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Car and Driver Television

What's On in September
September 2004

September 18-19 It’s a shootout between the Acura TSX, Audi A4 1.8T, Subaru Legacy 2.5GT, and Volvo S40 T5 as we compare a quartet of 30 Grand Sporty Sedans. Plus, we’ll get behind the wheel of Jeremy Mayfield’s number 19 Nextel Cup car to find out what it’s like driving Nascar style.

biker

It would have been nice to include the BMW 325 but it should be a good comparo.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Interesting...Gotta watch that to see how the TSX performs.

dom

So I'm guessing this comparo will be in next months mag as well?

Look for the TSX to finish 3rd. Behind the Subie and Volvo and ahead of the Audi.

Newplay1

Probably cool 2nd... lately they have been d*cking over honda/acura at shootouts.

biker

I don't see the Volvo ahead of the TSX and the Subie's only got the HP and AWD edge to its advantage.

dom

It will be interesting regardless. I forgot that the TSX one one of Car and Driver's 10 Best. I wonder if that will have any bearing on these results. Is the criteria they use to determine a 10 Best winner the same criteria they use to judge a comparo?

Can't wait.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

No, the 10 Best figures in a lot more consumer oriented factors. For comparos, it's usually performance based with price thrown in to measure value.

My bet is that the TSX will either win it or come in as runner-up. The Volvo has power, but it's nowhere near as good a car overall as the TSX. The Subaru may be the car that upsets the TSX, but I still can't get used to Subie's rather poorly designed interiors. And the A4 is a decent car, but lacks the suspension to play with this crowd.

plutonium239

Seems like some important players are missing.

evo??
is300??
g35??

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Think entry luxury small-midsize front and awd only.

The Evo is a sports car with four doors and isn't anywhere near the luxury market. The IS300 is a lame duck due for a redesign and is technically a compact, and the G35 is more a competitor for the TL than for the TSX.

dom

EVO ?? Not in the same class. G35?? Thats a TL competitor. I agree the IS would have made sense though.

Dan Martin

Evo = not lux at all. STi is the only other car in it's class.
IS300 = yes
G35 = much bigger, in a different class


Edit: domn wins.

dom

No, CG wins.

EDIT: $20 bucks says the Volvo wins this comparo.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I beat both of you to it. :P

Thank you, domn.

Dan Martin

Damn that was fast. Great minds think alike!

plutonium239

Didn’t he write "30 grand sporty sedans"?? These qualify do they not? Who said anything about luxury? Automobile mag tested them along with some others mentioned

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

No no... it says 30 grand SPORTY sedans.

Sporty is different from sport.

Dan Martin

Yep, that Y makes a big difference when comparing the TSX to the EVO.

plutonium239

Good point.

epkim

What channel is it on??

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Spike TV...which I don't know the local channel number, but you can look it up.

dom

Along with watching it. Get the mag when its available. It will be the October issue and should be available shortly. It will be much more in-depth and have alot more detail.

gfxdave99

I record it on my replay tv every week, i'll put up a divx of it up after its on.

keg1997

I'm betting the TSX comes in 3rd behind the Vulva and Suby. I've driven the Vulva T5 and loved it. That engine is sweeeet. Handling is not quite as good as the TSX but it is a very solid car. I'm putting the Suby in front of the TSX just because I want to be pleasantly surprised when it's not :P

dom

I don't know about in the US but in Canada those other 3 cars similary equipped are at least 5K more than the TSX. The S40 gets to about 43K CAD if you option it out.

NeoChaser

then u add sti, 330...

diff classes...

ianS

I dunno why you guy praise about the Volvo? I used to have a manual S70T5 SE. It was the worst car I ever own! The worst handling, the worst engine response, the worst manual feel, the worst clutch, the worst brake, the whole car rattle like no tomorrow! if tsx has no low end torque, then the volvo is not moveable at all! I dump that pos for 2 yr of ownership and feel what a relief!

Forgot to add... the interior wood trim were following apart and the top layer of the plastic trim were peeling out after 1/2 yr(like most of the VW/Audi did) and yes, I bought it brand new not used. BTW, you hard to find a manual Volvo on a used lot!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I borrowed my friends V70R for a weekend when my Integra got totalled and I really thought it was a horrible car. The tranny was slow to shift, the throttle response was slow as a snail, the engine was powerful at high speeds, but without the turbo, it would have been a dog. The suspension was terrible (even though it was adjustable) and the whole thing just felt poorly built.

Ellswrth

I just went through the purchase exercise (and now have a TSX). Either the Subaru or the Volvo,
comparably equipped are 25% more expensive than the TSX at the real prices of each car.

If you compare base MSRP on each car, the T5 is almost exactly the same price while the Subaru is about $1600 CDN more, but when you include things such as sunroof, VSA, or heated leather the other cars are all in a different price range.

kuriso

Ok guys, here it is...

It will be eigther TSX or Legacy as first then volvo, then audi.

My pick I would have to say, that the TSX will win due to all the points it will recieve in the styling, and that it still has power without a turbo.

Dan Martin

C&D hates FWD cars. I can see the TSX getting second because the tranny will hold it back. I think the Legacy will take the crown followed by the TSX, Audi, and Volvo in that order.

ianS

I agree C&D are bias to RWD BMW. So maybe the AWD setup will bring Legacy more points too. Actually, I like the Legacy turbo very much too but after I test drove it 2 weeks ago, I think I will stay with TSX. The only thing that draw me back is the notchy manual shifting feel on the legacy that is noway come ne close the butter slick feel on the tsx. So I dunno why the tranny will hold TSX back to second to Legacy???

Dan Martin

By tranny I meant FWD vs AWD.

kaikai114

Just some thoughts on the upcoming comparison of the A4, TSX, and S40

Last week, I went to Car and Driver's "Ride and Drive" event here in Irvine, CA. The event gave us a chance to test drive the BMW 325i (non sports package), new 2004 Subaru Legacy GT Limited, and Volvo S60. We ran 3 different courses, one on Performance, second on Handling, and last on Acceleration. On the handling course, we got to drive the wagon version of all the 3 cars. My impression on the new Legacy is... damn that thing is wild, not very forgiving when you make a mistake, but it glued to the ground even through sand-covered pavement doing a 360 degree turn. The acceleration was amazing, couldnt really feel any turbo lag so it was smooth. The BMW 325i non sports package was most neutral through corners, the car stayed pretty stable even through high speed corners, the non sports package version was a handler, wonder how much improvement the 325i would get with the sports package. Last thing, Volvo S60... man, every single time at corners, I had to turn the steering wheel 1-2 seconds prior to arriving at the actual turning corner in order for the car to respond. THat's how much steering lag and understeer that car had. Acceleration wasnt impressive at all, only thing I think is unique is having rear passenger AC vents on the B-pillars, that caught my eye, otherwise, the S60 is one fat pig, slow slow slow, even slower at the corners. All 3 cars cost around 30k, personally I'd pick the 325i over the subie and the volvo, it has better interior, more neutral handling, and the prestige. But for weekend fun driving, I'd definitely take the subie anytime. The event was sponsored by Subaru, I've been wondering why Subaru didnt choose Acura TSX as the FWD opponent, since 325i is RWD, Sub is AWD and Volvo is FWD. Maybe they think our TSX may outperform or come really close to their Legacy so they chose the sloppier Volvo S60, any thoughts?

I think the TSX will handle just as good as the Audi A4, if not better, and definitely out performs the Volvo.

gfxdave99

I drove all the flavors of the new Volvo S40 at the "s40 experience" this spring. While the dash was pretty trick, i prefer the driving feel and dynamics of the TSX by a longshot..

DarkLava

Nice... Jeremy and Evernham Motorsports are awesome!

ric

I looked at the S40, which was just hitting the showrooms when I was pricing for leasing - if you option up to the same fitout level in the US, it rapidly climbs over $30K - and if you ad the awd as a "given", it really tops out. When you spend that much, then you start to look at other cars. I was not impressed with the handling; although not as stolid and stuffy as the mid-line Volvo, it tended to the Volvo-as-tank mode, even in the smaller size, and I found the body style to look daffy. The Volvo s60 is a full-bore tank, slow, stolid, heavy, unyielding, very comfortable and very safe - the perfect car for my wife's 83 year old aunt who hits things a lot when she drives. I also did not find the seats to be very comfortable in either Volvo lineup, but that is always a personal choice. Oddly, the S60 is being heavily discounted at some dealerships, and the price differential between the 40 and the 60, especially if the 40 is optioned up with leather, sunroof, yadayadayada, is negligable.

As for the Subuaru - I know they have great rep for reliability, and they fill a niche in the marketplace for small awd vehicles, but their styling belongs on Tonka trucks, not a car on the road....... clearly their styling department is allowed to pick colors and figure out the dasboard layout, but not much more. I know this thread is about performance, but I can't help but visually line up the cars being talked about and think that the TSX is one of the cleanest, most crisp body styles in the lot - understated.

If I'm going to spend more than $30K on a car and I want stuffier handling, I'll wait till the TL awd is out.......

sveet

My Bro has a new Legacy GT and say's it's a rocket. I only rode in it pre-breakin, so I don't know yet.

I have to say the Legacy is a petty nice machine. Interior looks great, outside looks pretty good, and 250HP AWD is always a good thing.

It is a little more money, but they have some pretty awesome lease deals going.

phile

TSX will be 1st or 2nd. I don't see the Volvo beating it in overall car. And the Audi is just long on the tooth.

TypeTSX

Just flipped through the most recent C&D mag, and the TSX got first place! WOOT!