SweetA$$Ride

I was washing my mom's friend's BMW 330i and i took it for a little spin. I'm so glad I got a TSX. That thing just wasn't as smooth as our car. Don't get me wrong...that thing was fast as hell and had mad torque, but it just wasnt smooth.

Dan Martin

What do you mean smooth? I've driven several 330i and it's every bit as solid as the TSX if not more so. It pulls stronger too.

yomama

My guess he means the TSX has s a smoother engine and ride.
He didn't mention anything about the solidity of the BMW.
He realizes the BMW pulls stronger too, as he mentioned that in his post.

Dan Martin

An inline six is inherently one of the smoothest running (well balanced) engine designes out there. I'm glad that he thinks the TSX is smoother than the 330i because that's quite a complement. I just don't share the same opinion.

sveet

If inline 6's are inhearently balanced (which they are), then why does my wife's Jeep feel like it is going to blow-up over 4K???

ilitig8

It is a balanced design in theory, however poor execution of the design can't be overcome by design. My guess is that Jeep doesn't bother to keep the weight of the various drive train parts in high enough tolerence to allow for smooth running over 4k.

My guess about the original posters "smooth" would be the ride, the 3.0 is about as smooth as production engines get and the power delivery is pretty linear and flat. If the 330 had the sport suspension and 18s (or worse if it had the ZHP package) the ride is significantly stiffer than the TSX.

I would be interested to know what he meant.

Vandy

SweetA$$Ride

What i meant was that the 330i was not as responsive as our TSX. There is a delay when you press down on the gas and it was kind of jerky. Maybe the car got messed up because the owner was a woman? I dont know...all i know is i like my TSX better.

MarkPinTx

Why is an I6 so inherently smooth? More so than a 4 banger? Both symmetrical, even number of cylinders . . . .

Im an ME and I can't figure out why this would be so. I can understand why a 5 cylinder is not smooth (in fact it must be balance shafts that keep it from tearing itself asunder).

Is it the fact that 6 pistons/rods/crank throws are separated by 60 degrees rather than 4 at 90?

sveet

I am an ME also and we did actually go over this in Dynamic Systems. It did make sense at the time, but for me that was a while ago, and I can no longer remember.

Inline 6's are naturally balanced and do not need counter rotating masses to balance them. The inline 6 is the only configuration that this is true.

V8's of various angles are balanced in some degree's but not others.

4-Cylinders are way off balance and without counter rotating masses, so old 4-bangers were really bad before they all figured out and applied counter rotating masses.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Bingo.

fdl

If you are interested, read through the first 3 pages.

http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_s...ne/smooth1.htm

MarkPinTx

Ahhh. I ASSumed that the crank throws were equally spaced angularly. They are not.

Gets pretty complicated. Interesting link fdl!

Sorry to hijack thread

jcg878

Huh?? This has not been my experience with them. I find the 330i to have an impressively smooth drivetrain, though my friend's does have a firm ride (SP).

mickey513

ilitig8

Now I understand. The AFAIK the 330 does not have throttle by wire, which would explain the difference in response. My M3 is throttle by wire (with a different sport mapping on demand) and to be quite frank I never have completely embraced it, my right foot has been programmed by years of cable driving! I still have a hard time getting power delivery smooth on the exit from low speed corners on the track (and this is with sticky 275s in the rear) and I never even use the sport mapping (it is fun to put it on when I let people drive it, it makes it feel like an even larger beast than it is).

As for jerky, not sure what you mean, since less response would seem counter-intuative to this, maybe you mean the clutch if it was a manual car, if so I agree BMW clutches do take a different touch from most and their feel is much different than the TSX. If it was an SMG car (manual gearbox with a electro-hydraulic clutch) then that is an ENTIRELY different story, SMGs have a very steep, but short, learning curve and are very jerky until you reach the palteau. If it was an auto, can't say since that has never examined this closely, but it was never my reaction when driving one.

Vandy

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Thanks. Interesting reading. I learned something useful today.

sauceman

Wow, excellent link! I can now understand the dynamics of engine balance, except for the V5s...

mickey513

All 2001+ e46 have drive by wire technology.

Buff-Daddy

There's a comparison for you. BMW's inline 6 vs. the American made Jeep engine... WOW!

Buff-Daddy

Didn't anyone wonder what the hell he was doing washing his mom's friends car? How old are you?
You must be sooooo happy that you got your TSX instead of the jerky and hesitant 330i. I am sure you were cross shopping the 2 cars seeing as though they are almost exactly the same price and of course evenly matched across the board in all performance categories.

sveet

It was sarcasm. I really didn't expect th inline 6 of the Jeep to be as smooth as a BMW........

93Kewl

Wasted logic. He's obviously young and infatuated with his car. Mind you, there's nothing wrong with that.

Look, I don't own a TSX nor a BMW and I love my 9-3. I could also list a ton of reasons why I am glad I didn't buy <insert car name here>.

However, like it or not, owner or not, Bimmer's are the standard by which others are judged. It took many years of consistant high-quality automobile craftmanship to earn that distinction. I find it very difficult to believe that anything about a TSX is "smoother" than a BMW. Many TSX'ers may not like the BMW for it's recent downfall in reliability ratings but they still need to give the car it's kudos for being what it has been and what it still is.

biker

And is taking a much shorter time to loose it thanks to their latest Bangelized models. Oh sure, they still provide a great ride when driven, but to many folks the looks and reliability ratings are more important. This seems to swaying some journalists bent on crowning every BMW at the top of the list. You see more and more reviews in which BMW is not at the top. And with cars such as the G35 (hopefully with a nicer interior for 05) coming along, BMW has only one way to go.
The fact is that we're getting to the point of diminishing returns in car performance. BMW is already just about perfect and can't do much to improve a car and keep its price competitive. Others have just about cought up and improving on things on which BMW has faltered (i-Drive).

SweetA$$Ride

This forum is a place to express opinions...am i right? I'm sorry if i offended you Mr. BMW OWNER. My age has nothing to do with anything. There's no need to bash on someone else's opinions. I'm sure you have some "dumb" things to say too. So let's cut the sarcasm.

Buff-Daddy

I wasn't offended at all and like you said, it is an open forum, so you will just have to deal with my sarcasm.
That reminds me, I got to sit courtside at the last Timberwolves game and it sucked, I am soooo glad that I bought those obstructed view tickets in the nose bleed section... Who needs all of that intense action and cheering fans, It is so much more peaceful up there all by yourself...

jiggaman

don't mind Cock-Daddy. he just acts the way he does because the spare set of keys to his Beemer is permanently stuck up his ass

SweetA$$Ride

haha. thats a good one.

dom

Buff-Daddy

A troll who knows more about the TSX than most of you do?

dom

Buff-Daddy

Awesone, when did you meet Gary Coleman and do you still have your Camero?

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Too bad that's a Trans Am dumbass.

jlukja

A rear-wheel drive Trans-Am.

dom

Its CamAro, BTW.

Buff-Daddy

I'd be more embarrassed if I knew that.

Jason

That's KITT!

1SICKLEX

330 is the sport sedan benchmark PERIOD. Every car maker and their momma is trying to meet/beat the 330. Whoever started this thread knows jack shit about cars.

Jason

I drive what I consider to be the benchmark.

1SICKLEX

WHich is cool. I am saying that the 330 is the benchmark and everyone else aimed at it when designing their sport sedan.
TSX
IS 300
G35
C-class Sport
CTS
X-type
etc etc

What HAS changed is whereas before, BMW had the sport sedan market on LOCK, nowadays there is good competition to choose from.

Buff-Daddy

Please be patient as Jason takes a break from reality. Hopefully he will be back with us again soon...