ostrich

... when I took my 05 TSX in for a 30,000 mile service. I could not believe it when she brought out a 2006 TL with nav as my loaner! I finally got to drive the TL for an extended period!

I was really excited initially. The difference in the power was noticeable, and I started to regret not getting the TL (I could have, but I didn't because I wanted something with folding rear seats). However, as the day went on, I noticed that the TL just did not have the same sharp reflexes that the TSX had. The steering felt much less precise and I didn't get the same response from the road. Then the driver's side door lock started to buzz like crazy on the freeway (is this an Acura trait!? LOL!). The biggest disappointment, however, was the sound system. I was so looking forward to enjoying the "premium" sound system - well, it turned out that I actually preferred the sound system of my TSX! I could not believe how tinny the sound was. It appeared as if it came through some sort of boombox and when the female voice of the navi spoke, she always gave me a SHOCK because she sounded so harsh and loud! My female voice in the TSX navi was, on the other hand, soft and warm. I attempted to make adjustments but it didn't make it better. I know that the TSX sound system was far from perfect, but the sound was much warmer and more natural.

Anyway, by the end of the day, what was my impression? The TL was a great-looking, extremely handsome car. It looked sportier than the TSX but it handled way less sporty than the TSX though. The interior design was great, but the fit and finish in the TSX was better. The sound system was extremely disappointing. Do I regret not getting the TL now? No, not really..... don't get me wrong, the TL is a wonderful car - I still love it, but I like my TSX better!

fuckleberry

nice review thanks

glott

agreed, i had a '06 TL loaner and it sucked. The handling was just awful and it really wasn't that "nice" compared to the tsx. The tsx comes off as just a better overall package.

mickey513

I receive a brand new 06 TL as a loaner also when I had the 06 tsx service. The car had 4 miles on it. IMO, the TL is a better car than the TSX. FIT, FINISH is BETTER than the TSX. The sound system is the same if not BETTER, there is a sub right in the middle of the rear passenge head. I have to admit the handling wasn't as good as the TSX but it wasn't no slouch either.

Overall, the car was very comfortable. I had the TL for 5 days and IMO, if the handling was a little better, it would be a better car than th TSX.

Have you every try knocking on the body panel of your TSX and notice the "HOLLOW SOUND" coming back. Well, you don't hear that with the TL, signs of a better built car.

2006CGPTSX

I too had a 06 TL loaner, and am glad I got the TSX. Do not get me wrong the TL is nice but I do not think it is worth the extra 6k or so over the price of the TSX.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I had a 05 TL as a loaner a few months back. After driving it for a full day, I was immediately reminded of why I didn't get it over the TSX.

driver centric

I have to disagree with this. Just standing in the dealership closing the doors of the TSX vs. the TL was a world of difference. If anything, the TL's doors sounded hollow and tinny when I closed them; the TSX doors, however, shut with a solid thunk. I think the fact that the TSX is made in Japan vs. the TL being made in Ohio has a lot to do with it.

Michael05

Truly bizarre. I had the same exact experience...took my '04 TSX in for service to Acura of Cleveland yesterday, and they gave me an '06 TL with navi. Were you at A of C? Motorcars? Park Acura?

I agree with just about every single one of your comments. The TSX seems to give more feedback than the TL, although I can see how people who like a slightly softer ride would prefer the TL over the TSX. Personally I like the way both of them ride and handle.

The TL they gave me had the ebony interior, and I'm used to a quartz interior...so maybe the different color had something to do with it. But the TL's interior seemed a little more confined and closed in. More buttons to play with on the center console, plus the full leather steering wheel and seats made the TL's interior seem more loaded and refined. When I got back into my TSX, the interior almost seemed spartan.

But at the same time, I was NOT impressed by the TL's instrument cluster. I prefer the TSX's white speedo much more than the TL's blue. The blue gauges made me feel like the TL was trying too hard to be a sporty and fun to drive sedan -- kinda the vibe of a Bonneville. I also thought the trip computer in the lower right of the instrument cluster was cheesy at best. They could've done a much nicer job with that.

I don't have XM in my '04, so the addition of that was a plus. But the '06 TL navi seemed virtually the same as my '04 TSX's. Maybe it was a hair quicker, and it had some newer roads/POIs (like Acura of Cleveland, which isn't even on my '04!). But overall it felt like the same exact thing. I too was very disappointed at the tinny sound of the navi voice. At first I thought something was wrong with it!

The lack of a fold-down rear seat is another minus. But it probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me, since my wife's car has a folding rear seat...and whenever we're hauling something that requires a folding seat, we always take her car so we don't mess up the Acura!

A few nice touches:

Overall the TL is a nice car. I understand why there are so many on the road -- because it appears to be a very good value for the money. Maybe sometime in the future, I'd consider a TL. But right now, I'm still loving the TSX.

Mokos23

Coincidentally, I also had an 06 TL w/Navi given to me when I had my 30K service and I had the same complaints especially with why when the Navi talks, why wasn't it incorporated with all the speakers and just that 1 speaker on the dash. Also, I tried, but couldn't figure out why you can't operate the AC and vent controllers on the Navi touch screen?? Also, is it just me, or why does the TSX a bit taller in stance than the TL? I guess it comes lowered as OEM?

But, of course I had an easier time and quicker to start the TL than the TSX. When you started the TL it sounded like my old 99 Accord Ex and of course the speed of the TL is much better than the TSX. Also, it is more roomier than the TSX, but that is a given.

The only things that the TL has over the TSX now are the DVD audio, engine, LED taillights, and more interior room.

ostrich

Michael, I was at the Motorcars Acura. I actually had a typo - mine was an 04 TSX too! I have never used Acura of Cleveland - were you happy with their service?

I actually bought my TSX at Park Acura - the internet sales person then (he has since left) was really nice and not pushy. He was also willing to deal too. However, I found the person I dealt with at Motorcars was way too pushy and sleazy. At one point, he was even rude. So I just walked out. That said, the Motorcars service people are very nice and appear to be knowledgeable.

I used the Acura of Cleveland coupon as Motorcars would honor it. BTW, how much was your 30K service? Mine was about $360 (minus the coupon).

Jeff The Pianist

we should post all of this on the TL forum....i wonder what would happen

driver centric

drunkenbuda

You already know what would happen. LoL

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Please don't...the intra-forum infighting has resulted in enough trouble in the past.

Michael05

I had mine in for 40K service yesterday, which I believe is the same as the 10K and 20K. Just bought the car about 6 months ago with 33K miles, so this was the first maintenance I've had done. (Didn't buy it in the Cleveland area.)

I paid $151.61 for the 40K service. The reason they gave me the loaner for a minor service appointment was because I also had both of the headlight assemblies replaced due to the condensation problem.

Both times I've been in Acura of Cleveland (the first time was to cut an extra ignition key shortly after I bought the car), I've been very impressed. Both when I dropped off my car and when I picked it up yesterday, there were 4 or 5 employees behind the counter! So one person was talking to me while another was writing down my driver's license number and insurance info for the loaner, and a third was getting the mileage from my TSX and getting the loaner ready. The level of service is extremely high. It was like that when I got the spare key cut too, so it's not just a one-time thing.

A of C has leather chairs, satellite TV, and WiFi with a few little workstations in the waiting area, along with a fridge stocked with beverages plus Starbucks coffee bar and one of those Otis Spunkmeyer cookie ovens. Pretty nice.

I'm not a fan of Motorcars. When I was shopping for my '04, I test drove a car there. Both the salespeople I talked to were condescending and not very helpful. Motorcars is probably slightly closer to me, but I choose to go to A of C because I feel more comfortable there. I've never dealt with the Motorcars service dept though, so they might be better than the sales department, as you suggest.

jaobrien6

And I definitely disagree with this. Let's ignore the point about whether Acuras assembled in Japan are of a higher build quality than Acuras assembled in the US. What you are describing here (a solid sound when closing the door) is a design issue, not a build quality issue. When a car has a heavier, more solid-sounding door, it's because someone on the design team put extra money into the materials and construction, to make sure the doors sounded solid when the are closed.

Do you really believe that being built in Ohio can affect this? Do you think the guy on the assembly line responsible for the sound deadening material in the TL just forgot to install it in or something??

driver centric

Are design and build quality not intrinsically related? Don't we say that a well-designed car and well-built car are essentially the same thing? The doors on the TL may not have been as well designed and/or built as the TSX. That is one of the exterior traits that is easily noticed by the average consumer and is often used as a quality indicator for other parts of the car that are not so easily tested or observed.

And FYI, I didn't just notice this on the particular TL sitting on the showroom floor when I purchased my TSX, it was observed previously in other TLs. I'm not saying the TL is a bad car by any stretch, but from my observations, it does not seem as well put together as the TSX.

I happen to think that might be because it's built in Marysville. I do firmly believe there is a difference in the quality of vehicle manufactured in the USA versus those produced in Japan, as do many other people.

Washington

I had a very similar experience. I was excited to get the TL for a day, but concerned that I might like it better the my TSX. Not a problem - I couldn't wait to get back my TSX. I actually think these two cars are very similar; the TL didn't seem any smoother, and was only quieter on certain surfaces where the stock TSX Michelins that everybody loves to hate simply scream. Acura adds a few cool items to the TL just to differentiate it a bit more from the TSX. The TXS is more fun to drive. The TL is better if you're moving four people.

BTW, Acura of Cleveland sounds a lot like Pikes Peak Acura, with whom I've been pretty impressed. I live 45 miles from PPA, but they have a service writer who lives in my community. When I make an appointment, he delivers a loaner to me and drives my car to the dealership, and returns it to me that night; no charge; he was even reluctant to accept a tip.

Washington

I'm not sure I agree with you, but you're right that a lot of people do. I'm wondering if that is part of the reason the TL is marketed in North America only. It's apparently easy to market a TXS anywhere in the world.

On the 2007 TL thread, posters are stating that the '07 TL will be sold in China. Wonder if it will be sold as a Honda?

curls

I'm actually very surprised that nobody here has mentioned the power difference between the two cars. How much faster (torquey) did the TL feel over the TSX?

That's where a lot of the $$ difference goes to IMO.

I'll still take a Honda I4 anyday though.

jaobrien6

IMO, no, they are not the same thing. You can have a car with good build quality that was *designed* to be inexpensive, and therefore won't have things like solid sounding doors. When I think about build-quality concerns, I think of things like rattles and seat rail problems (issues with the Japan-built TSX, for the record).

That may be true, and won't argue that point since I don't have any data to back up either side of the issue. My point is that I don't believe that how solid the door shuts should be used as a indicator of build-quality. By all accounts, Hyundai has greatly improved their build quality in recent years, but I bet the TSX door sounds a heck of a lot more solid than the Sonata (closest competitor to TSX, IMO). And that's because Hyundai saved money on the car by not focusing as much on things like that.

Just my opinion, I guess.

Michael05

It was quicker, no doubt about it. The TL felt very nice while stepping on the gas to merge onto the highway, definitely nicer than the TSX.

But I don't place a ton of importance on a quick car. If I wanted quick, I would've gotten a Lexus IS or something that's built more for speed. I might pay hundreds or maybe one thousand more for a little more power, but I wouldn't pay any more than that. Plus there's the fuel economy difference too. I consider the TSX to be a fuel sipper, not a fuel gulper. Didn't have enough time to judge the TL, but I'm sure it's not as fuel efficient.

driver centric

I see what you're saying. My past car (Scion xB) was like that. The doors were notoriously tinny, especially in the back, but the car was solid for pretty much the whole time I owned it aside from small things like rattles and the like. I think minor issues like that will plague cars no matter where they're built.

I guess I'm basing it on the overall "feel" of the car, something that you can't really express based solely as how things sound or fit together so much as the sense you have of how well a vehicle is put together by putting it through normal everyday use.

My Scion, despite costing about $4,000 less, was worlds better put together than the car it replaced, an American 4-door sedan whose make and model I will not mention.


I don't have that data either, it's just my opinion from the observations I've made after driving and riding in vehicles manufactured in both countries. The door sound isn't the only indicator of quality, but for me, it's a nice affirmation that my car has solid design and engineering behind it. If corners may be cut in something as simple as sound deadening in the doors, where else have they been cut in places not so readily apparent?

Doesn't really matter I guess, as long as we're satisfied driving what we're driving.

jaobrien6

Amen.

xenonhid

My main reason why I didnt get the TL was....

The rear end design.........That was the first thing I saw and I didnt like the rear end of it. Besides that, TL is an awesome car!

Black_6spd

Too bad no dealers around SoCal / OC give TL loaners.

Around here, you'll be lucky to have a smelly shuttle ride.

jlukja

Not quite. Here's my story....

I took my 04 TSX in for service back in May (Cerritos Acura). I made the appointment by phone and made a point of scheduling it for a day they had a loaner available. When I dropped off my TSX the service advisor didn't want to give me the loaner, he said they don't give loaners for routine maintenance that takes one day or less. I pointed out to him that I had no way of getting home and that I confirmed the loaner when I made the reservation. He finally relented, told me the guy who made the appoitment was new and didn't know about their policy. So, I got an 04 TL to take home for a day.

My impressions of the 04 TL..... Feels bigger and less nimble than the TSX. The sound system didn't impress (I have the Avincar upgrade) but the interior was quieter, especially at freeway speeds. I like the TSX gauge cluster better. The power improvement was certainly noticeable but the DBW lag/delay is no better or worse than the TSX (still annoying). The steering wheel seemd too small for some reason. I don't have a Navi on my TSX so the TL Navi was fun to play with. It got confused a couple of times showing me on a parallel street. My wife got tired of the voice in a hurry, asked me to turn it off because it got annoying. The tilt down rear view mirrors were nice but I didn't like the blue tint on them.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the 2007 TL will be sold in China as an Acura. Honda is going to introduce the Acura brand to the Chinese market with the TL and RL initally and possibly expand from there.

waTSX

I don't know why dealers are such hard-asses about loaners. The svc dept I go to is the same way. No TL's here, just AT-equipped TSX's, but they're stingy as hell with them.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Because it is a cost to them. They don't want to offer them to people who aren't paying enough money to get stuff done. Plus, the way people treat loaner cars, it's no surprise that some places are a little reluctant to let them off the lot...

jlukja

He told me he only has a limited number of loaners and he needs them available for customers who are having work done that takes multiple days. I take issue with that because my appointment was predicated an having one available to begin with. However, I can see his point. My car was in for regular service (oil change plus). If all oil change customers got a loaner they would need a much bigger pool of cars. And, what GC said above is true. People don't treat loaners very well so the depreciation on those cars is tremendous over 2-3 years. I could have easily had my wife drive a second car with me and then drop me off again the next day. I've done that before. I feel like I got away with something because I was able to get that TL loaner. I wanted to test drive one anyway to see what, if anything, I was missing out on, which is why I kinda pushed the issue with the service advisor. I did fill it back up before returning it.

And, I sort of paid for it by having them "break" my modded TSX key. I guess it wasn't free after all.

waTSX

^^OK, what you and CG say about loaners make sense, but dealers make a big point of advertising "service loaners for life" and all this hooey, but really they have pretty narrow parameters for actually giving them out.

It's a little misleading if you ask me. Oh, and filling the tank on the TL was mighty generous of you.

Michael05

One of the conditions for getting my loaner last Friday was that I had to return it with at least as much gas as they gave me. I ended up putting 4 gallons in it because I took the really long way from work to the dealership, just so I could drive it more.


Exactly! There is no such thing as a free lunch. You always end up paying for something in the long run.

The Lexus dealer next door to my Acura dealer not only gives its customers free loaners, but they also do door-to-door service. When your car is due for service and you set an appointment, they'll send a guy to your home or office in a loaner, leave the loaner with you and take your car back to the dealership for service, then return it when they're done.

But...here's the kicker...they build that cost into the price of the car. That's one of the reasons you pay more for a Lexus than an Acura, ceteris paribus.

STEELTOWN

The dealers around here do the same thing for free, the only stipulation being you have to make the appt at least three weeks in advance and they will come pick your car up, drop the loaner, etc...

Mockenrue

My Acura dealer is really good about loaners. They practically insisted that I take one the night before I picked up my car for the first time. I didn't even need it, but she said I should. Also, when I took my car in to look at a tire that was losing air, I didn't even have to ask for one... they asked me if I wanted one, even though it was only for part of one day. They also said they could drive me somewhere if I wanted. Good service indeed!

junktionfet

I think the whole Japan vs American workmanship thing is a pretty old myth. Today it doesn't mean much IMO, as it is more of a brand issue, not a nationality issue.

I have had a number of stupid fit-and-finish problems with my Japanese-built TSX already, whereas a friend of mine with an Ohio-built TL hasn't even had a bulb fail yet.

I'm sure that if Chryslers were manufactured in Japan, they would have just as many recalls and other stupid problems as the ones made in Canada.

bacampbe

My wife decided she wanted to replace her 99 Integra GS-R a VW MkV GTI. But we could not find one with the options she wanted. We were already talking numbers on an Audi A3. We really wanted to buy an Acura (I had previously bought an 88, an 89, and the 99 teg from the same dealer), but she did not much care for the RSX, and was not in the market for a sedan. Basically, we thought Acura did not have anything interesting in our price range anymore.

Then we took her Integra to the Acura dealer for a timing belt change, and some miscellaneous repairs to get it ready to sell. They put us in an 05 TSX AT for a couple of days.

When we went back to pick up the Integra, we bought an 06 MT NAV on the spot.

I don't think that loan car cost them any money at all :-)

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Your situation would be the exception to the rule. They generally are required to take cars out of their sellable inventory to provide the loaners and so any car they can't sell is a cost to them. However, in your case, they were able to make a sale off of it, which is of great benefit to them.

They do need to find that balance point between the cost of providing the loaners and the potential sales when they lend them out to individuals like yourself.

rpcmx

Yeah, well, I think if Acura wants to pass themselves off as a brand with the same kind of service (and by that, I mean all kinds of services) as other luxury brands, they should at least trot out some of that stuff.

The Mercedes dealer my family goes to at home offers the same drop-off and pick-up loaner service, and the loaners are normally C-class or M-class cars with CD players (automatics, of course). Once, we had a Toyota Corolla as a loaner and it snowed; they offered to drive a C240 4MATIC (all wheel drive) down to our house.

I'm not saying that I want my dealer to do all of that, but still: they couldn't find the car I wanted, I had to travel to go get it form another dealer I'm never going to patronize again, and because of that, my local dealer in Atlanta refuses to give me loaners. I worked with them for weeks, and they just couldn't get the car in the timeframe I needed it (in November, they said March; I needed it before then).

On top of that, the dealer I bought the car from said I would have the car Dec. 22, and it didn't show up until Jan. 2. In the meantime, I had to continue to drive my car, of course; I said I would drop off the car and take a loaner, and they said no, and then tried to devalue my trade by $800 for the extra miles (that would be like $2 a mile). I balked, naturally, and they backed off.

After I bought my car, I got an irate phone call from a sales manager literally yelling at me because she thought the phone review I gave American Honda wasn't good enough.

What I mean by all this is: how does Acura expect to be taken seriously if their dealers act crazy? Rules for this and rules for that... it would do wonders for their reputations if dealers schmoozed a little better. Their product is already heads above the competition; add good dealer service to that and that's everything.

(Have a service appointment tomorrow, obviously. They made it clear I would be waiting.)

-rpc

Washington

The poor service at the Mercedes dealer is one reason I didn't consider their car when I was buying. When my neighbor, a regular customer and a high-roller, got to talking about them, he was almost foaming at the mouth, he was so mad. Seems he couldn't get the glove box open, and they wouldn't just let him bring it in to see if they could get it open - he had to make an appointment and was going to have to leave it for the day. His question to them: What the heck am I supposed to do if I get pulled over by the police? I can't get to my license or registration?

Quality of dealerships, at least according to this thread, varies quite a bit region-to-region.