Acura TSX vs. Bmw 325i vs. Mercedes C230 Kompressor
#161
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by rb1
Well, the Jetta clutch is rated for about 250 lb-ft of torque and the motor only puts out about 180, so this really shouldn't be an issue. Even folks who chip their cars don't fry their clutches unless they have other mods.
All turbo cars have some lag. It takes some getting used to. Go drive a WRX or STi and see how long they take to spool up.
I agree with you about then handling, the the body kit is the main reason I didn't get one. One speed hump and that front lip is a goner.
Incidentally, isn't the GLI a good deal cheaper than a TSX? (I got a quote for about $23K on one recently).
All turbo cars have some lag. It takes some getting used to. Go drive a WRX or STi and see how long they take to spool up.
I agree with you about then handling, the the body kit is the main reason I didn't get one. One speed hump and that front lip is a goner.
Incidentally, isn't the GLI a good deal cheaper than a TSX? (I got a quote for about $23K on one recently).
I realize that all turbo cars have lag, but some cars are better at masking it or have other mechanical components that help prevent slippage when the turbo boost comes online (both the WRX and STi have AWD, which pretty much dealt with the sudden reduction in traction).
And yes, the GLI is about $4k cheaper than a TSX, but it quickly becomes obvious that those $4k could be recouped quickly in suspension and other upgrades to bring a GLI into the same driving experience as the TSX. Like I said, it's not a bad car for the money, but it also isn't quite as good as a TSX in practically all categories.
#162
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Dunno why, but the clutch was smoking after I was done with it (though admittedly, I did beat on it pretty hard, though not any harder than what I usually do during a test drive).
rb1, who wonders who he managed to get through an entire GLI test drive without smoking a tire, much less the clutch...
#164
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by rb1
I'm just curious, do you actually buy a car after treating it like this?
rb1, who wonders who he managed to get through an entire GLI test drive without smoking a tire, much less the clutch...
rb1, who wonders who he managed to get through an entire GLI test drive without smoking a tire, much less the clutch...
If I like a car after the initial test drive, I never buy the same day. I always find a car I like first and then research it because I buy. I will always do a more docile test drive the morning of the purchase of the exact car I'm going to be purchasing and then buy the car.
#165
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Only if I like the way the car drives. I always beat on cars when I test drive them because I'm pretty particular about how I want a car to respond under certain situations. This is also why people say never to buy a tester because of people like me.
If I like a car after the initial test drive, I never buy the same day. I always find a car I like first and then research it because I buy. I will always do a more docile test drive the morning of the purchase of the exact car I'm going to be purchasing and then buy the car.
If I like a car after the initial test drive, I never buy the same day. I always find a car I like first and then research it because I buy. I will always do a more docile test drive the morning of the purchase of the exact car I'm going to be purchasing and then buy the car.
#166
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by rb1
Hee. Hee. OK. I'm glad we're both on board with the "never buy a new car that has ever been test driven by someone else rule".
#167
Banned
Originally Posted by sauceman
Then we wait for BMW to bring out it's on remodelled 3-series, and watch the war go between these two.
The TSX should normally be out of comparison by then.
The TSX should normally be out of comparison by then.
E46 clearance terms is the reason why I got my 325i.
#170
Photography Nerd
Originally Posted by LuxuriousRuski
WOW I never knew my post can be sooo popular!!
lol I love it, proves what a 16 year old newbie can do! haha
lol I love it, proves what a 16 year old newbie can do! haha
Or even better, start a thread here asking which is better AT vs. MT.
If you value your life, don't do it.
#179
I love my G sedan
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: CA
Age: 46
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All three of them look very good outside. But TSX beats the other two in interior design in my opinion. However, 325i has a very smooth engine which TSX and C230 can not match. I kind of lean towards the naturally aspirated enginer more, so I wouldn't consider the Benz if I were you.
#180
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by SilverCL225hp
However, 325i has a very smooth engine which TSX and C230 can not match.
#181
Top notch 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sauceman
Did you actually experience the smoothness of TSX's engine?
I had an E46 325i with sports package ('01, so has drive-by-wire) for couple years and the TSX I have now has proven to be as much of an "Ultimate Driving Machine" as the E46.
#182
Banned
Originally Posted by sauceman
Did you actually experience the smoothness of TSX's engine?
I have now has proven to be as much of an "Ultimate Driving Machine" as the E46.
It depends by how you define 'Ultimate Driving'. I wouldn't spend 10K$ only for this small increment, but the 3-series a still step beyond.
#183
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Saintor
I did. A few manual and automatic. With the automatic., it felt exactly like my '99 Accord. Nobody can make a 6 with a 4.
Plus, you didn't talk about the 6MT version. You damn well know that automatics have constraints that MTs don't.
Please show honesty in your comments.
#184
Top notch 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sauceman
That's not the question. If built well and right, a 4 can be built to run just as smooth as an I-6.
Plus, you didn't talk about the 6MT version. You damn well know that automatics have constraints that MTs don't.
Plus, you didn't talk about the 6MT version. You damn well know that automatics have constraints that MTs don't.
I recall attending a BMW Comparison Drive shortly after I got my E46. Back then there's no TSX yet. They had 3.2 TL, MB C sports sedan, Volvo (forgot model, never really cared for that brand)... honestly speaking, none of those competitors came close to the E46 in drivetrain and handling. But NOW I seriously wonder what results and impressions will such Comparison Drive including the TSX leave its participants with!
#185
Banned
Originally Posted by sauceman
That's not the question. If built well and right, a 4 can be built to run just as smooth as an I-6.
Plus, you didn't talk about the 6MT version. You damn well know that automatics have constraints that MTs don't.
Please show honesty in your comments.
Plus, you didn't talk about the 6MT version. You damn well know that automatics have constraints that MTs don't.
Please show honesty in your comments.
#186
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Saintor
Smoothness is not the only 6 cyl. advantage; try a rich deep throat sound that enhances the driving experience. More of a quality feel than any 4 cyl.
Please don't tell me this is what won you over to BMW. I sure as hell wouldn't shell out an extra 10 gran for engine sound.
And the music of the engine is subjective. You like it, I don't. Who's right, who's wrong? Neither of us. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like the sound of your I-6, just that it's a question of preference)
#188
Moderator Alumnus
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Windsor-Quebec corridor
Age: 47
Posts: 7,709
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
4 Posts
Originally Posted by Saintor
Come on. Nobody in his mind will prefer the sound of a 4 cyl. over a perfect 6 cyl. Be honest!
We as car enthusiasts usually will prefer the sound of the I-6, because we know what it means, just like the sound of a pssshhht will normally bring the hair right up on our backs, or a high-pitched raucous sound bring shivers because you just recognised the sound of a V12.
But the average person who buys a car for just regular reasons could probably not tell the difference between a 4 or a 6. Why, in their right mind would they pay an extra 10k for it, except maybe for the prestige of the brand name?
#191
Love TSX but just leased 325i
You know what amuses me? That people automatically draw conclusions about other people based on what car they choose to drive. I just leased a 325i, but if it weren't for the current incentives and clearance pricing, I would have gotten a TSX 6MT Navi.
Here's what I got for $25,940 (btw, everything I list below that I don't have is by comparison to TSX, but is available, but costs more). I am listing some features you might just not realize 3-series have (in no particular order).
A very smooth, beautiful sounding 6. Can't say it's smoother than the TSX, but a little more torque down low, my preference.
A great clutch and shifter (only 5-speed), but not as good as TSX.
IMHO, a beautiful interior. A toss up with the TSX. Slightly less room. Available at same price with real wood, but I got aluminum trim (I believe TSX metallic trim is really plastic, and I know the "wood" is.)
No navi (boo) and I had to add XM on my own for $300 (but I'm not counting that.
No fold-down rear seats (boo).
(All 3 series hard tops now come with sunroof btw, and the wt of my car with sunroof is 3240 or so).
All 4 windows and sunroof have auto open/close, and can be opened with the remote.
Auto rain-sensing wipers, auto-dimming mirror, auto climate control (but not individually controllable).
No heated seats (boo).
Limited function trip computer.
Both front seats are 8-way power, leather, with power lumbar support, and driver's seat has 3 memories, optionally associated with each key.
Key recharges while in ignition.
IMHO, a fanastic steering feel. The TSX is good, but here is where RWD shines. I don't race, but let's face it, you can't completely hide it when the front wheels are doing all the work. You just can't.
Front and rear vented discs.
16-inch wheels, 55-series tires. Full-size spare on alloy rim.
Lit steering wheel controls, including phone. Bluetooth became standard the month after my car was built (BTW).
Rechargeable flashlight plugs into glove compartment. Tool kit in trunk.
Heated mirrors.
Fog lights (if you care).
No xenons (boo).
Metallic paint (costs extra on bimmers, you know!)
More of a greenhouse than Tsx (important to me).
5/year, 50,000 mile maintenance included (supposedly this includes virtlually everything but tires)--(figure it out--this evens out the price quite a bit).
10-speaker stereo (but don't get excited--it's not very good).
BMW Assist (but only first year is included--costs $240/year after that).
Hey, you're right, there are E46's on every corner. But, it is a classic beautiful car IMHO, and that sure makes aftermarket parts easily accessible.
In the end, I know I would have loved a TSX, but at almost the same price, even minus some features, the BMW just appealed to me a bit more. That's the bottom line, and it's only a matter of taste and priorities. Why are some people so touchy about this?
Enjoy. I'm too old to race you to see who's faster, but I'll be happy to give you a if you wave at me!
David
#192
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by dgkFL
You know what amuses me? That people automatically draw conclusions about other people based on what car they choose to drive. I just leased a 325i, but if it weren't for the current incentives and clearance pricing, I would have gotten a TSX 6MT Navi.
Here's what I got for $25,940 (btw, everything I list below that I don't have is by comparison to TSX, but is available, but costs more). I am listing some features you might just not realize 3-series have (in no particular order).
A very smooth, beautiful sounding 6. Can't say it's smoother than the TSX, but a little more torque down low, my preference.
A great clutch and shifter (only 5-speed), but not as good as TSX.
IMHO, a beautiful interior. A toss up with the TSX. Slightly less room. Available at same price with real wood, but I got aluminum trim (I believe TSX metallic trim is really plastic, and I know the "wood" is.)
No navi (boo) and I had to add XM on my own for $300 (but I'm not counting that.
No fold-down rear seats.
(All 3 series hard tops now come with sunroof btw, and the wt of my car with sunroof is 3240 or so).
All 4 windows and sunroof have auto open/close, and can be opened with the remote.
Auto rain-sensing wipers, auto-dimming mirror, auto climate control (but not individually controllable).
No heated seats.
Limited function trip computer.
Both front seats are 8-way power, leather, with power lumbar support, and driver's seat has 3 memories, optionally associated with each key.
Key recharges while in ignition.
IMHO, a fanastic steering feel. The TSX is good, but here is where RWD shines. I don't race, but let's face it, you can't completely hide it when the front wheels are doing all the work. You just can't.
Front and rear vented discs.
16-inch wheels, 55-series tires. Full-size spare on alloy rim.
Lit steering wheel controls, including phone. Bluetooth became standard the month after my car was built (BTW).
Rechargeable flashlight plugs into glove compartment. Tool kit in trunk.
Heated mirrors.
Metallic paint (costs extra on bimmers, you know!)
More of a greenhouse than Tsx (important to me).
5/year, 50,000 mile maintenance included (supposedly this includes virtlually everything but tires)--(figure it out--this evens out the price quite a bit).
10-speaker stereo (but don't get excited--its not very good).
Hey, you're right, there are E46's on every corner. But, it is a classic beautiful car IMHO, and that sure makes aftermarket parts easily accessible.
In the end, I know I would have loved a TSX, but at almost the same price, even minus some features, the BMW just appealed to me a bit more. That's the bottom line, and it's only a matter of taste and priorities. Why are some people so touchy about this?
Enjoy. I'm too old to race you to see who's faster, but I'll be happy to give you a if you wave at me!
David
And it looks like you bought the car that suited your needs, so for you.
#193
I'm the Firestarter
Good to know that BMWs can be had for a comparable price, and it has a lot of cool features, but those are just inexplicable to me:
Anyway, beautiful car it is.
Originally Posted by dgkFL
No fold-down rear seats (boo).
No heated seats (boo).
16-inch wheels,
No xenons (boo).
No heated seats (boo).
16-inch wheels,
No xenons (boo).
Anyway, beautiful car it is.
#195
I'm the Firestarter
Originally Posted by Saintor
Xenon are std in Canada.
#197
No-navi, yo
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lala land
Age: 47
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dgkFL
Here's what I got for $25,940 (btw, everything I list below that I don't have is by comparison to TSX, but is available, but costs more).
David
When I was car shopping, I never cross-shopped BMW. If the BMW clearance deal was availabe during the time, maybe I would have consider the possibility. But would I purchase a BMW instead? Well, maybe I would, if I was 5 to 10 years older. BMW is good car, but it just does not fit me well. And I am glad that not everyone is buying TSX. I would appreciate it less if the street is over-run by TSX.. And if that was the case, perhaps I would have gotten a BMW instead .
#198
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Age: 55
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 05_TSX_GP
Thanks Sauceman! I was worried that I am the only one who thinks the TSX engine is just as smooth (if not more so!) as the I6 in the 325i.
I had an E46 325i with sports package ('01, so has drive-by-wire) for couple years and the TSX I have now has proven to be as much of an "Ultimate Driving Machine" as the E46.
I had an E46 325i with sports package ('01, so has drive-by-wire) for couple years and the TSX I have now has proven to be as much of an "Ultimate Driving Machine" as the E46.
#199
05 C230K & 09 135i 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: GA
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I disagree with the engine smoothness. Having owned a 99 Accord four-cylinder, and driven a TSX and 05 Accord four-cylinder, they're all very smooth...
for four-cylinders. They're not even close to I6s or V6s in terms of smoothness.
for four-cylinders. They're not even close to I6s or V6s in terms of smoothness.
#200
Top notch 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
Posts: 1,741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
I disagree with the engine smoothness. Having owned a 99 Accord four-cylinder, and driven a TSX and 05 Accord four-cylinder, they're all very smooth...
for four-cylinders. They're not even close to I6s or V6s in terms of smoothness.
for four-cylinders. They're not even close to I6s or V6s in terms of smoothness.