sauceman

I'd say the ego factor plays in a lot more for BMW owners than for Accord owners. BMW being the symbol of a certain status, many more people would probably stretch a little longer on their budget to make the extra step and make a statement about their social status.

Like you said, SaraWI, probably the Accord owners are less excentric by nature and know and want a good deal. And it's not because you have a high income that you will automatically drive a high-end car. Jean Todt drives to work every day in his Fiat 500.

1SICKLEX

Hmmm, just an educated guess but it's kinda saying
1. The Honda guy is better trained with FInances. As he owns a house, has a degree, probably could get a 3 something but decided to save the money and get an Accord instead. So possibly the extra income saved from owning the Accord goes into investing, for a 7 series later.
2. The BMW person is more concerned with looks and APPEARING rich. Since they also think they dress better than most (which means they spend tons on clothes). Since cars are depreciating assets, they did not mention a house, they spend tons on clothes (probaby food too), well you have your average BMW Prick.

I noticed with people I know and my experiences, that M3 and 328/330 owners are usually cool and knowledgeable about cars. I noticed ther 323 and 325 owners are usually the pricks and don't know shit besides badges.

And you can make 54k a year and own a 70k vehicle if you have excellent credit and if you have no other monthly payments to like credit cards and other debt. And you don't plan on investing or saving for the future.

sleeper

kids/family lifestyle maybe? i don't see too many baby seats in 3-series... accords are better family cars i would think.

btw, from jd power report to "bmw are great cars" thread: yarrrr, it seems this here thread be hijacked!

sauceman

Makes sense

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

ES300 with a manual? How did you manage to get one of those. I didn't even know they made a manual ES300.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

You make some good points there, LEX.

I disagree about the car though. If you're making $54K a year, there is no way you would qualify for a $70K vehicle on your own. Even with an excellent credit rating a dealership would have to be foolish to grant a loan to someone who doesn't make at least 90% of the cars value. The only way you could pull this off is to demonstrate that you have other sources of income or if you get someone else to co-sign with you who has excellent credit as well and makes at least $100K.

Of course, that's my opinion, but maybe someone who is a finance person for a dealership could corroborate?

1SICKLEX

No, you make perfect sense. But I know a few Finance guys and they tell me all these stories of people living for their cars. Simply living beyond their means.
Sure they want to tell them to slow down but many Finance companies will take a chance as they don't care. The dealer wants to sell cars as well.
Or they may give the guy the loan but the company taking the chance gives a higher interest rate.
But I do agree with your post. It took great patience 8 years ago. I only wanted one car and 1 color combo. Manual, white/black leather, loaded. I searched for a year serious and by pure luck, found it on a lot just waiting for me. They were only made 92-94 when Lexus was trying to position the ES as a sports sedan (whatever!) With our research at Clublexus, we are looking at less than 500 made and 10% were in my color combo.
Took me a year in a half to find the white/black GS 400 I had.
Not sure what I want yet, so I'm back to the ES enjoying 1 less note. The LS-2 2005 GTO is calling me. WIth the rebates now offered and with my companies X-plan, I'm looking at under 30k for the 2004. I hope the 2005 doesn't change this situation.

bob shiftright

There are a lot of Federal employees in my neighborhood and they have been driving Benzes and Bimmers lately and I know how much they make 'cause it's all a matter of public record since it's on the GS scale. So the only way they could be buying these things is with second mortgages on their houses, which have appreciated to ridiculous levels over the last few years. All I gotta say about that idea is it's gonna get very interesting out here when the Boomers begin to turn 62 in 2007 and they all try to cash in their chips at once to retire to North Carolina!

Revenent

Holy toledo! A thread discussing Honda/Acura with BMW and Lexus, without it becoming a fanboy/flame thread!

Yay for intelligent people!

And 1SICKLEX is probably right. When I was shopping around for a car, the first thing people told me to get was a 3-series. And most of them were paying insane amounts for their car payments.

While I could just as easily have gotten the car and pay like $100/month (assuming I put the $28,000 like I did for the TSX), I just felt I didn't need to start young and have debts. So I took the "cheap" way out and bought a TSX with cash.

heyitsme

You don't have to admit that you're a fanboy, it's clear in your words. Same bs every fanboy claims. Even when American companies show improvement, for the fanboy it has to be some sort of fluke cause domestic buyers just don't care about problems. Honda buyers are very keen in sensing problems with their cars, acura buyers are especially sensitive, thats why they rank lower than honda right? Oh and acura is sportier than Honda so thats another reason acura is lower, cause sporty keen acura buyers sense problems very easily.

You know what, now I know why lexus has been on top for so long. All those older buyers, spending their hard earned money on non sporty bland old people cars. So sad they don't even know so many problems exist within their cars, or at least they are unaware of those problems existing.

Now that its clear older buyers don't even know problems exist within their cars, its clear why so many customers shifted to the toyota brand over the years from the domestics. Considering the toyota brand caters to an older audience, its obvious now why they rank so high year after year. Their buyers who switched brands for some reason, maybe it was toyotas exciting styling, or maybe they have no sense of sight and thought they were at the chevy dealer, they are old. Its clear, toyota is a fluke too now, their buyers are statistically older, their cars are not sporty, and their buyers are unaware of their surroundings.

heyitsme

He probably has a wife who says " oh no you're not buying that car" unlike that bmw commercial would have everyone believe. People who can afford these crazy lease payments will spend as much as necessary to portray the image they want.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Wow...my mom has an ES300 years ago and I never saw a manual. That's kinda interesting that they would position that car as a sport sedan though...

kenbiddulph

I'm not bashing Lexus at all, they make the most reliable cars in my opinion and it has been proven time and again to be a fact.

I AM pointing out that there is a REASON why a Buick LeSabre is more "reliable" than a Pontiac Grand Prix.

Its mostly due to the drivers being older and less well.. attentive towards their rides. Younger customers who buy more driver oriented cars (like a Grand Prix) will notice an engine noise more likely than an older one driving a Buick LeSabre. This is also partly due to the cars themselves. Buicks mask road feel, engine noise etc etc. Pontiacs have more input going to the driver and are not as insulated.

I am NOT bashing GM's quality, they have dramatically improved in some areas but they still have some catching up to do before they get my business.

So yes, I am a "fanboy" but I am an open-minded one that is trying to point out that there is far far more than meets the eye on these surveys.

Feel free to continue your comments. I'm immune.

heyitsme

So basically, you are going to ignore that lexus buyers are old and somehow point out that buick buyers are old, yet buick buyers are unaware, yet lexus buyers are aware. Lexus masks road feel, engine noise, vibration, etc, and its called luxury. Buick offering the same is called by you unreliability.

biker

The difference would be that in the Lexus the car maker does the masking in the Buick it's the driver that does the masking.

kenbiddulph

Bingo.

1SICKLEX

Dude, you have to be kidding all of us. So the GS/IS and original SC series are bland? And you think they don't KNOW that problems exist? You are borderline attacking the intelligence of these people.
Lexus never scored 0 on the survey, they have problems. Lexus just has the least amount of issues.
Lexus plants have scored the highest ratings for quality as well.
The dealerships score the highest customer satisfaction rates.
The cars are the most trouble-free.

Quite frankly, Lexus would not be Lexus if they were problematic or average in reliablity. More than anything, people know when they buy a Lexus they have the best chance of owning a relatively trouble free car.
Yes, it was postioned in ads and brochures as an entry level sports sedan. It fared well in every comparison and even scored on the 10 best list.
Clearly buyers DID NOT buy it for sportiness but refinement and luxury so Lexus responded where it now rides as cushy as a Cadillac and the interior is incredible for the price. I get sea sick driving an ES 330 loaner.

jcg878

Ever increasing debt for car purchases... crazy sh*t IMO.

That Accord/3-series driver demographic data is intriguing. I wonder if many of the 3-series lessees bring down the mean income level, and what they're mean income is

I've often wondered what true correlation there is between income and car prices. I'm willing to bet it's been skewed in the past 5-10 years. As sicklex has posted before, if the "average" new car price is $30k (I'm still waiting to see exactly what this figure is, since I think the average new car purchase is probably lower) then how the hell are so many people affording them??

phile

Couldn't agree more.