SPUDMTN

What does everyone think? I'd buy a diesel in a heartbeat if more manufacturers offered it. Mercedes is finally bringing back diesel, but in a much better way: CDI. The Car Connection can't stop singing praises about the CDI.

Would you buy a diesel powered Honda or Acura if they sold it over here. It surprises me that Honda hasn't already thought about bringing it over here--isn't Honda's whole philosophy less is more?

Maybe diesel is the wave of the future--it seems that all the manufacturers are looking around to solve mileage problems when the answer is right in front of them.

Dan Martin

I'm not really sold on diesels but a lot of canadians are. VW Canada says 40% of total sales are diesels.

bob shiftright

Interesting looking MB motor!

Well, I drive 25k miles/year, so does my wife. The story in my Wall Street Journal on Monday said that global oil refinery capacity will be exceeded by the end of this year.

So, sure, I'm interested! If we hit $3-$4/gallon this year I'm sure a lot of others will, too.

BTW I read somewhere that there is only a short "window" now there diesels can slip through the EPA requirements and that the window will be closed in a few years.

SPUDMTN

Doesn't this specific engine meet those requirments? It's a SUPER efficient and clean engine--it exceeds the EUs standards, by FAR!

I need to test drive this thing--some how. Having that much torque @ only 1800 rpm is truely amazing.

Doesn't the Euro Accord have a diesel engine? Anyone know what it sounds like, how it runs, how it handles, etc...?

idlegrasshopper

I would love a diesel. The fuel mileage is great, and the engines are pretty much bulletproof. Plus, since the engines are so robust, they are very receptive to insane boost levels I think the problem is that our diesel fuel has too much of something (sulfur?) in it, which causes some sort of evil bad emission problem.

SPUDMTN

I've never quite understood why Europe practically lives on the diesel engines and why we over here have hardly any. What's the scoop? Why aren't diesel engines as popular in the states? Why is the government so against them? Can someone explain the whole situation to me more? lol

iNteGraz92

our diesel sucks or something

biker

It's simple economics. What would you rather buy: a VW Golf with the 1.8T gas engine getting maybe 30MPG or the TDi version that gets 50MPG with more torque when gas and diesel cost the same at about $5 a gallon?
In 2006 in Europe and 2007 in the US the emission standards will be tightened on diesel engines. The problem is mainly with the NOx/particulate part of the standard. To get rid of NOx, MB is going with a urea additive to get rid of NOx. The problem with this approach is that the user has to replenish the urea canister every x miles (kind of like refilling the gas tank). Other manufacturers are trying a more permanent but expensive option in the exhaust system. The sulfur problem is supposed to be addressed by the refiners and has nothing to do with the emission standards on the cars themselves.

The gov't is not against them (other than making it difficult via emission standards), the car buying public is against them in the US. Most folks still associate them with the noisy, smelly versions of long ago. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in noise, smell or performance between the standard Euro Accord (2.0 l gas engine) and the diesel.

This is one of the reasons hybrid might take a while to take hold in Europe. Any gains in fuel milage you would get going from gas to gas/hybrid have already been accomplished by going to diesel. The real tree huggers might say that overall the hybrid is cleaner, but most folks could care less about that.

Mokijoki

I took a diesel powered euro Accord for a spin when my own Accord (2L) was in for it's first maintenance job. When driving the noise is ok. You can't really hear a difference. When standing still and running stationary you can definatly hear the diesel engine though. I must say the diesel engine picks up pretty nice, but personally like my petrol engine a lot better. No high revving for the diesel... Honda is known for it's sporty image/characteristics, so the diesel powered Civic and Accord feel a bit odd to me. It's Honda's anwser for the diesel market in europe (Honda isn't selling nearly as well in europe as in other continents).

Diesel powered cars are popular in europe because of the reasons biker mentioned above. Better milage. Speaking for the situation in the Netherlands, for diesel powered cars you have to pay higher roadtaxes, so there is a clippingpoint where diesel starts to get interresting (you need to drive over a certain amount of miles a year).

biker

Yeah, when it comes to diesels forget about the tach. Revs is not what makes them go, it's torque. The power band on a diesel is quite different than a gas engine.

bob shiftright

Yes, it's clean but the EPA requirements are continuously tightening. And yes, "our" car is now available with a diesel, Honda's first in a car.

The English car magazine CAR tested it and liked it a lot. Like the station wagon version it's available everywhere but HERE!

BTW a large chunk of BMW sales in the Rest of The World are diesels. Only in NA is gas still cheaper than the bottled water in the cupholders. That may change this summer.

I seriously considered a diesel but the only choices in diesel cars in the US now are from VW, and coming from a Volvo that would be going from the electrical-system fire and into the frying pan. At least the Japanese know how to design and build electrical components.

Also, while the Mercedes inline 3.0 liter 5-cylinder turbodiesel was one of the most durable engines ever built, there were problems with some of the later Mercedes designs. There were big problems with the design of the 3.5 liter turbodiesel 6 cylinder in the 350SD. "These problems are clearly due to a design defect that Mercedes refuses to acknowledge. These problems can not be prevented with any sort of routine maintenance, nor can they be forestalled with changes in driving behavior. In essence, the engine self-destructs during normal operation. Symptoms have appeared as early as 50,000 miles. " CLICK HERE FOR MORE DETAILS

Not all diesels are trouble-free, not even the ones from Mercedes.

ClutchPerformer

The short answer is: Europe didn't have GM screw up the public percecption of Diesel engines (loud, smoky, no power) as happened here during that oil crisis in the 70s.

I love Diesel engines. I'd buy one in a second, on something other than a performance car (yes I know there's an AMG diesel).

biker

Yeah that POS engine that GM came up with by simply modfying an existing GM V8 gas engine to diesel was a horrid failure. Diesels have to be designed from the ground up as a diesel, internals are quite different than a gas engine.

The 3L diesel used by BMW has almost twice the torque of the same size gas engine with 50% better milage. The 50-70 passing time of the diesel is half the time of the gas engine (although the 0-60 time is about the same).

It should be quite simple for Honda to stick it's 2.2 diesel into the USDM Accord and of course the TSX. What are the chances of that?

toddstuh

I rent both C Classes when in Germany on business and the C220 CDI, kicks the gas engined C180's butt !
Very impressive vehicle....the CDI that is.
MB definately knows turbo diesels.
I'd buy one...

SPUDMTN

Was just trying to think of another diesel product that is coming over here. VW's Touareg V10 TDI. This one's topping off the Touareg line--I think prices are starting @ $60k. 5.0 liter V10...310 hp...and drum roll, please...553 lb. ft. torque! NICE

ClutchPerformer

That TDI Touareg is a nice vehicle, but I think $60k is a bit high. People aren't going to want to pay that much.

Dan Martin

The Touareg is one sweet truck. I love that V10 TDI...

SPUDMTN

I agree...TDI makes it better (like the commercial says) by giving this truck MONSTROUS power with un-believable mileage. Really...it's a win win situation

Dan Martin

You can actually do something useful with that truck. The towing ability is amazing.

gfxdave99

My girlfriend has a TDI beetle and it gets excellent gas milage and isnt too horribly slow.

My local PBS station carries DW Auto Motor & Sport which is like the german motorweek, they always review tons of cars i wish we could get here.

For example the BMW 530d which hits 0-60 in 7.1 flat and gets 43/mi gallon

DEVO

because we are not paying european gas prices... but i'm not a fan of diesel, don't like the smell and they sound terrible. but those are minor issues.

zircon

smell probably can be resolvewd by cleaning up the fuel throughout North America - it is basically sulfur-laden carp. Has an A4 1.7 ? diesel last summer. Awesome engine with a stick. All torque at low emd - literally noting when you get up to the point where the TSX takes off. You have to up-shift to get more power when passing - really bizarre feeling after NA Honda cars. When our fuld is cleaned up (sometime in 2005?), a diesel would be a great investment.

SPUDMTN

Have you heard a modern diesel engine? (excluding domestic pickup engines, etc...) They actually don't sound too bad. And its probably far less noticeable when you're actually inside the vehicle. MB's CDI engine used in the E320 CDI is only a decibel or two louder than the petrol engine...noise nowadays isn't really an issue.

ajs887

I used to doubt diesels until I went to England and had a ride in my uncle's Renault Espace 1.9 tdi. It gave him 480miles on one tank with luggage and 7 people in the car. He's soon going to be getting the NEW euro accord with the 2.2 cdti engine. I can't wait till this summer when I get to visit him again. It'll be nice to see the contrast between our 2.4 and his 2.2 diesel.

SPUDMTN

VERY cool...look forward to hearing a first person report on the Accord's diesel.

zircon

check out revfiew of Euro Accord diesel at

http://channel4.com/4car/road-tests/...esel-2376.html

If you can access Car magazine, they did a review of the same car back in November '03. Sorry I haven't read the article, but the above one suggests that Honda took a different approach than many other producers.

gpsiir

Neat! Wonder when/if it will make it to the US. I'd be tempted to trade in my TSX on one..... 'Course, the hybrid/IMA Honda/Acura's may be here before that.

biker

Calling on all knowledgeable CA drivers:
What keeps anyone from registering a used non-CA spec car in CA?

I see that the 2005 MB 320TDI will not be sold in CA (NY,CT is excluded too). But what keeps someone from buying it in Nevada, driving it over and registering it there?