evo_to_tsx

Would you guys buy it if Honda/Acura makes one?

bmui1561

Yes if it had just as much or better performance as the present ones.

JKV808TSX

with the gas pricing now and climbing.. maybe...but if i plan to mess with whats under the hood.. maybe not. but then again... I already have my TSX.. I wouldn't trade her for anything else after all the money Ive spent on it..

evo_to_tsx

Seeing how the Hybrid Accord V6's have more power than the regular ones, I think its totally doable by honda

I just wanted to see if there is a market for it.. thanks

tracerit

misleading title!

evo_to_tsx

hehe sorry.. should had changed it to "Hybrid TSX - would you buy one?"

sauceman

In a heartbeat.

jpt

Maybe... we're talking an extra $3k price tag at least, partially offset by a tax credit, but it would definitely add a nice shot of low-end torque. But I'd rather see the CTDi they put in the EDM accord if I were looking for fuel economy.

moda_way

Nope. Most hybrids put low friction tires (crappy performance characteristics), crappy stereo (not that the current TSX is amazing, but better than a 120w system in the Hybrid), and the cost of the car spread over 5 yrs with comparison of gas savings barely closes the gap for it being worth it for getting a one-time $2k tax savings.

If we had an infrastructure that supported Hydrogen fuel, I'd sign up instantly.

wndrlst

All other amenities equal to those currently offered, yes. Definitely.

jpt

Heh. What about a CAR that supported hydrogen fuel?

LuvMyTSX

Yup, if the price is the same. Even better, how about a diesel TSX! I'd definitely go for diesel.

jpt

Go to England and import one. They offer the Accord with a 140hp, 250lb-ft, 2.2L turbodiesel that gets 33/52 mpg. It woulda been awesome if they'd made like VW and brought it here.

LuvMyTSX

Europe gets all the good stuff.

jpt

And all the hot women

moda_way

Whereas diesel prices are lower in Europe in comparison to regular Petrol, it is the opposite here. Diesel, at least in my area, is the same as premium. Sure you get the added benefit of some mileage, torque and cost per mile for fillup, but the difference over the course of the month, even if it were saving you 2 fillups per month (doubtful), thats $80 per month. That's a break-even in my opinion.

I've stated this before in a Civic Hybrid vs TSX thread that you'd save a ton more money (assuming this is the driver) by buying a Civic DX than you would be to go hybrid. We'd all agree though, we want more luxury and sportiness (if that's even a word). The pump is a sacrifice most of us are willing to take each week.

moda_way

When I owned my 89 325i, I planned on writing to BMW and offering my car as a realistic test platform to become a hydrogen car, so heck yeah. I'd buy a hydrogen car (again infrastructure being paramount) over any other fuel alternative.

Benz_05_TSX

iTrader: (1)

I will...if it has more power... and something about hybrid and performance just doesn't seem right together...

Ellas9

Depends on the price!!!!

Accord V6 Hybrid is not worth the fuel savings if you drive 25K per year. Plus, I like having a decent sized trunk. But, if the price was right, I would love to have a free low rpm 30 lb./ft torque boost from the electric motor.

goddsmack

Hydrogen fuel as a combustion engine? Or an electric engine? Typically, the hydrogen cars they are testing are electrical vehicles that utilize the dissassociation of electrons when pure H2 combines with oxygen present in the air, the electron create electricity. However, they are all hand built and cost currently no less than 1 milliion dollars per vehicle. Plus, they ain't available for the mass market yet and probably won't be until maybe like after 2010.

I got a chance to ride in one a couple months back. They are amazingly strong off the line, but still in development phase. Toyota is the only one that has a really nice hydrogen fuel cell vehicle made from a Highlander. The rest of them were these small butt ugly cars. The biggest problem that plague the technology is infrastructure and the fact that they don't get very far with one tank fill. I remember I was talking with the Toyota rep and he mentioned that he only gets in the range of 200 miles with one tank. That's a highlander, I can only imagine how much a smaller BMW would get.

If any of you live near Sacramento, CA, take a one day tour of the California Fuel Cell Partnership, it's really a good learning experience and it's free. Plus, the public affairs chick in front desk lady is freakin'' hotttttt!!!! and makes it worth it.

http://www.fuelcellpartnership.org/index.html

moda_way

Hot chicks always make for good marketing.

[cough cough]shh, don't tell my wife. LOL

I completely understand the time table of hydrogen power, but I'm not falling for the marketing of Hybrid cars either. If I traveled 100% open highway everyday, okay, yeah, maybe it might make sense. But just like I don't want to burn used cooking oil in my car, I don't want to tote around battery packs either. If I were that concerned about fuel, I'd take a bus. I do love the cylinder shut off method too, but again, how many of us travel flat or down hill both ways at a constant speed anymore? It just isn't worth it.

iamhomin

I don't think so. I'd rather get the Accord Hybrid if the TSX ever came out with a hybrid version.

If the TL or RL came out with Hybrids, then I'd seriously consider one (if I am in the market for one).

Alin10123

I dunno... first off... they almost never get anywhere close to the mileage that they state. 2nd... they cost quite a bit more than a regular engine. So... if you do the math... take away the tax deduction that's going away in 07... you actually end up paying much more for a hybrid than you do just using up more gas.

bradykp

i'd sign up for a diesel. hybrid's are bringing technology along, but they really do not accomplish much. you can get better gas mileage in a diesel. good to see alternatives out there though to help reduce our dependence on oil.

bradykp

if you drive a lot, the diesel savings go a long way. yes, the prices are the same as premium right now, but the mileage is easily 1.5x better on most models. i'd take a diesel in a heartbeat!

bradykp

i think people are too caught up in $$$ when talking about gas vs hybrid (or even diesel for that matter).

it's not only about cost savings. there are intangibles that people who buy these cars also care about, such as...the environment????!

sauceman

But watch out for the flames. You'll be called a tree-hugging hippie for that.

Funny, I'm as opposite as can be from those people (hippies), but if I can save the environment some pollution, I'll make sure to give it a little effort.

Diesel-hybrid will be the next big thing. Now that low-sulfur diesel is arriving on the market in the US, we will see many more diesel engines arrive here. The fuel won't be so tough on emissions-control parts anymore. The law requires that manufacturers warrant emissions-control parts much longer than a classic warranty will go, and so far it just wasn't worth it for many carmakers.

moda_way

I have family in Oradell, NJ and all I know is, you'll sit in traffic with a diesel just as much as you would with a gasoline motor. I'm not sure that 1.5x better is acurate, but I understand what you are getting at.

moda_way

Definitely not going to flame you about caring for the environment, but I will say that you are right in saying some people buy hybrids for the intangibles. I would choose an alternative fuel if it was readily available like gasoline and I would even consider paying a bit more for it if it mean helping out the environment. Basically, if there is little impact to my car's performance and it saves the envirnoment, I'm all in.

Ellas9

A car that runs perfectly and has a near perfect cat has next to no bad emissions. But, I hear you. I was watching some CNN recently and found that in Brazil they are almost ready to put all internal combustion engines on tap to run off pure agriculture ethenol - with economies of scale its cheaper, more efficient and better for the environment.

If people reduced, reused and recycled with what they buy, drive and use, I think we could save 15-40% of energy costs (not just $$$) depending on prior behaviours.

jpt

Peugeot/Citroen has a diesel out that uses cylinder shutoff as well as completely stopping the engine when you idle but is not a hybrid. They get incredible mileage city and highway.

What they don't get, by the way, is power: people clamoring for a 300hp TSX should not be asking for diesels, hydrogen, or more fuel efficiency in general.

jpt

Brazil doesn't use ethanol because of "economies of scale." They use ethanol because land and labor are CHEAP AS SHIT over there. When (if?) their economy and standard of living grow to European or American standards, they'll be using gasoline (or whatever else is available) like everyone else.

foolioness

Many European and Asian countries are using these bio deisel as alternative energy because they're relatively cheaper than oil.. DaimlerChrysler (India) is currently developing bio deisel engine by utilizing jatropha oil. In german, palm oil... (I think is the word in English.. =P), etc.... loss in HP but gain in TQ (if I'm not mistaken) In short, they're everywhere... except in the US. GM is the first company in the US that uses an alternative fuel. The ethanol 85 for soncumer and hydrogen fuel for military. My question is.... how come the US still stuck with the idea of gasoline?? when we have other alternative? Where in my area fuel is already surging to $2.99 / gallon and that's only 87 oct.... (sorry suppose to be an informative comment, ended up bursting in flame... )

moda_way

FYI, hydrogen is DAMN efficient, just DAMN expensive too as there is no production based automobile at the moment.

I also agree about people wanting major horsepower and a diesel; the two don't really go together.

Spy

One of the car magazines (Road & Track I think) recently had an article about hybrid cars vs. their normal counterparts. To offset the price, most of the cars you would have to drive 90,000-100,000 miles. Not to mention the batteries would need replacement around 8-10 years (if you keep it), and costs for that can be around $8000. Hows that going to affect resale.

slo007

BMW has a 5-series hydrogen prototype. It looks really nice, and the system works well. Now about the price....

bradykp

you should check out greasecar.com

a friend of mine did this and claims it had minimal effect on performance. i don't believe him though.

bradykp

what hybrid batteries cost $8,000? the most expensive i've seen was $1,500, and as hybrids become more readily available, the prices of those will come down significantly. and i think many of us drive 90,000-100,000 miles on a car. i've had my tsx since the end of december and just hit 6,000, so i'm almost 10% there.

bradykp

ok, i'm definitely not an environmentalist, but i'm starting to sound like one....i once read that if america recycled all of the aluminim it bought, the annual savings in energy would be enough to power a city the size of pittsburg. aluminum is one of the easiest things to recycle, but takes a lot of energy to initially produce.

currently, hybrids don't make enough of an impact financially, which is what most people bring up when talking about whether they are worth it. the people i know who drive hyrbrids....that is of no concern to them, because of the intangibles. and now, with gas prices the way they are, i think it's much easier to make your money back. a friend just bought the highlander hybrid, which is approx $6,000 more than the regular counterpart. he got $2,000 back in taxes, and saves about $30 per week in gas. that means it will take him 2.5 years to break even at the current price of gas (which is also increasing more this summer).

moda_way

Yeah, I don't feel like having to refine my fuel at the house.

Guess the saying would now be, "The only thing the car can't pass up is a fast food shop."