Charon

I noticed in my 05 TSX owner's manual, first page, that my car has an "event data recorder".

This sounded bad.

And so it was. I called my Acura dealer who confirmed that this device is implanted in the electronics along with the Fuel Injection, and records speed, any braking or non-braking, etc. for the 30 seconds or so immediately prior to shut down (or impact).

Evidently there is no way to disable this and he also said that Acura had been putting such devices in all their cars since 1996 even though the 04 TSX manual makes no such similar reference.

Anyone else familiar with this? Any idea if it's really true that you can't disable it? Any idea what the law is concerning your own personal vehicular property?


Thanks


Charon
MS/6MT/NonNav

majin ssj eric

Hmmmmm, sounds big-brothery.....

Xtremespeed2102

somebody was talking to me about that..... i was wonderinf if i had one, you said first page?? i will go look tomrrow at that.. i wonder if the 04s have it too....

slo007

It's in there, but only available to Acura if the dealer has access to it.

biker

It's been talked about in other threads - black boxes have been in cars for a number of years - the only thing that's changed is the amount of info stored, the ease with which one can get at the info and the amount the makers tell you about it. I doubt there's any diff as far as the amount of stuff an 04 or 05 TSX stores in the ECU. It's just that Acura decided to tell you about it with the 05.

As I mentioned before - if you're worried about someone getting to the info after an incident - your only recourse is to take the ECU out of the car and take a hammer to it.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

And then that's considered destroying evidence with possibl penalties and repercussions. Much like companies shredding documents before they are subpoenaed.

biker

It's your car and ECU - you can do whatever you want with it.

MrChad

Wasn't some kid convicted b/c of the data on his TransAms ECU? Speeding, etc. etc.

Montag

Car and Driver had a column about this. Here's a link to it:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

Lung Fu Mo Shi

"So the question arises: Can an owner erase the data before they can be downloaded? There are certainly ways of clearing a memory chip, or the vehicle’s owner could simply destroy or discard the ABM. But lawyer Peters advises against this move: “During a trial, the presumption is that lost evidence goes against the guy who lost it.”

Bottom line, the judge would be pissed that you overtly destroyed the evidence. This act would be presented in court as either an obstruction of justice, or raise the crime to include one with covering up. The prosecution would use this as an indicator that you know you are guilty, etc. etc.

biker

Trust me, if the only evidence against someone was the info on the ECU, they would take the hammer to it without hesitation. Perhaps a hammer is excessive and too obvious - hooking up the car to 110V house current would be a much cleaner way to get rid of the data.

Xtremespeed2102

isnt it simply enough able to restart the car n run it for a bit to erase it? it cant possibly hold THAT much data.....worst comes to worse get a nice sized magnet, cant say it was ure fault.... in any case it would be considered defective.... just gotta find the bugger....im sure its in those manuals u guys bought.

MrChad

The box would be used if you totaled out the car in a wreck....and in the case of someone hitting you the data may help you.

So how do you run the car after a wreck?

Big Pimpin

This accident happened around november in B.C. where this big load of logs fell off this truck and caused a huge accident killing ppl and that information stored didnt do shit cause he left the truck idling after the accident

Xtremespeed2102

all you need is a 12V supply. power it up, sure itll prolly read error but after a while it wont remmeber why it had an error, or if u wanna make it even more ovbious plug it into the wall, 120V will make it smoke nicely.

see if the truck story is right, the same thing could happen if u just plug it into another battery. hell you could probably put it into another TSX or acura for taht matter and prolly fool it.

swami

This is an interesting post, as I've been involved in an Acura survey lately. They keep asking if I'd be interested in a device installed in a car that relates to my insurance rates. :wtf: It mentioned speeds driven and other bullshit that I do, that would increase my rates. Fuck a whole lot a that.

biker

Yeah, they would install a tracking device that would store more stuff and prove to the ins company that you drive conservatively.

Master47

I like the last point in the article where it talks about relaying your speed to a police officer that is "scanning" your chip as you pass by. That pretty much eliminates radar/laser detectors. Screw pulling you over and risk life/limb to give you a ticket, they will just be gathering data in a database - ID# + speed= ticket in the mail.

kurt_bradley

As a person that has run a service department, the box is there so that a dealer can acquire "freeze data" in the event of a collision or detonation of an engine. Through the use of a diagnostic tool (like a PGM tester or an HDS unit), a technician can determine what happened at the last crucial moment. It can help make a more certain evaluation to why an engine blew additionally. It stores engine speed (RPM), vehicle speed, engine temp, gear selection, and a few other details.

It can tell us, for example, if someone went to drop a couple gears to take off on a little run against someone on the highway...missed a shift from 6th to 4th and accidentally stuck it in 2nd, revved the engine up to 9371 RPMs @ 93 mph, detonated the engine, snapped off 2 con rods (one of which punctured the rear of the block [with a hole the size of my fist] just above the oil filter), bent the other 2 rods to just short of snapping, twisted 13 of 24 valves into corkscrews, melted 2 pistons into little metal balls, damaged the other 2 pistons from compression that they appeared to have been attacked with a jackhammer, molded 2 spark plugs into the combustion chamber (to make them appear that they were just molded in from initial build), shattered the valve retainers, snapped 3 bolts in the main crank, cooked the oil to a point of being a slime-like material, and lost 2 lbs of matter that were donated to storage inside the intake manifold and the header...

all of this without having to actually take apart the engine...but let's just do it for fun anyway...

Quite a catastrophic event for a little RSX engine huh? Oh, and this one wasn't mine. I haven't personally blown a K-series engine.

Salmoneous

So what you are saying, as a trained service technician, is that we shouldn't do that, right?

biker

It won't tell you all that and you don't need the info from the ECU for a case like the above.

kurt_bradley

I know that...I was just giving an example of a car where the freeze data gave me a good idea of what I was going to find once I cracked it open.

somberlaine

There was an incident that happened a couple years ago with a rental company where they had a data recorder installed in all their fleet that records your highest speed. So, when you return the car, they check the data recorder and they charge you extra if you were driving too fast. Anyways, one customer sued the rental company and the rental company still won the case cause they make every customer initial next to the clause that discusses the data recorder. I don't recall the exact details of the case but I will research it more tomorrow at work and let you all know the details.

biker

That's different cause they tell you they're going to screw you up front and they installed something extra in the car - we're talking about something that comes standard with the car.

DCyamaha

I cannot imagine an event that this data recorder would help an owner.

However, I can imagine a TON of events where it could hurt the owner with the stored info.

PLUS, all info is open to inturpritation(sp?). I gaurantee you that any good lawyer can turn information stored in the "EDR" against anyone they so desire involved in any "incident."

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Well, the police could not believe that you were driving only 35 mph when the ass in the SUV crushed your car at 80. Pull that data recorders and see who's lying.

There are situations where it would help the driver, but since most people lie, and most news stories are about the worst uses, the overall opinion is negative.

Personally, it can't be helped, but should require a subpoena or warrant to access.

bz268

I don't think they can pass a law to get the data out from your car.
The ACLU will kill the bill way before it can get into the floor.

swami

The way they worded it was...How much would you pay extra for a device that relayed info to Acura, that then could be fowarded to your insurance co., that could result in lower insurance rates. I have a flawless driving record, but I drive 80 or so regularly. That's just the kind of info I want my insurance company to have.

biker

You might not want to admit to that even here - you never know - one of these days ins companies might pay to search for forums for that kind of info.

Biker, who rarely watches 60 Minutes but found the story interesting.

Whiskers

Mods, please delete all my posts here......

biker

I'm sure there's some panic mongers out there that after watching the 60 Minutes piece would raise the alert flag.

acuratsx03

from another thread...

(in reference to pot)


uh oh... dont let anyone see that one

95gt

I was always under the impression that the point of these black boxes was to help the manufacturers find out what went wrong in an accident and thereby add features to a car that could help prevent/reduce deaths in future accidents. Wouldn't the brake system that some cars have that automatically uses full pressure on the pads when the drivers start to really get on the brakes be an example?

biker

Sure that was the intent, but then the cops and ins companies wanted access to the data also and now we have this problem.