fdl

Looks like there are quite a few of you kicking around here with your site being down. So what do you all think of the tsx. Did you test drive one and how does it compare to your cl.

Me personally would say that the cl (especially type-s) will be faster for sure, torquier, and will have more room. tsx on the other hand will be more nimble, better handling, better looking with a nicer interior. These are just my thoughts. What do you guys think?

EDIT: well looks like a-cl is back up. but hopefully some of you are still lingering around.

Jason

I'm trading in my CL for a TSX, so that tells you where I stand. I did love that car though.

PaulJ7460

I also finished my lease on the CL-S and bought a TSX. This is the first car I have purchased (not leased) in 9 years. What does that tell you? However, the CL-S was sportier, (2 doors) faster, and had other "extras" like memory seats/mirrors, heated mirrors, and power passengers seat. Can i live without them? Sure. Do I miss them? Not really...the memory seats came in handy only at the car wash when they moved the seats to clean the interior. I hardly used the heated mirrors and actually forgot I had them. I'm a single guy so the fact the passengers seat is manual isn't bad. Actually I think the manual is easier for people to figure out. The CL's stereo was a Bose but the TSX 360-watt sound system is fine.
The main reason, above all, is the gas mileage. The CL-S seemed to eat the premium gasoline...maybe I got 22 mpg. The TSX has a lot of pep for a 4 cylinder, 200 horse and gets 27 mpg on an average (city/highway combined). Great car...love it!!

fdl

Well , we get heated mirrors in the TSX up here in Canada. As for the memory seats..I'm a tall and keep my seated slammed right back so its easy

93Kewl

My '01 CL-S lease is up in September and I have decided to forgo the TSX for a Saab 9-3 Vector. In all, the 9-3 offers the kind of driving experience (with all the bells and whistles and more) that my CL-S offers plus better handling. Basically, the TSX seemed more like a true 4 (regardless of how smooth it was) as compared to the Turbo 4 of the 9-3 which acted more like a well-behaved 6.

I test drove the auto tranny and felt the 9-3 had more torque-pull than the TSX did. Plus, even though the car is more expensive than the TSX, at least it has everything (and more) that I want in a luxury sport-sedan.

Of course, there's always the new TL which just might be in the showrooms by the time I am ready to buy.

fdl

Vector has alot more torque for sure. But the TSX is actually faster.

I did test drive the 9-3 and fell in love. I was very serious about buying it but took it off my list because of reliability. That and the interior seems kinda cheap to me.

93Kewl

WelI won't get into a pi$$ing match here (once again), but all the numbers in the world won't replace the feeling that a TSX paired with auto tranny is just not the type of driving experience that I am used to with a smooth and powerful 6 of the CL-S. You see, with the turbo 4, all that low-end torque allows the engine to acheive the same results at a lower rpm that takes the TSX higher rpm to achieve.

The experience with a 6mt might be a different story all-together, but I am not in the market for a manual tranny.

As for the interior, the seats of the Vector/Areo are just a joy to experience. As for other aspects of the car, I agree with most of reviewers and find it to be a very ergonomic environment. Yes, there are alot of button on the dash but each one has a purpose (Onstar, radio, etc).

fdl

I agree with you 100%.

Sarlacc

Well. I have a 1st gen CL and I went and drove the TSX as soon as it came out and I fell in love with the car. I was ready to try and buy one right away! But I'm waiting to see how the 6 spd TL holds up.

Im honestly not in the market to get either, but both the TSX and New TL (from all the new pics) are winners in my book.

93Kewl

Yeah that TL sure does look sweet. Obviously, I would like to take it for a t-drive. The other question is, coming from a CL-S, do I want another car as large or larger (TL)? Or do I wan't to go with a (smaller) car more sized like the TSX or 9-3?

danny25

I like the TSX's looks, and the interior is very nice. But I promised myself that I'd never drive another NA 4 banger, even though the TSX's 4 banger is at the head of the class.

provench

Does that include when Honda adds some electric motors for the rear wheels?

I really want my next car to be a performance hybrid around $30-35K ... hopefully Acura can hook me up Preference is the size of the TSX, but hey ... I won't be picky. I mean the TSX is engineered for it ... so slap that bad boy on the market already

rzee

ummm hmm.. and nobody wants to either, now move along.

93Kewl

I don't recall anyone asking you. Seems to be a thread directed toward current CL members, which you are obviously not. Also, seems some here even agree with some of the statements I have made.

Maybe, you should move along or stop being a wise-a$$.

provench

So for the $35K of the Saab 9-3 Vector ... let's put it up against the TL (also closer in size is my guess). We just have to be careful that we are comparing like to like ... if Acura put $8K more in to the TSX ... I am sure you would see some more power as well

But I think I know where you are coming from .... the TSX for me is the right size car for me ... I think even the new TL will feel too much like a large sedan. When I drive the TSX sometimes I have to look back to know that I have a back seat in the car and two rear doors

wiz

You know, I don't see how you get low end torque from a turbo. Most Turbo's don't kick in until about 2500 to 3000 RPM's, and then you have to wind them up (or spool the turbo) into the high RPM's to really get the full use out of them, as well as all the power. Now, a supercharger (which is belt driven) would provide you with that low-end torque your V6 currently gives you. The turbo however will only become really prevalent once you get the RPM's up above 3-4k. It's just the way it is, Supercharger is belt driven and is constantly working, the Turbo charger is exhaust driven and spools up to kick in at the higher RPM's.

Not to mention the Turbo lag...which in essence is the car's engine not having enough low end torque to perform the way it does when the turbo kicks in at the higher rpm's.

Here is a pretty good read of Turbo's versus Superchargers...

http://www.perfectpower.com/Technical_info/turbovs.asp

rzee

Just pointing out the obvious. And did I say anything about disagreeing? The TSX wasn't meant to replace the feel that you are used to, everybody already knows that. In fact, the original post have already pointed this out, he said the two cars felt different, and asked what people thought about that.

Oh, btw, I still don't remember how the Saab that you love so much about got in here, but can we move along now?

fdl

The way they get the torque in early, is by using a very small turbo. If you ever look at the tiny turbo in the A4 you will laugh. But its that small size that lets it spool up so quickly. The downside is it cant put out the same power as a larger turbo.

Not exactly sure on the size of the 9-3 turbo, but its probably smallish (maybe a k3). I dont think the Vector has a larger turbo than the Linear, but its definately putting out more psi. Both have gobs of torque at VERY low rpms. Linear -> 195 @ 2500, Vector 221@2500. Having that much torque at such low rpms definately has its advantages especially when paired with an auto.

Now turbo reliability...thats another story

93Kewl

Very good fdl, you have done your homework.

However, I just wanted to comment on your last statement about reliability. First I want to say that I believe three companies have managed to build the best four-cylinder engines in the world: Honda, Saab, and the old Volvo 2-liter. Each of these companies build an engine that will go 200,000+ miles without breaking a sweat or breaking the bank. As far as Turbo reliability, yes it is an added stress, but I know of many people in the Saab forums/clubs with Saab turbos that have over 200,000 miles on the original engine. A relative of mine drives a 17 year old Saab everyday, and it has some things go wrong occasionally, but he don't mind, with 190,000 miles, suspension parts, brakes, and steering racks are allowed to give up the ghost.

Now before rzee comes in an scolds me for "getting off track" , let me just say that the TSX is a step down for the CL-S owner that has been spoiled by the combination of luxury features and power. Hey, they had to cut corners somewhere, in order not to impede on the the new TL sales. Even if the CL-S were to survive another year, the TSX would still be positioned as a low-cost entry to the luxo-sports sedan segment. Some CL owners are obviously looking for that "smaller-car", more exciting 4 banger experience, others are not.

Does that make the TSX a bad car? No. All it means is depending on what you want in a car, it may or may not be offered in a TSX, another Acura product, or a product of some other company.

Cheers!

fdl

Well, I came very close to buying a 9-3.

Hmm..I dont know. Saabs are notoriously unreliable in general, which is why they have such a poor resale value. I'm sure there are lots of people who havent had many problems, but overall stats have historically show them to be below average reliability. A caveat to that though, is that in the past 3 years or so Saab has put up some VERY good reliability stats. I think are the highest ranked euro car according to consumer reports, and are right up their with Acura. SO perhaps they have taken a turn for the better.



Other than pure power, I dont think the TSX is a step down from the CL. And although I understand your point about the torque in the Saab, I would still put its overall driving experince closer to the TSX, than to the CL. From size, to handling, to european influence.

rzee

While you are obviously off track, I will let you off easy this time...

FWIW, a friend of mine just got off his saab lease, and vowed not to touch another Saab ever again. A second friend who just had a day long test drive of the mid level 93, forgot what it's called, decided against it. He almost got nailed because of the turbo lag, basically, he got a little too cocky about the turbo power, thought he could make a quick left turn from a dead stop to beat the on coming traffic. Now he's back to 6s camp.

93Kewl

If he just got off a lease that means if he was driving a 9-3, it wasn't the new model that was just released for the 2003 MY.

As for the turbo lag, no denying that it is there. However, I have t-drove both an Arc and Vector on several occasions trying different scenarios (dead-stop acceleration, acceleration at different speeds, etc, passing other cars at city speeds) and found it no less satisfying a drive than what is offered by the TSX.
But, of course, to each his/her own.

As any "intelligent" driver will tell you, no matter what car you drive, you need adapt your style of driving based on what the car can offer (even shortcomings).

wiz

Well, I must admit I have driven the 9-3 Linear, and the 9-3 Vector. Both were fun cars to drive, but the bottom line is that it was going to cost me a lot more $$ to get the Saab (either one) with all of the options I wanted. I went with the TSX because it's price was right where I wanted it, and the Saab dealers were not budging at all.

However, I must say that even though they were fun to drive, the turbo lag was there, and IMHO it was a pain in the ass. Yes, I probably would eventually get used to it, but for the price, I didn't think it was worth it. Plus, Saab's reliability has gone up, but Acura's has been high for a long time. But the bottom line came down to the $$$, and in reality, the TSX was more fun to drive than the 9-3.

Good luck with your 9-3 though.

rzee

True. Not trying to be a wise ass, but that's not exactly what you said when you were commenting on the TSX.

In any case, good luck with your new ride.

93Kewl

Don't have it yet, dude. As much as I love the 9-3 the new TL might just "steal" my heart away. My current lease is up in the end of September, so you never know......

elliot_RENAMED

In my CL-S, I average 27-28 MPG.. This past weekend, doing a combination of city and highway driving, I averaged 30.02 MPG . Stock with a K&N Filter. You should get a K&N and your TSX's MPG will improve too, I imagine.

It's the kind of car I'd get my girl -- Jetta-cute and handles well.

synth19

I test drove the TSX when I was getting my CL-S serviced. I was impressed by the interior and 6 speed. Clutch and shifts were smooth. I felt the car wasnt as fast as my CL, but nevertheless it was peppy. I cant see myself in a 4 door just yet, so I never even considered it.