the driver and rider are what really counts anyway.

Ellas9

Agreed 100%. With this in mind, if you have the 5AT and want to make a quick pass on the highway, you need to gun the throttle (i.e fast movement) and/or quick move on the throttle with a manual downshift to 4th....you need to be somewhere near the correct powerband. It takes time to learn to drive the 5AT TSX properly; for instance, feathering the throttle will not achieve you optimum fuel efficiency on this car. The Toyota engine will indeed feel stronger at low rpms...but the Toyota 2.5LV6's throttle response is less than impressive and high rpm torque will drag. The seats on the TSX are amazing.

Nogard13

Yup, my mom hurt her back and had to have surgery in 1989 so I got to drive her 86 Hyundai Excel everywhere (doctor's office, grocery store, school, mall, etc.).

As for the IS250, I went to test drive it today but there were 7 other people waiting to drive it when I got there (the 5AT version). They had the 6MT but I didn't want to drive the MT since I want to buy the AT. I'm going back on Tuesday morning.

Also, the dealer guy said that they don't have the RWD versions "this far north." Go figure! He said they only have the AWD version for the 5AT and the RWD version for the 6MT. Ain't that a bitch? I want the RWD because the AWD is about 3 grand more than the RWD. Maybe this will steer me more towards the TSX

L1StarTSX

Because a v6 that makes 204hp imo on a sports coupe is a waste. I drove the IS350 and the Is250 the 350 is obviously quick, not as quick as the 335i, but much faster than the 250 and tsx. The 250 left me more or less unimpressed. After enjoying the revs of the vtec, the is250 has a nice powerband, but is dissapointing in power as a whole. If I am going to pay 2-3 grand more than a tsx, I would expect to be getting a hell of a lot better engine. I could care less about the lux part, the TSX is fine for me, I had a 330ci before and neither the 250 nor the TSX are close in lux, but then again, you get more bang for your buck with the TSX. Factor in the resale values and for me TSX>>>>>IS250.


...and I know there's no H in vtec, was a bit tipsy yesterday

Nogard13

I'm with you L1StarTSX. I also think that 204hp out of a V6 is a waste. They need 12:1 compression ratio to achieve those numbers, too. They should've just stuck with the 3.0 and made it the IS300 and IS350 and given us a 240hp engine on the 300 and the 306 produced by the 350. That would certainly justify the cost over a TSX.

I have planty of time to shop around, tho. I won't be buying a new car until at least August or September but I want to see what's out there now and do my homework, ya know? If the TSX redesigns for 08 that would just be gravy.

PJS

Says he who's NEVER ridden a bike!
Unless the bike is asthmatic, there's no way (even against AA/Westfield/Chaterham) it'll be "blown" in the twisties or on track.
Equal measure of bhp/ton, and the bike still walks it due to cornering capabilities, lighter masses to move.
When you invent your twisty, track-eating car, give me a shout - I'll be more than happy to eat my shorts once I've blown every other bike out there.

psteng19

Don't have a bike of my own, but rode my bud's GSX-R (600), so I know just how quick bikes are.

Just watch the video.
And then look up another Top Gear video where a Carerra 911 4S (?) beats a Yamaha R1 on a track.
Then you'll see it's the corners where the bike loses all the ground it gains in the straights.

S power

Have you notice the smoothness of the v6 over the 4 banger? Try turning on your a/c and put it in D and step on the brake and do the same on any 6 cylinder(even though its only 200hp). Its a whole world of difference and this is why Lexus choose this version(is250) for luxury and MPG rather than hp. Not only that, even on accelaration, the TSX sounds like its struggling to get up there.
I think the TSX should've gotten the h22a and tweaked it up. Which to me that was a superior engine than this K series. I love that engine when I had the prelude. But a 4 cylinder can never be as smooth as a v6 at idle and accelaration.

As far as your opinion on bmw is a pure luxury over lexus? I used to have an 04' 325i. The engine is loud, the interior looks cheap and boring , the suspension is stiff(hence they are made for handling).Look at the 07' 3 series interior , lol they need alot to catch up. I really dont know whats the definition of luxury to you. But then again this is my personal opinion.

aaronng

When you have equal bhp/ton, a bike loses because it does not have the same cornering grip as a race car like the Atom. The only reason why a bike is quicker is because of their superior power to weight ratio.

aaronng

That's only because the h22a had a shorter stroke, lighter flywheel and a shorter gear ratio. If you destroke the k24a2 to 2.2 or 2.3L to raise the safe max rpm, you'd be enjoying it too.

Roffles

Yeah, I owned an 00' prelude and it's somewhat simlar to the TSX. They are similar in that you have to get on it really hard to get power. But the Prelude is so much lighter, and maybe this is why it was so much quicker. 3rd gear on the freeway was so much fun....it just kept pulling like the TSX does but it pulled harder. It was a whole lot faster than my TSX and my 05' mazda3 (on the freeway). So much faster in fact, that I would say you would need to do considerable power mods or weight reductions. But the TSX is plenty fast for daily driving....just don't plan on challenging anyone.

aaronng

Yeah, my friend's auto lude keeps up with my manual! Now that she has gone and got a manual conversion done to her lude (with a JDM Type S box), the thing is bloody quick. It's so revvy below 5000rpm (must be the Type S ratio and aftermarket flywheel) and above 6000rpm, it just screams and pulls smoothly.

S power

^ Thats what I was about to say. 3rd gear on the highway is the best. Even with stock exhaust , you'll know and actually hear the vtec slamming in. With my TSX, I dont even know if the Vtec even works.

L1StarTSX

The issue is still running a high compression type v6 generating low HP, but still needs to run Premium fuel. I have no issues with the smoothness of idle and acceleration. I know the TSX's place, and it revs happily there.

As far as my def. of lux, yes, purely objective here. Cant speak for the 325's engine, as I had a 330ci, big difference in HP and handling. The engine wasnt loud, even with a Dinan CAI and M catback set-up, the inline 6 sounded great. I didnt care for the navigation, which the TSX navi is sooo much better, but the power adjustable seats with lumbar (on the sport package) were very well done. I had the "hammered metal carbon trim" which looked great along with the black interior. The sport package, it was supposed to be more firm, if you didnt want that firmness, then the base suspension was as good as anything else out there.

Lux is subjective. I myself, personally prefer the styling of a true lux sports coupe or sedan, I loved my 330ci coupe, and I love my TSX for the same reasons. You dont like the new 335 styling, and I dont care for the solara/camary look to the new IS. I dont need leather door trim and the such. Lexus starts off low and then by the time you add what you want, you are some 10K higher than where you started. TSX, you can add an auto and navi, which will land you slightly higher than where you started. Huge difference in value. The TSX and BMW TO ME, are driver enthusiast cars...Lexus is not in that class, and they dont seem to mind or pretend to be.

Its all opinions anway.

Nogard13

!!UPDATE!!

Well guys, as I said, I was going to go test drive the Lexus IS250 this weekend. Here's what I thought:

My First Impression: the car looks very sleek. I find it more appealing than the TSX, but that's a taste thing. The FOB is also a nice little touch.

Interior: the first difference I noticed was how soft the leather seats felt. They were very comfortable and supportive at the same time. I know I bitched about the TSX's seats but I'm going to have to go back and adjust the seats a bit more and see if it was just a bad seat day for me. The wheel did seem to be a bit small but it was comfortable. They also didn't clutter the wheel like the TSX.

The seating was a bit low, tho, which gave it a kind of sunk feeling in the cockpit. Not something I really liked. Also, the visibility really sucks! I could barely see out of the rear window when backing up and the salesman made a big thing about Lexus having added the back-up camera just for this. The only problem is that you have to spend $4K on a package that includes Navi if you want the camera. Not smart! Also, I had to stop further back than normal on red lights just so I could see the signal. That, or I had to lean forward. Not what I'm looking for in a $35K car!

Performance: the IS250 felt very comfortable on the city streets and on the highway. I really didn't feel like it was lacking power at all. I tried to pass a car going 80mph and it accelerated smoothly and without much pedal effort. I found the paddle shifters to be a bit of an inconvenience, tho, since I like to drive with my hand on the center arm rest and I had to move my arm to upshift when in sports mode. I know it's a great feature that many applaud, but I just don't like it.

The power, as compared to the TSX, is about the same, tho. I could feel a little less effort in the IS250, probably due to the V6 and a bit more torque, but it's nothing I would pay $5 grand more to have.

Overall: it's a good thing this car is not meant to compete with the TSX because, feature-wise, the TSX is heads and shoulders above the IS250 (for the money, anyway). You need to spend $5-6K extra to have a car that is comparable in features. That's a big no-no. I guess Lexus thinks they make it up in craftsmanship and precision (and having a V6).

The salesman did impress me with a trick, tho. He took a business card and marked the panel gap between the hood and the fender. He then took the business card around the car to the other side of the hood, the door hinges, and the trunk and all the gaps were identical. That's impressive and shows amazing attention to detail. It's a very good selling point for Lexus. I'll have to try it with an Acura and see.

Oh, I also drove the IS350 since I was there. That car is a BEAST! Well worth the $40Gs, IMHO, on engine alone. It's too bad the visibility sucks just as bad as the IS250.

Nogard13

Oh, yeah, one more thing: I really hated the location of the window controls. They were down by my knee. I had to lean forward just to lower the driver's side window or hit the unlock button. Terrible placement.

tsxy87

Actually, when I drive my car, it's to drive it...not to sit in it and fiddle with the stereo or bluetooth, etc. I came from an 04 Mazda 6 and I feel that the TSX handles a lot better....and is a lot quicker.