bob shiftright

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040105/lam075_1.html

TSX Sales

1,851 in December

18,932 for 2003

Buff-Daddy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob shiftright
[B]http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040105/lam075_1.html


Good God, they sold 4,000 MORE TL's than they did TSX's in
December alone!

5,853 TL's
1,851 TSX's

dom

And your point is? what the big surprise. The TL caters more to everyday type folk than the TSX does. Its bigger and more powerful.

gonova

They were selling 3x as many when it was the 2003 TL, so why is that a surprise?

JaTe

maybe they were selling 03 tl's at a big discount to make room for the 04s

bob shiftright

.....Honda Sales were up 8.2% to a new record.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040105/lam066_1.html

.....BMW sales were up 7.9% for the year, but down in December.

http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswi...tr1198137.html

Buff-Daddy

Exactly, I was offered a 03 TL-S Type full juiced for $28,800 when I was on the lot, back in Oct. They were willing to do anything to get rid of them. I almost bit because it was such a "good deal" but I don't think I would have been completely happy.

Well, you cannot tell me that you think the TSX is the best bang for the buck around and then tell me you expected the TL to outsell it 4 to 1. I thought that with the price difference and all that the TSX had to offer, that it would be a little closer.
So when people go into an Acura dealership, they obviously see the TSX and TL side by side. So is it that the TL is just that much more impressive or are people being turned off to the TSX for some reason?

dom

The TL is bigger, and has more power. I think thats all it needs to sell more than the TSX. Most US customers prefer a V6 and the added space a larger car offers no matter the cost. The fact that the TSX handles better and has a nicer interior does'nt afftect their buying decesion. And yes many people are turned away from the fact that its a 4 cylinder.

I've said that the TSX was more of a specialty car from the beggining, catering to those familar with Honda and familar with Honda 4 cylinders. People coming from Integras, Civic's and Preludes. I always believed a TSX with a V6 would outsell alot of cars.

Buff-Daddy

Well, on the higher end, the 5-Series doesn't outsell the 3-Series and the A6 doesn't outsell the A4? I understand that the TL is priced in the 3 and A4 range rather than the 5 & A6 range. I guess on the lower level, the Civic doesn't outsell the Accord and the Corolla doesn't outsell the Camry either? So maybe it isn't always the case that the entry level sedan outsells the mid-level sedan? But I thought it would be a lot closer between the TSX & TL.

dom

There a simple answer as to why the 3 outells the 5 and the A4 outsells the 6, cost. Not as many people can afford to buy a 5 or A6 while there are alot more people able to afford a 3 or A4. I bet if these same people had more disposable income they'd be in a 5.

How many TSX commercials or advertising in general have you guys seen? I keep seeing the same TL commercial and have seen it about 30 or so times. I can recall seeing 1 TSX commercial and about 3 Billboards which are all gone now. I'm not saying the TSX would outsell the TL, but they may sell more if it was advertised. And the type of people buying Acura's, people interested in luxury and performance see a better buy in the TL.

Same thing over at Lexus, the ES330 outsells the IS and always has.

iamhomin

Aside from the facts and what not, honestly, if you were to choose between the TSX or the new TL, which would you choose?

I know, I know, many of you are going to say "it all differs, and I would choose the TSX because it's more blah blah and blah blah". But seriously, TL's are supposed tosell much more than the TSX, 1) it's more practical, 2) it's a better car, 3) it's been around longer, and 4) the price range between the tl to tsx is no where near the price differences from the bmw3 and 5, as well as audi 6 and 4's.

Buff-Daddy

Well, the IS300 is a cracker-jack box and Lexus is attracting more people looking for luxuary over sport, so they should expect that.
So why isn't the same "cost" factor true for Acura as it is with BMW, Audi, etc. Are there just that many people in the $34,000 car market? I don't think advertising is a huge factor. Once you are inside the dealership, the TSX is right there for you to see an compare.
With BMW and the 3 series can have the same engine as the 5 series, same with Audi. So, you can get the same and even greater performance (due to size/weight) out of the 3 over the 5. This also might be a reason as to why the 3 outsells the 5 and therefore why the TSX cannot compete with the TL.

dom

Buff-Daddy I've given you a reason as to why the 3 outsells the 5, its less money it makes perfect sense, and yes the fact that a 3 can outperform a 5 helps too.

I've also given you a reason as to why the TL outsells the TSX. Just come and and say what I know you want to say "The TSX is a 4 cylinder so it won't sell as well"

Read my others posts I've already said as much.
Its bigger and more powerful it has a broader appeal. Most americans don't want a 4 banger and thats especially true of luxury car shopping americans. They have no intrest in 4 bangers.
That does'nt mean the TSX is'nt a good value or inferior car. It just means it does'nt have as great of appeal as the TL does. And I'm pretty sure not having a V6 is a big part of that.

tsos

Could the reason why 3x more TL's are sold is because they physically can (i.e. Acura already has made them and they are ready to sell in the US), whereas selling three times the number of TSX is physically impossible?

Is a better indicator the length of time each vehicle lasts on the lot before being sold?

Buff-Daddy

Actually, that is not what I am trying to say at all. I think (overall) the TSX is a better looking car, especially the interior. I also disagree that there are that many people out there that care about or even know how fast their cars can go. This is the sedan market, not the sports car/coupe market. I thought it would be closer because the TSX has so much to offer and isn't that much smaller in comparison.

rb1

Indeed. A twenty-something down the street came home in a Passat one day and I started asking her questions. She didn't even know how many cylinders the car had, much less that it was a turbo...

dom

So then what are your reasons fro the TL outselling the TSX?
The fact that it has a V6 has nothing to do with it? I seriously doubt that.

jcg878

I think it has a lot to do with it, but the TL also has a lineage going that the TSX doesn't. That probably accounts for a large amount of the strong sales, at least initially as there's a rush for a new model.

domn, I've also seen that TL commercial over and over and over again (during football, where it's creating it's own road) but I've only rarely seen TSX ads. I've also seen billboards for the TL but never seen a TSX one. Acura is already well above their predicted sales volume - I wonder where they would be with some advertising??

note: I don't really want more TSXs on the road, but I would like it if people knew what my car was without explaining it for 5 minutes.

Buff-Daddy

No, I think the V6 is a factor, especially to older clients who didn't grow up with anything less than a V6. I think jcg878 made a goodpoint about the lineage factor too. You get out of the old TL buy/lease and into a new one. The TSX is starting from scratch. The TL has a few more gadgets than the TSX too, and you know how men love their gadgets.

However, the TSX made the Car & Driver 10 best list and the TL didn't, so we will have to wait and see if that helps to boost TSX sales and recognition. Maybe Acura knew that it would get a lot of free advertising and publicity out of that award and so they put the majority of their money into the car that didn't make it, the TL?

What I want to know is what Acura corporate is relaying to the Acura dealers. If I go in there, which one are they going to push on me? Which one do they make more money off? Which one is going to have better dealer incentives? Maybe that has something to do with it too?

1SICKLEX

Lexus Retains Best-Selling Luxury Brand Title for Fourth Year in a Row - Reports Record-Breaking Vehicle Sales For 2003
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040105/lam082_1.html

:P

kiteboy

I think V6 is a factor, given the number of people on this forum that keep asking when a V6 will be available for the TSX. Also keep in mind that Honda is making way more TL than TSX and there's likely a wait if you are buying a TSX (in the US, anyway).

I wonder if the Canadian sales ratio is different, given that the TSX allocation per capita is much higher and also Canadians tend to send less on their cars (the Civic and Corolla always outsell the Accord and Camry here).

ABP-CL9-TSX

It would be nice if the TSX had a 240hp version, but then again I don't think that is going to happen.

Also, where can you find sales data for Canadian car sales? I am wondering how well Hondas and Acuras are selling there.

jcg878

That's interesting to me. That means that 15,000 was their target to sell in 9 months (April-December), not an annual figure. So they beat their estimate, but not by the whopping margin I had originally figured since they predicted sales of 20,000/year by that percentage.

They went on sale in April, right?

tsx-mdxman

As has been pointed out here more than once and in other places, Honda can't currently make enough TSX's to satisfy demand in the US (and new Accord in Europe). The sales figures for TSX would be higher if they made more, though how much more is a good question. The lack of a V6 doesn't have much to do with TSX sales, IMHO. Availability is the main limiting factor. The lack of TSX ads of late is probably due to Honda wanting to sell lots more (higher profit margin) new TL's than TSX's. The TL is not constrained production-wise, either.
The TL has been a "high" volume luxury/performance line for Honda. It competes well with other overpriced imports (like BMW's) for people looking in its price range, which is a pretty large slice.

mickey513

V6 is a factor. Just about every entry level luxury/luxury cars come standard with a V6. The only 4 cylinder entry level luxury car I know of is the MB C230 BUT it comes with a standard with a supercharger to give it extra torque. I really don't see the TSX competing well in the long run with a 4 cylinder motor when all their competitors have 6 cylinder cars. The TSX will find a niche in the market.

tsx-mdxman

It already has found a niche and has exceeded its sales target by over 3000 units. Most of its competitors with 6 cylinder engines aren't quicker than TSX, so why does it need a 6? If Honda could make more, they'd be kicking some MB *ss with TSX sales. As it is, they let the TL do it for the same price.

Buff-Daddy

I'm not so sure that is true anymore. I have 3 Acura dealers with 20 miles of me and they all have at least 7 on the lot at the current time, one has 9 the other has 11. Certain colors are hard to get, but the TSX #'s around here started to pile up after the TL was released.

tsx-mdxman

# units sold per month nationally is best indicator of "hotness." Your dealers should provide their excess cars to my 3 local dealers, unless they are ABP or Milano Red.

Edit: Dealerships are probably giving TL's a bigger push ($$-wise, good for them, good for Honda). Also, Honda is spending big bucks advertising the TL - I can't open a magazine or watch a show without seeing an ad (and the damn thing is growing on me).

jcg878

Image.

It may not matter to you, it may not matter to me, but it matters to many.

jcg878

Saab 9-3
Audi A4

(though they're both turbocharged)

tsx-mdxman

That's true, jcg. But we haven't let that hang up spoil our fun, have we?

ajs887

I don't see why it should be a surprise that the TL sold more units than the tsx. The tsx was brought here to find a niche that it already has like tsx-mdxman said in his post. It was never intended to outsell the TL. The TL is made in america specifically for the american market and sold only in america and thats why it sells more units because it fills thing americans need. The tsx is a euro accord and caters to a totally different type of person than the tl.

larchmont

How tf did this thread get to be about Buff-Daddy?

Anyway, I think we shouldn't react to anything from B-D until he posts some pics in his old baseball uniform.



This was great news for Acura, for TSX, and for TL.

jcg878

Not here!

Buff-Daddy

What made you think that this post was about me? I was just suprised at how well the TL was doing against what I consider to be strong competition from the TSX. Now if they can just get that boring RL up to par with the rest of the line-up, they will be set! I'm not a big RSX fan, but I think it is nice looking and not a bad car for the money.

As far as baseball pics go, I already told you, I graduated in 96 and bought this computer in 2001, so I don't have any pics of "the good old days" to post for you. I'll see if anything is still be online...

And, in case you missed it, I want to post what bob shiftright posted earlier. It seems a few others had even better years than Acura. Acura was up 3.2%, Honda Sales were up 8.2% to a new record and BMW sales were up 7.9% for the year.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040105/lam066_1.html

http://www.forbes.com/markets/newsw...rtr1198137.html

larchmont

Online, schmonline.

You GOTTA have some regular old-fashioned pics, right? You know, the kind that your mother or somebody snapped with that old Kodak camera when you were taking infield or something? It can't be too hard to scan those and get them on here.

(That ought to keep B-D busy for a while so we can talk about TSX in peace.)



(Even Larch has old baseball pics.)

Buff-Daddy

No scanner, but I have a poster I was on and an action shot in my office, I will take a digital picture of those and see how they turn out.
And since you claim to have old baseball pics, lets see them
!

larchmont

I think I'm gonna regret saying that.

Anyway, let's see yours! Then we'll see.

dom

How tf did this once useful thread turn into Larch and B-D discussing their Baseball pictures

jcg878

Now it's 'I'll show you mine if you show me yours"???