I'm sure this topic has probably been rehashed several times, so I'll be quick.

Any suggestions or tips on technique for getting the 1-2 shift smooth? Links to past threads welcome.

 

don't press clutch to the floor.

 

Hmmm. The clutch engagement point in this car is closer to the floor than it was in my last car, but I'll look into this. I'm not having any trouble with the other shifts, but the RPM drop between 1 and 2 is big and lifting the clutch too early or too late both cause jerkiness. I guess it's just a matter of timing and I'll get used to it.

My last car was easy to shift, but it would kick the stickshift out of the gear you were trying to shift into if you lifted the clutch prematurely during the shift, even if the syncro hubs had already lined up and it was dropping into the gear.

 

I have been driving manuals exclusively for over 5 years now and this past weekend my mom complained about how annoying it was to sit in my TSX because of the "shift jerk".

Obviously, I tried to finesse the shifting and be more attentive after she said that but 1-2 still proves to be a bitch. The RPM drop really makes it hard to avoid the occassional jerk.

I have an Integra Type-R and shifting from 1-2 is much smoother with less jerk but the revs do not drop nearly as much with the gearing in that car.

I guess just be mindful of it and clutch in slower and release the clutch slower when shifting 1-2 and 2-3.

 

I've gotten use the clutch on the 1-2 shift. but I always feel like I'm grinding 2nd. I know it's the synchros, but I don't like the way it feels. the 1-2 and 5-6 shift usually feel like I'm hurting the transmission.

 

when I shift 1 - 2 I usually bring the RPM up to around 3500 and that makes for a smooth shift

 

I'm thinking the 1-2 shift issue is only exacerbated by the nature of the DBW system. Its on-off nature are what's really causing the jerkiness, at least in my opinion.

 

i have the same exact feeling! like when i shift the shift knob from 1-2 or 5-6, it feels really rough like im going against something.... is that normal?

 

Try not taking your foot off the accelerator when you shift from 1 to 2.

 

Why would this help?

Say you're at 3500 RPM and want to shift 1-2. The RPM after this shift will be, say 2000 RPM (I could compute the exact number from the ratios but this is close enough and the principle is still the same).

I'd think a "perfect" shift (in this scenario) would go something like this:

1. You push in the clutch and lift off the gas.
2. You shift into 2nd gear
3. Meanwhile, as soon as you have done (1), the engine RPM start to drop, slowly at first then more rapidly.
4. You lift off the clutch and ease back onto the throttle just as the RPM exactly hits 2000.

If you kept your foot on the gas, then after (1) the RPM will actually start to climb (and rapidly) while your are shifting, and then the drive-train has to "drag" the engine down to the 2000 RPM when you lift off the clutch, which you would feel as a forward tug on the car. Similarly, if you wait too long for (4) above, the drive-train has to drag the engine back up to 2000 RPM, which you feel as a braking force on the car.

Of course, I'm talking mainly talking about everyday driving and not racing (in which case speed and timing are more critical). Obviously, you don't watch the RPM needle (except maybe when first learning the gearing on the car) -- it's more a matter of timing.

My experience is that you can always get smooth shifts if you're lifting off the clutch in the next gear at the "right" RPM for that gear. It's lifting off at the "wrong" RPM (and to some extent mistiming the throttle) that cause the jerkiness. I'm just having more trouble in this car on 1-2 than in previous ones.

 

Sorry, I wasn't very specific. What I meant was, to prevent the RPMs from dropping, keep the throttle open even during the shift, and adjust your throttle prior to engaging the clutch. After all, if your goal is to rev match, why let the RPMs drop in the first place only to bring them back up to match?

 

But now that I think about it, that just seems like a waste of gas. I like your explanation better.

 

LOL!

It's funny everyone talks about "Getting used to it". WHY?! Why would people with years of MT experience have to get used to a non-intuitive, buggy and mediocor DBW technology by Honda when cars costing less than half of TSX's MSRP can deliver a much smoother shifting experience?

Why is Honda not admitting to their major screw-up?

Honda is not there to change people's driving habbits or to change the rules of the game.

I don't want to adjust to Honda's f*** up after paying $40,000(CAD) for a car.

And no, the test drive did not provide enough time/focus for me to notice this crap.

 

I saw your other note after this one, but you're quite right about this point if you don't lift on the clutch fast enough. This is exactly what happens - the RPMs drop too far, and then you get a braking effect as the drive-train drags the engine back up to match.

I'm mainly having the other problem, lifting on the clutch when the RPMs are too high. I guess I'll just have to learn the timing and pause longer on 1-2.

I don't know if the DBW is to blame. My Jetta had DBW too and it didn't seem to help (or hurt) shifting, except that the RPM didn't immediately drop like a rock when you clutched like cars with a standard throttle cable do. This helps to avoid letting the RPM drop too low, but hurts if you don't wait long enough.

I think the TSX acts similar but I'll check again today when I'm driving. It only has 40 miles on it now so I'm definitely a newbie.

 

DBW is def not the problem. Honda has the ratio wrong for 2nd gear for every day driving. Plan and simple, getting use to it will help cope with the issue but there should be little to no "getting use to" time from switching to a car in the same class and manf.

 

Yup. They chose the ratio so you could hit 60 mph without a 2-3 shift (for those Oh So Important 0-60 mph magazine stats ), whereas 2nd should be shorter so the ratios would be more evenly spaced.

Frankly, I'm not even sure the ratio is right even for non-every day driving.

You could also just argue that 1st is too short, but this helps off the line. In any case, its the ratio gap between 1 and 2 that is the problem.

Anyway, I was well aware of this before buying, but it's not a big deal. I decided I could live with it even on my test drive, but it would be nice to be able to do it well nonetheless.

 

Shifting quickly and early (around 3K rpm) works for me.

Notice I said "quickly" and not "Harder"...Big difference...

 

oh, i typically rev higher (around 4k) and give it a quick snap into 2nd.
stop-and-go traffic here in Atlanta sucks big-time, but i wanted the 6MT anyway.... on weekends, along the twisty country backroads, it's WORTH IT.

 

Meh, its more fun when those twisties are up and down mountains

 

For example

 

I didn't say it was the problem, I said it exacerbated the problem. Exacerbated in this case means contributes to, and that's exactly what it does. You can't talk about shifting and accelerating in the TSX without talking about DBW. DBW + poor 1-2 gear ratio = tricky shifting.

 

I've found that you just have to "feel" how long to let the RPMs drop for the 1-2 shift.

Yes, it's a BIG ratio difference (3.x to 1.8?), so you do have to wait for a moment before letting out the clutch. However, once you time it down it's smooth.

Remember, the higher the RPMs, the longer you have to wait! If you shift from 1 to 2 at 7,000 rpm, the motor has to slow down a ton before it's at the right speed for 2nd gear.

Wait too long, get a jerk as the drive rain speeds up the motor, wait too little and get pulled forward as the motor pulls the car.

 

juss dont let go of clutch too fast?

 

What I do is I release the clutch to the point where it is MOSTLY engaged, but don't let go off the clutch completely for another second or so. That seems to smoothen it out.

In other words, I try to release the clutch pedal smoothly.

Of course rev-matching helps too.

TSX is the only MT car I owned in which I have to THINK in order to shift smoothly, even after driving it for half a year.

 

If you don't like the grinding feeling in the 1-2 shift, then pull straight down for 1st to 2nd instead of pulling down and to the left.

 

I do the same, around 4K rpm. I was changing 1-2 @ 3k before but found a smoother shift at 4k.

 

This damn thread got my thinking of the 1-2 shift the entire way home.

Holding the clutch awhile longer or revving to 4k seems to be the best solution IMO.

I'm just happy I now have a good excuse when my wife complains about by bad shifting.

 

LOL , what a DRAMA Queen!

 

Something I noticed is that at higher RPM, you can take your time in shifting 1-2 because the gap in RPM is larger than if you were at low RPM. When I am shifting from 1st to 2nd at only 2500rpm, I have to shift really quick and let the clutch out quick so that I catch the RPM before it falls too low and ends up being jerky.

 

Everytime I see a thread like this, I'm reminded of the reasons why I was fed up enough to drop a load of change to just switch the darned gears out.

With my shorter 2nd, the 1-2 shift is MUCH smoother and lands you back into a good part of the powerband. The only downside is you feel like revving out every gear.

In regards to DBW, I noticed that the throttle plate doesn't close as fast as a cable-controlled plate. While I can understand DBW programming intended to reduce engine braking since it's a tame sport-luxury car, it can be a double-edged sword because it can make upshifting more harsh compared to conventional cable designs.

 

If anyone is interested, the FAQ references a long thread about shifting the MT in general, but not specifically the 1-2 shift issue:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...5&page=1&pp=25

 

It's taken me about 2 months of owning my TSX to finally get find a sweet spot with shifting to 1-2 smoothly, it was annoying as heck for a while but now it's barely noticeable.

Provided I take off normally without quick acceleration, I usually just use 1st to get the car rolling going maybe 8-10mph. I think the biggest help is I have my seat adjusted to allow me to depress the clutch comfortably right about to the engagement point. I can now shift from 1-2 just as smooth as an automatic would feel, and I feel as though finding the engagement point was critical to accomplish that.

I find if I depress the clutch to the floor during 1-2 it usually results in a "slippy" or rougher transition.

 

I will reference this thread in the future when family members complain about my "jerky" shifting skills.

 

is it wrong to skip 2nd and go straight to 3rd?

 

I've read that it's bad for the synchros in a manual transmission.

Sometimes if I am quickly accelerating (merging into traffic) and I'm up to speed I might do a 2nd to 5th shift and skip gears - but I rarely find myself in a situation doing that.

I wouldn't make it a habit of skipping gears during normal driving, but once in a while under certain conditions I would think shouldn't be too bad?

 

NOPE. Don't believe otherwise.

 

There's an Acura TSB telling you not to do it. I'm too lazy to find it right now.

Then again, it even tells service advisors in one of the TSB's to scold customers with a CAI.

While it's debatable if it screws up syncros or not, what's the point in doing so anyway? If it's laziness, you should've bought an automatic.

 

add gas before your clutch is fully released
i just started stick a week ago...1-2 is 50% jerky..cant perfect it yet

 

Two things that are to blame;the gear ratios and the Stability control.Try staying in first just a touch longer,and shift a bit slower. The exra revs get some momentum and also let you find the better shift point. Also I found that shifting with the DSC off helps.When you shift too hard(fast) the computer detects some wheel spin and cuts the throttle. Blame that on drive by wire.

 

except for when the engine is cold, for me, the jerkiness occurs due to rpm not dropping fast enough after disengaging the clutch to go from 1st to 2nd. Is it just me?

When the engine is warmed up, if I take time before engaging the clutch, I usually get smooth shifts. Sometimes, cars behind me get angry b/c I can't accelerate fast enough if I have to do this. (I have to wait till clutch is engaged and then give more gas)

Why is my problem different than all yours?