Accord Euro-R

Acura has come a long way. And in the next couple of years it will beat traditional German luxury-car manufacturers like Audi in virtually every aspect.

The new TSX, for instance, is a tough competitor for the BMW 3-series and Audi A4. I actually prefer the TSX myself. The Acura doesn't feel as rough as the Germans while it still handles very precisely. The TSX also boasts a more ample cabin than the
Teutonic rivals. I've never liked the fact the C-Class, the 3-series and the A4 from Mercedes, BMW and Audi, respectively, have cramped cockpits. When it comes to style, the Acura is also a winner, with its clean, sporty yet precious outside shape and welcoming interior. Any doubt? Just ask the Germans. I was in Düsseldorf, Germany, during the month of July and was amazed with the number of Acura TSX's I saw over there (where they are sold as Honda Accord and comes in Wagon version as well).

Now the all-new 2004 Acura TL: what a beauty! Honda Motor Co. has done a great job pulling it apart from the cousin Accord and giving it a soul of its own. There's no doubt it will sell like hotcakes over here. It will beat the Audi A6 in every aspect and probably leave the 5-series in the dust (by the way, that BMW new design school will probably sink its cars itself). Moreover, few car makers beat Honda/Acura's craftsmanship quality nowadays.

The tired current-gen Acura RL first introduced in '96 will be replaced in mid-2004 by an all-new RL. With the new TL being more upscale, added by the pressure that the Honda Legend is having in Europe from more up-to-date competitors, there's no doubt Acura will aim its new RL at the likes of the Audi A8. Rumors say it will be built with an all-aluminum body and be available in 4-wheel-drive option.

The Acura MDX SUV is a winner. I'm glad Acura will discontinue the CL coupe after this model year. It looks too much like its sibling Accord coupe.

HOWEVER, Acura needs to do two things in order to be a major player in the luxury car arena. First, it definitely needs to take the dull, cheap-looking, Honda Civic-based RSX out of its lineup. Don't get me wrong, the RSX is an excellent car, but would be better suited with a Honda Integra badge (as it actually is in Europe, Asia and Australia).

Also, it MUST create a V-8 engine to be available in the next-gen RL and NSX sports coupe. I've heard rumors that Honda might borrow an 8-cylinder engine from GM, which is not hard to believe since some Saturn Vue SUV's are already using a Honda powerplant. This could turn possible buyers away from Acura. Personally, I wouldn't by a luxury import with a cheap, low-tech GM engine.
For those who don't know it, Honda has built for almost two decades (and still builds it) excellent, state-of-the-art V-12 engines used in its racing cars. These engines made McLarens win several Formula 1 world championships. And today, they have proven to be as powerful and relible as the BMW, Mercedes and Ferrari powerplants that live in those superb Formula 1 cars.
Honda has the best technology in the world when it comes to engine manufacturing, where it's the world's largest. It is also the 7th largest automaker in the world in terms of output and among the most profitable ones.

Doesn't it make sence for Honda Motor Co. to finally develop its own V-8 powerplant?

Well, I'm sure they will soon develop it. Honda has created a legion of fans all over the world, who, just like me, live, eat and breath their cars and motorcycles. All it matters is that it's doing its homework right and headed in the right direction.

sauceman

Hmm.

A little optimistic, aren't you, huh.

SPUDMTN

Actually...no...it doesn't. Honda has told us already they have no plans to make a V8 (any time soon, at least.) If Honda can give us V-8 power without a V-8, all the power to them. Honda is going to give us something better than a V-8. Just wait till October when the RL bows in Tokyo. Honda will prove a V-8 is NOT necessary in their company.

Next, I really doubt the new TL is going to put the 5-series to shame. Let's face it, BMW is king at performance--critics are already hailing the new 5er as midsize king. So, while the new TL may be great, it probably won't handle as well as a Beamer. Don't get me wrong, the TL will be a performer, I'm sure.

Acura has a lot of potential and I think the TSX and new TL mark the beginning of a new era for Acura--a move up-market.


SPUDMTN

Iceman

No, actually, they have already said they plan to deliver cars with 300 hp V6's driving the front wheels, coupled with 100 hp of electrics driving the rears. 400 hp is quite enough, thank you, especially since there won't be any extra batteries to add weight to the car.

finalheaven

Acura will not beat BMW and become the new benchmark. That has a very low change of happening. They will however bring their name brand up more closer then ever and compete with much more force. As even i (im the type who goes with brand name) is willing to pick the TSX over the 325i. (not over the 330i but thats in a new price range) Either ways Acura will soon compete hand in hand and maybe then beat out BMW. However becoming the new benchmark is being too optimistic.

1SICKLEX

You got to be fucking kidding me. SMoking some powerful shit down in Knoxville?

phirenze

Accord,

You write really well. Even if people think you are smoking crack, I thought I was reading a magazine or newspaper article for a second. props

Brad

Marketing pressures will dictate that Honda offer some products with a V8. Yes, many a 6 cylinder engine can match some V8s' performance. But it's the same debate over 4 vs. 6 cylinders.

GM offers a variety of 8 cylinder engines. Not all are exactly cheap or low-tech. However, what I don't know is to what standard the various GM V8's are built. Will they last the average 250,000 mileage of a 4-cylinder Accord engine? Or will the engines blow or require major overhauls every 75,000 miles? Honda needs to tread carefully if they source from GM. Furthermore, it would be curious to see what kind of refinements Honda would make from a GM sourced engine--if they take that route.

Regarding the overall gist of your message, there's certainly potential and opportunity for Honda. When I hear arguments to the contrary, I perceive--or wonder--how much of that is attributable to intangible marketing perceptions or "status" and how much of that is objective. At a given price point, who has whom beat for quality, reliability, and value? Extraordinarily high markups do not make a better car. Who is an efficient manufacturer? Who cranks out a higher percentage of glitchy or glitch-free cars? Clearly, on some grounds, Honda has can hold its head up higher than many vaunted European makes.

Iceman

It will never happen. N E V E R. OK, they are gonna put some GM V8's in their high-end SUV's.

The age of petroleum is coming to a close. We'll see Honda fuel cell vehicles in the future, not Honda V8's.

SPUDMTN

Well...I agree w/ you to an extent...the age of petroleum WILL come to a close (soon--not yet, however). I think we can say it is coming to a close as soon as hybrid vehicles are common on the streets.

As for the GM V8s...BLAH I sure hope Honda modifies these things (IF...) Though (dreaming here) an MDX powered by that 6.0 liter V8 might be sweet


SPUDMTN

Buff-Daddy

You are an idiot! Not only do you not know what the hell you are talking about, you want Acura to get rid of the only car they have that made Car & Drivers 10 best list! The RSX.

Like most people on this board, you have decided to give Acura the title of "Best in Class" across the board for cars that have only been out for 3 months or not even out at all in most of your examples.

The TSX is a great car, it's not a BMW, it's not a MB, it's not an Audi, but it is a great car. It would be nice if it was a V6, it would be nice if it had a 4 wheel drive option, it would be nice if it came with standard fog lights since they threw everything else in there, etc. If it had all that, it would be comparable to the others, but it would also cost as much as all the others and then they wouldn't sell as many because they cannot compete with the prestige factor. They had to be cheaper and had to include more options for your money in order to create a new "class" of vehicle for themselves. This was a very smart move. If you cannot beat them at their own game, create a new game.

I think this was my favorite part...

Now the all-new 2004 Acura TL: what a beauty! Honda Motor Co. has done a great job pulling it apart from the cousin Accord and giving it a soul of its own. There's no doubt it will sell like hotcakes over here. It will beat the Audi A6 in every aspect and probably leave the 5-series in the dust (by the way, that BMW new design school will probably sink its cars itself). Moreover, few car makers beat Honda/Acura's craftsmanship quality nowadays.

The new TL just rolls over the 5-Series and the A6. Even though both cars have not been redesigned in a number of years, I am not sure the TL is going to be much of a match. In case you haven't heard, most of the rumors about the new TL are not true. It is basically a new body style with a few new options that will probably have nothing to do with performance. It will hopefully be a better value, but the 5-series, MB and even the A6 will drive circles around it.

I have to run, MTV Cribs is on and I want to go see everyone rollin' in their new Acura's... Ha Ha!

larchmont

Accord Euro-R is an idiot?????

SPUDMTN

I don't think it really matters if the RSX made it on the 10 best list...it needs to go to Honda. A $20k car doesn't belong under a "premium" name, no matter how good it is. Sorry...

As for callin' him an idiot...that's maybe just a little strong. So that's his opinion...I don't really agree with the basic gist of the post, but it's interesting to read what others think.


SPUDMTN

1SICKLEX

I just caught this. You cannot be serious. The TL doesn't even beat the G35/IS/3, let alone any 5, or A-6 in any comparison, ever.

The TL is a great luxury/sport compromise. But no where near 50k cars league.Like the rumors of a RWD, 300hp, AWD, 310hp, larger TL?

Honda makes Acuras to be a step above Hondas. They don't make them to tackle competition head on.

Jeez.

This reminds me of the idiots in IS 300s saying they spank every car in a straightline. It ain't happening.

adam fiooz

Also to tell the truth the new honda accord v6 blows away the tsx and the audi A6.

finalheaven

Only in straight engine power. But things such as handling, the ride, the feel, suspension it loses so badly it can't be considered to be in the same level.

adam fiooz

Go over to the temple of vtec and you will see that the tsx is the same in just about every way except the accord has a way better engine and the tsx has nicer leather and more gadgets.

adam fiooz

Oh ya and the new accord is much nicer looking.

larchmont

If you're really interested, you'll find a couple of threads here that deal with that in detail. We had vigorous debate from both sides.

What you are expressing is an opinion. Its validity depends completely on what you mean by "just about."

adam fiooz

True by the way im adam and i own a 2003 accord v6 with navi .nice to meet ya all peace.

adam fiooz

Hey can any of you tell me a good place to find good aftermarket talk on new accords and were to find parts and maybe some movies on it?

finalheaven

Explains some things. Have you driven the TSX?

adam fiooz

Yes i test drove the tsx.rsx.g35coupe.and for the money i liked the accord coupe the best.

Crazytree

wrong answer. please try again.

93Kewl

http://www.v6accord.com/forums/index.php?s=

1killercls

NOOBS

sauceman

You hit the nail right on!
It's just so funny to see how people get so wrapped up with their cars and think it's the best out there...

Santacruz

Isn't it nice that "challenged" people can care for themselves and not be institutionalized?!

donutchow

if you compare or would rather have a TL than the current 5 series (E39) you are a fucking moron. obviously you've never been in or driven a 530i.

crisco

....and no one's driven a new TL yet, so the jury's still out..

donutchow

the TL will cost like $32,000? the current one is $29,000 base. and the 530 is close to the $50,000 range and the nicest car tested by motor trend they said.

larchmont

Now that's what I would call a reasonable, open-minded person.

But I still say he's all right.

crisco

price aside, I'd rather have a 540 if I'm to spend that kind of money.

vitocorleone

"if you compare or would rather have a TL than the current 5 series (E39) you are a fucking moron"

You're funny. But at least with people like you out there our economy should recover in the long run (willing to spend money on something expensive just because it's the most expensive and therefore MUST be the best and everybody else MUST also think it's the best or you wasted money - do you do the same thing with wine? vacations? restaraunts? women?). So... thanks!

Btw - many people who can afford BMW's would rather drive something else. Oh, crap. BMW BLASPHEMY!

adam fiooz

93Kewl thx for the info man.i am new to this and i was a camero driver before i got my accord.p.s.i also would take a
5 series bmw over my accord or an acura any day of the week.

adam fiooz

Btw - many people who can afford BMW's would rather drive something else. Oh, crap. BMW BLASPHEMY!
No not really man i cant think of a better car to drive then a m5.

Brad

That's absolutely correct. Some people have better things to do with their money than sink it in an expensive premium-priced motor vehicle. I would readily consider an Acura over a BMW.

Furthermore, I am not considering a BMW anymore than a Daewoo--both are zero on my list and are totally immaterial.

With all respect, for some people it's an all-important status issue who grope to be perceived as "top dog". We need only look at their emotionally charged irrational responses to see the substance behind their word...and lack of it.

larchmont

I guess I'm the only one, even on an Acura forum, who thinks Acura is the the "top dog" car.
Having a BMW or Mercedes, that's nothing big, anyone can do that if they have money.

But with an Acura, it makes people think, and wonder.

Of course they were wondering about me anyway.

adam fiooz

93Kewl
A-TSX Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: New York City
Posts: 74

quote:
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Hey can any of you tell me a good place to find good aftermarket talk on new accords and were to find parts and maybe some movies on it?
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http://www.v6accord.com/forums/index.php?s=


__________________
current: '01 CL-S Auto, spoiler, 30% tint

Next: '04 9-3 Aero

Any other sites guys? that one really sucks and nobody post anything.

93Kewl

Sorry about that dude. The place used to be jumpin' a couple of months ago when I was considering a Accord EX V6.

Here are some more:

http://honda-acura.go.cc/
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/f740/

www.honda-acura.net - used to be pretty good, but it looks like the site is down.