Hey...I used to be GM guy... (Oldsmobiles)...
So onto the guages... you'll get used to them in a matter of days...maybe a week or two at most. I kinda frequent my speedo and I have no problems seeing how fast I'm going..all it takes is just a really quick glance... In fact...I think it's easier on the TSX cause the MPH numbers are soo huge and separated. I drove an Impala for a few weeks (rental) and it went by 10MPH intervals...and were cluttered together. With the TSX, the markers are nice and spread apart and I can locate my speed alot faster.

The max of the speedo is ok. I used to drive an '88 Olds and it only went to 85!! I swear I was going to break the needle cause it couldn't go past 85!! All speedos SHOULD reach the max speed of the car...at a minimum... Definately will be used for all those who track their cars...

Digital speed readouts suck... Uncle had it on his Lincoln and I hated it... Then again, I think that might be an age thing... I just like having an analog speedo so I can guage my acceleration/deceleration by checking needle movement instead of having to read the number.

Lettering on shift gate is fine...you're also able to see where you are on your guage cluster as well. Plus you'll get the feel for it and be able to shift without worrying about it in a matter of hours. You just have to get a feel for it.

Buttons on steering wheel...I've got it memorized in a matter of days. Again, you just have to get used to it. Otherwise, get the 05 model.

Hope that helps.

 

yep - standard in rural parts of the country; drove in the midwest and southwest in my youth; blinking the highs was a way to "remind" the oncoming driver that the highs were on. Usually, given as flat as it was, you did that from 'way back. Driving in the city and in the urban mid-Atlantic, I use my highs about 5% of the time.

 

1/beehive: The car's wheel telescopes and tilts; the telescoping capability is greater than most cars. I'm 6'-2", and it took me about a week of determined testing to get the "exact" setting that provided me with optimal comfort. I don't hit my knees. I would agree with other postings that driving an at car with both feet is really risky. (Have used the left foot in an at only when my right foot was in a cast.)

2/tach: I drive as much by the tach as the speedo, since much of my driving is in the city; even on the road, my impulse is to review the tach first. Actually, I've applied the "scan" technique acquired in speedreading to scan the control panel and absorb both tach and speed info simultaneously. I think the tach/speedo arrangement is pretty standard

3/Speedo: I confess a speedo that goes to 160 speaks of hubris, but - it's a sporty sedan. I've rapidly adjusted to the dial's calibrations, took about three days of driving. As for driving the speed limit, if I drove the speed limit on the freeways that I am on most of the time, I would be mowed down........ I drive the prevailing speed, which in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, varies between the speed limit and 90 mph. I've taken the car to 110; hardly do that routinely, but driving at speeds well above posted comes with the turf on - 1-95, the GSP in New Jersey, the NJ Turnpike, the PA Turnpike........

4/HID: The cut of the lamps on low is set to not blind oncoming drivers; a couple of posts have noted that if you get the blinking light response while driving with "lows", you can get the lights recalibrated. I've driven my car extensively at night for the last two months, and have not had any "blinkie" messages. I find the HID lighting radically improves my capacity to drive at dusk and night. I'll never have a car without HID's again. I believe the safety factor can be measured in accident avoidance.

5/Compass: Buy one and glue it to the dash, or spring for the navi. I frankly find them a distraction while driving, but..........

6/Unlit wheel controls; Wait until the '05 and your wishes will come true. My last car had lit wheel controls, lit window controls and lit pretty much everything else, and the car's interior looked like a damn christmas tree rolling down the road. After about a week of night driving, I got to "know" the controls cleanly. I'm all for intuitive driving, I prefer to drive by touch/control rather than visually noting the control before I manipulate it, since I really prefer to keep my eyes on the road. To that end, the size, positioning and lighting of the controls makes this car simplicity to drive -

7/Lettering on the shiftgate: just another distraction, IMHO. I adapted to the specifics of the shiftgates on my 5at in a few days.

8/digital readout: Actually takes more time to absorb the information from a digital than a dial, which is why the digital has never caught on. I think they're actually unsafe, as they require more time to absorb information than a dial.

9/HID: No way!

Since I am well over the "market demographic" for this car, I would note that this is a driving enthusiast's car accompanied by a well-appointed interior. If you want some of the amenities you are describing, go look at the TL, which provides that big car feel, lots of low-speed surge power, and less fun for - in the order of things, not a heck of a lot more money.

Missing from your commentary are:

Side-bolstered seats are the best I've seen short of aftermarket racing seats

The interior storage fitout is generous and reasonably thoughtfully arranged

The cupholders work, but disappear visually when you don't have someone slobbering Starbucks all over the interior

The ergonomics of the interior make the dash and the controls (with or without navi) one of the simplest, most easily "read" and used out there, sports sedan or not.......... This car is a pleasure to drive on long distances because focus remains on the road and traffic, not the dasboard controls. To that end, the size of the tach and speedo combined with the lighting contribute to the driving experience.

I actually find the level of seat/wheel adjustment to be great for my tall frame. I note that my 6'-5" 300 lb fullback stepson can drive this thing with a few fiddling around adjustments.

If you want to look for "Japanese" influence, you can find it in the tasteful, thoughtful and "not busy" interior wich is not tarted up to look like some thirdrate Nevada bordello, as has been the custom in Detroit, thought they are backing away from it. The Germans tend to desight really "techy" interiors that IMHO get busy and fussy very quickly. I am sure some will take offense at that, but I've driven a few German cars, and find that they tend to obsess over the technical/visual "aesthetic to a fault (only exception is the Audi TT interior, which has to be one of the best design exercises for an interior out there, sadly not matched by the Audi interiors, IMHO)

I found the car to be an incredible matrix of driving pleasure due to the crisp handling, limited understeer, responsive engine and comfortable interior. You're getting a lot of heat because you're questioning a lot of relatively modest design issues on a site dominated by folks who own the car and love it (me included). I would suggest that if you take your criteria for driving to the range of other cars that are competitive with the Acura TSX,you will find your driving experience to be filled with disappointment. Few other cars with a sports sedan "intent" can match the Acura across the board, and certainly not at the price.

 

Jim,

You sound like a good man and were just asking a few basic questions.
It's sad some have to jump all over you like junior high school students for doing so. They'll grow up.

Have you tried the Honda Accord EX V6?

If not give it a try. The TSX is a great little sport sedan with top levels of fit and finish, but sounds like maybe you need something with a bit more room.
The Honda Accord has a HUGE speedo by todays standard.
It's V6 easily outpowers the TSX's 4 cylinder, and it's very smooth.

HID lights are bright, and if not adjusted properly by the dealer or owner, they can shine bright enough to look like the high beams are on. Just don't look at them. But HID's are safer because they project light further, cleaner, clearer, and just plain light up the road better.

Speedo need to go over the posted speed limits. You are obviously a law abiding citizen when it comes to driving. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you practice courtesy by not driving in the "fast" lane at the "speed limit" Sounds like an oxymoron, but the "fast" lane is pretty much for people who drive 10 mph+ above the speed limit.
And you have to remember, many of these cars are sold in other parts of the world that don't have speed limits. And many people take their cars to drag strips and race tracks to see how they'll do. Therefore, they need to have speedo that go above 100 mph even.

As others have said, tachs are usually always on the left. The reason yours is on the right is because it's a Pontiac. Who knows why Pontiac does have the things they do. That's just another reason they are referred to as Ponti-crap.

True a built in compass is common now on the rearview mirror. It's a nice touch, the TSX should have it on the non NAV models.

The lettering on the auto shift gate has NO need to be larger. Again, you are used to that Ponti-crap with the large ugly looking letters. You've been driving for longer than I've been alive, and automatic trannies have always been Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive, then the lower gears.
There's no need to look down to see a letter, you should know that by feel or count the indents as you move the shifter down or up.

Digital speedos over the decades as ALWAYS proven untrustworthy. They are just not as accurate.
The tried and true dial is far superior.

HUD is also a product of digital readouts with mirrors that reflect that info onto the windshield.
Again, untrustworthy and has proven unpopular and distracting.
It's safest to drive WITH the speed of traffic anyway. A glance down at a dial from time to time if you find you are passing people is all you need to do. If you are on an open road by yourself and fear you might creep up in speed, set the cruise control.

But seriously, the TSX is a great car. Don't take the advice of the person who told you to move your seat back as far as you can and still drive. The "kids" like to look all ghetto and cool now by doing that and reclining their seat like if they are about to take a nap.
You shouldn't be so close to the steering wheel that you do risk injury from the airbag, but you should be so far back to where your arms are stretched out straight either.
I used to drive professional, and like any professional driver will tell you, for best control of the car and steering wheel, your arms need to be bent a little at the elbows when holding the steering wheel in the 10 - 2 positions. Even if you drive one handed, as most of us do, your arm should NOT be extended out straight, you do not have the ability to move the steering wheel as quickly and accurately all the way around that way. Sit back far enough so your arms are slightly bent.

Lastly, go look at the Honda Accord EX too. I think it maybe a better car for you, if you want more power than the TSX get the V6, if you want more, get the 4 banger.

Good luck.

 

I'm not sure how much different an Accord buyer from a TSX buyer is, but you are getting a pretty good idea of the TSX buyer from this site. It just happens that your issues have not bothered others on the site - hence the reason for a somewhat casual dismisal of them. You might ridicule some of the issues brought up by others.
Driver72 has some good comments in his post.

 

Jim,

To me, this seems like a perfect case study on marketing. Basically, markets are segmented into groups according to certain criteria, such as age, gender, income, lifestyle, etc.

To make this short, you don't seem to belong to the target market for which the TSX is targeted. The TSX is basically a compromise between lluxury amenities and sportiness which is demanded by the current market segment. The "sportiness" aspect appears to be where you have the most of your concerns about the car.

For your own benefit, perhaps you should consider a car that is more labelled a "family sedan" than a sport sedan?

You say you drove a GTO in the past... I'm certain the new one would make you weep:



My $0.02.

 

Jim....Have you noticed that you never once said how old you are, but everyone guessed correctly just by what you wrote and the tone of your responses? We all know you are from a completely different generation that the rest of us. The things that you are whining about are just not things that we care about. I guess we are "aggressive" drivers because we actually go faster than 65 once in a while, and actually like our HID lights and the way they look, and sit far enough back in our car to avoid injury from the airbag, etc. etc.... Maybe because of one old man's concern, Honda can go ahead and fill all of our cars with completely pointless crap....say a huge red light on the dash accompanied by a loud beep as you approach 65... and what the hell...just electronically limit the engine at 65 so everyone in the world can drive as slow as you do in the left lane. Lord knows there is NEVER a reason to go over that speed, since you never have one. You sound like a well educated man, and as I have often found with other "book smart" people, you don't seem to have much common sense. Is it really that hard to comprehend that things change and millions of other, younger people (the targets for the TSX) want completely different things than you? I'm only 26 years old and I have seen many things change just since I left high school. I could be like you and get angry, annoyed, and tell all the younger people how much better it was back in my day....but instead I try to be open minded and ACCEPT that times change. Either go back and find yourself another POS pontiac, or get the TSX and get used to the higher quality, refinement, and resale value that all of us here are already accustomed to.

 

Oh yeah... and those things you are talking about are not areas to improve the car in most of our opinions... the TSX is exactly what I want my car to be in every way...Acura made practically the perfect car for me with this one. I love it.....now just need to get a supercharger...lol

 

I just logged on and found some excellent replies. Thanks, fellows.

McGriddle, the GTO dials provides a beautiful example of what I consider a good layout. It appears that the tach is a little smaller than the speedometer. But, more importantly, the white circles around the dials and the manner in which they overlap causes the speedometer to ascend to the foreground and the tach to rescind to the background, directly behind the speedometer. Then, the other two gauges, temp and fuel, rescind either further into the background. A 3-D effect is clearly produced.

I did considered a new GTO as well as the GTP and GT2. However, I do not want a gas guzzler at this stage in my life. I also found the GTO short on styling and I could not get over the fact that a 32K+ car does not have a remote gas cap release (not even as an option). In addition, the Pontiac salesman showed little interest in selling me a car. The GT2 produces too much engine noise under hard acceleration; especially when on a steep hill.

I decided that economy and the ability to handle the mountains gave the edge to the TSX -- not to mention the better quality materials used in the interior of the TSX. The size, suspension, and powertrain of the TSX makes it an excellent choice for the mountains.

I have also grown accustomed to the handling of the Grand Am with the Quad 4 engine. When driving the TSX, it felt more like a refinement of the Grand Am than anything else that I drove. I am constantly shifting the AT in the Grand Am, so I found the Sport Shift (Pontiac calls it Tap Shift) to be a terrific idea. I would much rather use the engine, rather than the brakes, to retard my speed going into a curve and I also like being in a lower gear after the apex of the curve; especially with a FWD that pulls rather than pushes. There seems to be a declining interest in FWD, but I consider FWD with Traction Control to be ideal for snow, ice, and mountain curves if only two wheels can be pulling (or pushing). It feels much more sure footed to me than RWD.

The one thing I would change on the Sport Shift is the direction -- but, like everything else on the car that seems a little illogical to me, I will get used to it.

Pontiac seems to have lost their way and, as a consequence, they have seen a sharp drop in sales this year. They have discontinued the Grand Am in 2005 -- it is to be replaced by the G6 (I know, sounds like a Mazda). They trout it as a European Sedan. I understand that it is to be a RWD with an option for AWD.

And, the last major factor is the resale, or trade-in, value. I have seen some of the GM cars drop 50 percent in the first year. Now that I have the TSX on order, do not care to work on my cars any longer, and will be putting less than 8-10K miles on a car each year, it is much more likely that I will be interested in trading for a current model in four or five years.

While there are "target markets," there is also much overlap. I understand that Honda designed the Element for the youth market. Yet, the Honda salesman told me that the vast majority of the customers buying the Element were over 35. I now realize that I am clearly not the typical customer for the TSX -- no more than I would be the typical customer for a V8 Mustang. But, I find the TSX to be the best choice when I consider all the options. Furthermore, my wife loves the "looks" of the TSX. We may very well end up with two of them. And, then we may trade both, in about 10 years, for a Caddy, an Odyssey, or a Town Car -- or something along those lines. Life progresses in stages, until it gets derailed at around 40-45 (mid-life crisis) and then has to recover. Perhaps I am experiencing my second mid-life crisis.

 

Wait... so you're saying that it's either hit your knees on the "beehive" or "ghetto lean?" Because really, I didn't see one single post where someone suggested to this man to lean as far back as possible in the car. They said move it back a safe distance from the airbag and so you don't hit your knees all the time. No one suggested he "lay down" in the car. We're not all "ghetto" people here. I think he meant put your seat as far back as possible and still drive safely. I don't think he'd suggest anyone do something unsafe. And the "ghetto" leaning you're referring to also involves reclining the seat, which no one made any mention of at all.

And Jim, just because you got into the habit of left-foot braking in San Fran doesn't make it safe. You live in NC now, anyway.

And like I said before, flashing someone with their brights on is never a good idea, commonplace or not. It blinds you both. How about this: we all pay attention to what we're doing and turn our brights off when a car's coming. Is it really that hard that we need to be reminded?

Oh, and one more thing, Jim. Have you looked at the TL? It may be a little more your style. It's a little bit bigger and such.

 

Wait... WTF? You say you like the GTO cluster but complain that the TSX's speedo goes above 100 mph?!?!?! The GTO's speedo goes to 200 mph! That's 200! That, to put things into correct perspective, is over 3 times the legal speed limit most places.

I'm not certain that I understand your argument at this point. By the way, I think that Pontiac's layout for their GTO's cluster is completely off for a performance car. There is no reason why the tach should be smaller than the speedo. I would argue that most enthusiasts would prefer the tach to be much larger than the speedo. Just take the Mitsu Evo as a case in point. When you have a performance car, you tend to watch the tach, not the speedo. Of course, the TSX has equally-proportioned tach and speedo, which is likely a perfect chocie for a sport-oriented (but not truly enthusiast like an Evo or STi) sedan.

Anyway, good luck in your choice of cars...

 

Nicodemus, that is not the way I read the post. I believe he was saying that that is what the "kids" think is cool.

[QUOTE=Nicodemus]Wait... so you're saying that it's either hit your knees on the "beehive" or "ghetto lean?" Because really, I didn't see one single post where someone suggested to this man to lean as far back as possible in the car. They said move it back a safe distance from the airbag and so you don't hit your knees all the time. No one suggested he "lay down" in the car. We're not all "ghetto" people here.

-------------------------------

I finally realize where I got into the habit of using left foot for braking. I didn't realize that it was so unusual because it is completely natural to me.

Years before I had my first automobile, I had motorcycles. At the time, the brake pedal was on the left side and the gear shift was on the right side. When I started driving cars, the practice stuck with me. It prevented me, on one occasion, from running over a young lady that was stretched out in the middle of the road because of the reduced reaction time (I was traveling at 65 MPH and see suddenly appeared on the road right in front of me after having being slung out of another car. I stopped two feet short of running over her). I can have the brakes applied even BEFORE my right foot is completely off the throttle. And, because of my experience with motorcycles, I have never had a tendency to apply throttle and brake at the same time. It just doesn't work to stomp on the gearshift when you want to stop when riding a motorcycle. Those that tired that very often are no longer around. It would actually be unsafe, at this stage, for me to attempt to change and use the right foot for breaking (yes, we do get set in our ways).

[QUOTE=Nicodemus]And Jim, just because you got into the habit of left-foot braking in San Fran doesn't make it safe. You live in NC now, anyway.

 

McGriddle, move the needle on the GTO directly North (vertical) and see what speed is indicated. Now, do it for the TSX and see what speed is indicated.

A lot depends upon what one is used to -- and I will just have to get used to seeing the TSX speedometer needle pointing in the "just getting started good" direction when cruising on the Interstate (or should I say autobahn?) and the "get me out of first gear" direction when diving around town.

And, having 200 MPH on the GTO speedometer is not only senseless, but dangerous. A fellow recently bought a GTO here at Harry's in Asheville, took it out the next day, totaled the car, and nearly killed his passenger. Perhaps he was trying to see if the car would actually go 200 MPH. I understand that that is what the police report sort of indicates. Race cars should be on race tracks. And, unless a car is a race car, it doesn't need a speedometer than indicates 200 MPH, or 160 MPH, or 140 MPH, etc.

I recently had a G35 pass me on I-85 at about 110 MPH. The driver was not only endangering his life, but he was also endangering my life, the life of my wife, and many others trying to use the public roads for public transportation. Excessive speed is the number one contributing factor in the approximately 35,000 traffic fatalities each year. In comparison, the tragic loss of American life in Iraq over the past 12-18 months is still less than 1,000.

I helped a handicapped person change a tire on a roadway last week (there was no place to pull off and the fellow refused to drive on the rim). I was nearly hit by two drivers that saw no danger in a car parked in the middle of the road (I put out markers) and one driver nearly caused a head-on collision -- all because of impatience and excessive speed.

----------------------

[QUOTE=McGriddle]Wait... WTF? You say you like the GTO cluster but complain that the TSX's speedo goes above 100 mph?!?!?! The GTO's speedo goes to 200 mph! That's 200! That, to put things into correct perspective, is over 3 times the legal speed limit most places.

 

Jim - despite some of the agism displayed in this thread, you'll still find good info (and good people) scattered throughout the forum and other posts. A lot of the posters here are below the original target market for the TSX (which was something like 30yr+ making $80k+), or at least have not had their maturity catch up with their age yet. I'm in the target market myself, and am buying the TSX as much for the 4drs and crash test ratings as I am for the great handling and entry-level lux.

Having said that, it is OK to nit-pick, but be aware that you are at an enthusiast site (for the TSX, which also tends to mean Japanese vehicles, or at least imports rather than domestics) - not just an informational one. Also, did you check out the Accord EX V6?

 

Thanks Nicodemus, you're right - I never suggested this "ghetto" style of driving. It was pretty clear from what I said that he move it as far back as is comfortable for him. I seriously doubt he would be comfortable with his arms completely extended.

I really love the way people fling generalizations around here.

 

Thanks, vitocorleone

I told the salesman that I had no idea what I wanted to buy, but that I wanted to start with the 4 cyl. Accord and work up to the TL (he sales both Honda and Acura). So, the V6 Accord was the second car that I drove. I liked it. Then, I test drove the TSX and there was no need to test drive the TL. I liked the TSX better than the Accord -- and my wife said, "This is the first car that says, 'Take me home'." The next day we returned to the dealership and she test drove the TSX and liked it (she didn't test drive the Accord). She did not like the rounded corners of the Accord but loved the styling of the TSX. We were surprised to find that the trunk area of the TSX is almost as large as the Accord trunk (1 cu. foot smaller).

I prefer a 4 cyl. over a 6 cyl. if it has adequate power, as does the Quad 4 in the Grand Am. With the Accord and the TSX being the same price, the decision was a no-brainer.

My wife's first car was a Le Mans (326) that she bought new at 20 years of age (she didn't have dad and mom involved in the purchase as apparently a lot of young people do today). She went to the dealer expecting to buy a GTO, but the salesman re-directly her to a Le Mans. She has had nothing but Grand Am's since she parked the Le Mans -- and absolutely loves the Grand Am with the Quad 4. The Le Mans was sold a couple of months ago, along with my GTO. I think she will like the TSX better than any other car that she has owned.

We have a 2004 PWP on order and hope to see it before the end of Sept. That should give us at least 4 good weeks of good driving weather, and mountain scenery, before the foliage is gone.

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

I really want to make it clear that my suggestions on seat positioning have absolutely nothing to do with style or "what the kids think is cool." It's based completely on research I've done regarding airbags, airbag safety, and my chances of survival in an accident.

 

you want to basically "hug" the airbag...so that when it deploys, you don't want the airbag to snap/break your wrists... Now finding out how big the airbag is...

 

The speed of that G35 may seem excesive but it all depends on circumstances. Traffic, time of day, weather, driver training and a host of other factors would have to be known to determine if the speed was excesive. Just because you set your cruise control at some arbitrarily chosen speed limit does not make it safer than some other speed. What did you do when the speed limit went up from 55 to 65? Did you keep driving at 55? I have a feeling you are now driving at the new speed limit. Why? Because to you it still seems safe. For others some other speed seems safe.

The best way to set speed limits is to remove all speed limits, monitor the traffic for speed and set the limit at the average driven by the general public. Most people have a built in confort level at which they like to drive. Without any limits most adults with proper training and reasonable driving skills would be comfortable at around 85MPH. Guess what - that's the ball park speed limit in most of Europe. People routinely drive at those speeds in Europe with LOWER fatality rates than in the US.

But back to the TSX - while it may take a while you'll get used to it. You might even unlearn that left foot brake thing.

Did you ever consider getting a bike again? They have come a long way and the foot brake is on the right now.

 

> They have come a long way and the foot brake is on the right now.

Yep. While I would not own a BMW automobile, I am considering an RT1100 -- or it's replacement. One big step backwards was moving the brake to the right side (at least for those of us that are right-handed).

Regarding speeds:

1) A slower speed is almost always safer than a faster speed.

2) Kinetic energy increases with the square of the speed.

3) In Tennessee, and in some other states, going 15 MPH over the speed limit is reckless driving. In my opinion, it should be that way in all states except for some of the states with low population density and flat, open terrain.

4) Going 115 MPH in a 65 MPH zone is always unsafe, reckless, foolish, inconsiderate, and extremely dangerous no matter what the traffic, time of day, weather, and driver training. One never knows when a deer, a rabbit, a turtle, or some other object (such as some debris that fell off a truck) can cause loss of control. I witness a truck in Chattanooga spills it's load of cast iron pipes all the way across all four lanes of Interstate. There was no way for anyone to avoid them. I witness another truck scattering sharp metal, that would easily cut a tire, all over the road. One truck spilled its load of cow guts on the road and they were as slippery as ice. Another truck spilled a load of something that was so slippery that the clean up crew could not stay upright. The unexpected can occur at any time. I went around a mountain curve at the posted speed for the curve and found a farm tractor in my lane going about 6 MPH. Had I been going faster, there would have been an accident. I had about 100 feet to get on the brakes and get my speed reduced to 6 MPH.

5) I suddenly found a women on the payment right in front of me. Had I been going 66 MPH instead of 65 MPH, I would have likely ran over her. As it was, she suffered no injuries -- as I managed to stop two feet short of her.

6) I believe that in at least one state, the cops are required to arrest you (not write you a ticket) if caught going in excess of 90 MPH.

7) When the national 55 MPH speed limit was lifted, the highway fatality rate increased about 15 percent and has remained higher ever since. That equates to about four thousand, five hundered people a year.

8) The fatality rate from highway accidents in Germany is shameful and has caused the government to consider placing speed limits on the autobahn. The Germans have one big advantage over the Americans in that there seems to be little need to street race or prove how powerful, loud, or fast, one's car may be.

9) Street racing in Georgia will cause the immediate loss of one's driver's license. Yet, there have been many fatalities of teenagers that still felt the need to prove their "street credentials" to their peers on crowded streets.

10) In some states, it is illegal to use a radar, or a laser, detector.

11) Dozens of pedestrians are killed each year in Atlanta. The vast majority of those deaths are contributed to excessive speed.

12) Check http://www.tailofthedragon.com/ for other examples of why speeding is not a good idea.

13) I am paying a lot more for insurance than I should be because too many people believe that speed limits serve no useful purpose. The same can be said of bikers that believe that helmets serve no useful purpose.

I could go on, but I think this expresses my view that the public highway system should be used for public transportation and that race tracks should be used for all forms of racing.

 

You make some valid points, and if you're driving around some switchy hill roads, sticking to the speed limit is undoubtedly wise. I stick with "prevailing"; driving slower than the herd risks mayhem on some freeways.

If you are, indeed, driving on winding hill/mountain roads, you are in for a wonderful treat with your TSX; I think it thrives on that kind of road condition - linked curves as fun as carving a downhill slope on skis.................. probably have a lot of fun and STILL adhere to the speed limit.

 

While i understand and feel your need for saftey, I've been behind the wheel in two major wrecks that totaled my car (neither my fault) and been passenger in another one on the highway at higher speeds...

I will agree with going 115 in a 65, specially in a highly populated area.

But...you also cant live your life in a shell or in fear of everything little thing.
Shit happens, accidents happen... I see what youre saying, I really do, but I think your taking it to the extreme.

 

Actually this is not true. This is what the government wants everyone to believe and they spin that propaganda endlessly.

The number one place for fatal car accidents (for ALL accidents really) is not on the highway where people are going fast, it's not on public byways where people are going fast.
It's IN INTERSECTIONS, and is caused by people running red lights.
The government will spin this to everyone however.
How?
Say there was 100 fatal crashed in intersection from people running red lights.
The police will study the cause of these accidents and if they conclude someone was driving even 5 mph over the speed limit, they'll list the cause of the crash to speeding. So, if in that 100 examples, 50 of them the police determined were going even 1 or 2 mph over the speed limit, they dump those statistics into a speed related death!
When in FACT it had probably nothing to do with speeding, but more of the greed of the driving to not wanting to stop and thinking, "I'm late maybe I can just get by before that yellow turns red" and then just going through the intersection, or more commonly people just not paying attention.

I see it all the time here in Los Angeles, people run the lights like it's there God given right and they don't even seem like they know. They'll be talking on the cell phone or whatever.

If you don't believe me, there's a HUGE study about this somewhere I read about it in one of the car mags a couple years ago.
And there's also a TV show that aired not long ago about the German autobahn.
People drive VERY FAST there, as I'm sure you know.
But mile to mile, comparably the the U.S. highways, we have FAR more accidents on our highways with people driving 65-75 mph than the autobahn has with their people driving twice that.

Both these studies by two different agencies in two different continents came up with the same result....it's not the speeding that's causing the accidents. Sure speed does contribute and you are more vunerable, but there are just as many, if not MORE things that cause and contribute to accidents too. Those you rarely hear about, or again, if they find the driver was slightly speeding while doing other things, they'll classify it as just a speed related accident.

If you want to campaign against any illegal action on the streets, campaign your local government to start enforcing and ticketing red light runners. They do FAR more damage, and one day, it might be a family or friend of yours whose life you save by the many people who consistently run red lights, but police are more concerned about giving you a ticket for driving 10 mph over the speed limit on a deserted road with no one in sight!

 

ric,

I am in the heart of the Smoky Mountains, just a couple of miles from the Blue Ridge Parkway and about 90 miles from the Smoky Moutains national park. For an idea of the type of roads that are available, check the pages at:

http://www.tailofthedragon.com/

I have never found that sticking to safe speeds removed any driving pleasure. In fact, it is just the opposite; I feel more comfortable and enjoy driving more.

Now, there are times when I will exceed the speed limit -- when I have a downhill followed by an incline, and I have a clear view of the road ahead, and I am certain that there are no side roads, then I will accelerate to have momentum when I hit the incline and then let the speed gradually bleed off. Or, when I pass a car on a short length of road with a curve, or hill, up ahead. And, in other situations when the risk factor is low and the benefit is preceived to be worth the risk. I don't speed for the sake of speed and I don't make a habit out of speeding. And, I certainly try not to endanger the lives of others by being foolish or reckless. Others have a right to live and not have their lives put in jeopardy by the foolish acts of some stranger. As they say in the construction zones in NC, "Let them live. Let them work."

I am very much looking forward to the TSX and taking it to the moutains. I plan to drive up to Washington, DC on the Blue Ridge Parkway. And, the Blue Ridge Parkway between here and the Smoky Mountains National Park is like driving on a road that could only be found in some movie. There are a few curves with posted speeds of 20 MPH while the speed limit might be 45 MPH (or even higher).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are, indeed, driving on winding hill/mountain roads, you are infor a wonderful treat with your TSX; I think it thrives on that kind ofroad condition - linked curves as fun as carving a downhill slope onskis.................. probably have a lot of fun and STILL adhere to the speed limit.

 

The RT1150 is a wonderful bike but as my avatar shows I'm a bit biased toward Hondas.

4. As I said before that 65MPH speed limit was set becasue it is a nice convenient number - it has very little to do with safety - just as the 55 before it did. Do you feel less safe now that you are going lawfully at 65 instead of 55? Nothing changed with either the road, the cars or drivers when the speed limit went from 55 to 65 - it's just some number the gov't pulled out of thin air. Most of the US highway system was designed and built to be safely driven at 100MPH with 1960s vintage cars.

7. That supposed increase in fatality rate when the limit was raised is just some tree huggers' misguided interpretation of statistics. It's been going down every year since the limit went up.
Here are the numbers for the past 10 years (03-94):
Fatalities per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Traveled 1.48 1.51 1.51 1.53 1.55 1.58 1.64 1.69 1.73 1.73

8. There's nothing shameful about the fatality rate on the German autobahn - it's lower than the US. A great deal of the autobahn already has speed limits and even the sections that don't have speed limits the police enforce the "reasonable limit" of which I spoke in earlier post. I bet you would have a blast driving the autobahn at 100MPH knowing that it is safe and need not worry about speeding - I know I do everytime I drive it.

13. You are quite right on this point.

 

Driver72,

You make some good points and I fully agreed with the red light problem. It can easily be witnessed in Atlanta. You can sit at an intersection after the light turns green and watch a half dozen cars that are turning left go right by in front of you because the driver's refuse to stop on a red light (or arrow). I have been nearly rear-ended on several occassions because I stopped for the red light and the driver behind me had fully intended to go through the red light. The sudden change of plans is not comforting.

As for speeding, the traffic "flow," if people would not intentionally ignore the rules, then driving would be a lot safer for everyone. And, guess what. Over a span of a year, it would save no one any time to run red lights. Because, next time, it is your turn to sit at a green light while the other drivers run the red light. It all comes down to impatience -- which is also a major factor in speeding, tailgating, zigzagging and other dangerous driving habits. It is clear from observation in Atlanta, that many of the driver's that run the red lights are also the same drivers that are driving at excessive speeds.

 

That was when all the Interstate system was four lanes (rather than six or more) and the traffic density was much less.

How often do you get over to Germany?

> Most of the US highway system was designed and built to be safely driven at 100MPH
> with 1960s vintage cars.

 

Here is a good article regarding the local roads:

http://www.landlinemag.com/Archives/...the_dragon.htm

Also,

http://www.tailofthedragon.com/

 

My point is that the road design allows for safe 100MPH crusing IF the other factors don't interfere. I never said it's safe to do 100MPH in bumper to bumper traffic. But if you're on I80 in Utah with no other cars in sight - I'd feel very safe setting the cruise control at 100MPH regardless of what the speed limit sign said.

I'm in Germany about every 3 months.

 

Jim,
A little sidenote... I was down in Asheville a few weeks ago with my tsx, and wow are those mountain roads fun in this car! You'll love it!

 

You also have to realize that going 100mph is unsafe when the other cars are all going 65-70mph. This doesn't hold true when the rest of traffic is going the same speed. Montana has a "Safe and Reasonable" speed limit (or something to that effect). Does anyone have numbers for their accident rates?

The bottom line here is that you should drive a speed safe for the conditions. Regarless of the speed limit, you are making the highway unsafe if you are going 50 and the rest of traffic is going 70. That's why there are also minimum speed limits.

By the way, none of my arguments have nothing to do with your age Jim. I just wanted to clarify that. I'm a 24-year-old taught to drive by a 76-year-old father who was a truck driver and has driven in every single situation imaginable. My father does not seem to have the same issues with traffic and speed as you do, so that leads me to believe that it has nothing to do with age and much to do with personal preference. Nobody can make you drive any speed. Just drive the safest way possible, which to me includes not going way slower than the rest of traffic as well as not going way faster than the rest of traffic.