Is it possible to hit 60 MPH in 2nd gear (6MT)? I usually chicken out by about 58 MPH and shift to 3rd (the fuel cutoff is not fun). I wonder if this is why we have seen such huge discrepancies in 0-60 times; some mags are getting to 60 in 2nd, others waste an extra second or so shifting to 3rd.

 

I am pretty sure you can hit 60 in second. They made the ratios work out that way, which is part of the reason the 1-2 ratio is crappy.

 

Yes you just get there and you will probably hit the fuel cut because its really close to it.

 

This does bring up an interesting question for a relatively new car "enthusiast" -- is there some sort of MT shifting standard for car mag testing purposes? Shift at redline, or a fuel cutoff or peak HP or ??? Or do they just use their judgement as to where to shift to get the best times?

Isn't it true that all cars are gonna be a little different in terms of best shift points?

Even though it would force the 2-3 shift to get to 60mph, I kinda wish 2nd were a little shorter, and pulled stronger coming out of 1st. I guess we've debated this too much already...

Something else that crossed my mind: the 2-3 shift still has to happen when testing 0-100 Kilometers/hour, which is a common testing scenario.

 

yes, i think this is why 0-60 times vary. some drivers are better than others, or test in different ways.

And dont get me started on the gear ratio thing again

 

Yes, it is possible to hit 60 MPH in 2nd gear...when you are up that high the RPM's are at about 7K. I tried this out by going to 60 MPH slowly, not at wide open throttle, to see how fast I could get in 2nd. And yes it is possible, before I shifted to 3rd, I let the RPM's drop a little so that I wouldn't go into the fuel cut-off range

 

Exactly. So long as magazines do the 0-60 test, manufacturers will always select a 2nd gear ratio to allow 60 mph at or near redline, which allows the car to complete the test with only one shift. I would think most testers are experienced enough to realize this, and not shift to 3rd.

One exception are exotics, which can hit 60 in 1st.

 

I remember redlining both 1st and 2nd until the cutoff point, and from what i recall, it was just about 60. yes i know, very bad for the car, heh.

 

Jeez guys....60 is easy to hit without hitting the rev limiter. You have to take it 4 deep into red (which tecnically is the redline for the car if you take into account the tach being off about 200RPM's) on both the 1st and 2nd gears. You have to be quick on the 1st gear shift or you'll bounce it off the limiter. If you do it just right you should shift into second and when you come off the clutch you'll be at about 5600 -5800RPM's at about 32-35MPH. When you hit about 59MPH which is about 7100-7200RPM's you need to be really ready to shift and as soon as it touches 60 you should be on your way to 3rd. You will know you hit third as the accelleration is almost nil compaired to your first 2 gears.

 

And once again...Honda engines are rev happy. They live to rev so dont be afraid of redline.

 

yup. http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...&threadid=7683

 

Most magazines lift shift and usually play around with different launch revs and shift points. In most modern engines (that rarely run out of breath like older engines) the shift is almost always near redline. Shifting at fuel cutout will significantly increase your times! Shifting at peak HP is USUALLY a no-no since it often drops you well out of the power band of the engine when you shift. They don't have to ues judgement really, they try different things and the best repeatable numbers are published. Again most cars will be somewhat different but assuming the engine is still revving freely to redline (most modern engine designs do this) redline will more often than not produce the best (safe) repeatable times.

0-100kph is of course a non-US test, so cars that compete in the non-US market are sensitive to this and most performance oriented cars will ensure they don't need the 2-3 shift to make 62mph. My BMW hits ~63mph @ the 8k redline. The 100kph test is a non-issue for the US market Acura.

In the end it is a shame that for the marketing advantage of 0-60 numbers that a cars overall performance is marred. If it weren't for this automotive holy grail the TSX would likely have better spaced ratios and be better for it.

Vandy

 

60 in second gear is possible, just gotta be quick with the shift to third gear.

 

Quick question about this -

I looked on the Honda Germany and UK website at the Accord Type-S gear ratios. The first gearing has a ratio of 3.533 (same as in UK, too), while the U.S. version has a first gear ratio of 3.267. All the other ratios are pretty much the same. Would this more agressive first gear help them in their 0-100km/h test, whereas we have to worry about the 0-60mph times? If anything I'd think it'd make the European version a bit slower b/c of the bigger gap between first and second.

Another thing, the UK Accord Type-S comes with 16" wheels with 205/55 profile tires versus our 17" 215/50. I don't know much about the different wheel/tire sizes and how it affects the motor as far as mph/1000 rpm, but would this allow them to reach 100km/h in second?

 

Don't forget about the final drive. I don't know what the Accord Euro's final drive is, but I think ours (6MT) is something like 4.67, but don't quote me on this.

 

US TSX final drive for the 6MT is 4.760. (you were close)
UK Honda Accord Type-S 6MT final drive is 4.388.

http://www.hondauk-media.co.uk/honda...1798-a-hon.htm

 

In Europe the 0-100kph is the benchmark that everyone looks for. And just like the US, most manufacturers look to get it done with only one shift. In both cases the overall accelaration is marred by this objective.

 

The fastest you can go in 4th gear at redline is about 105 MPH...
I wouldn't know

 

thats the last one I've taken to redline. Anyone know 5th?

 

I used to, I think it's 130mph.

 

From Car & Driver:

Transmission: 6-speed manual
Final-drive ratio: 4.70:1
Gear ... Ratio ... Mph/1000 rpm ... Max. test speed
I ... 3.27 ... 4.8 ... 34 mph (7100 rpm)
II ... 1.88 ... 8.4 ... 60 mph (7100 rpm)
III ... 1.36 ... 11.7 ... 83 mph (7100 rpm)
IV ... 1.03 ... 15.4 ... 109 mph (7100 rpm)
V ... 0.83 ... 19.2 ... 133 mph (6950 rpm)
VI ... 0.66 ... 24.0 ... 133 mph (5550 rpm)

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=3

 

It's not good, because you shift at cutoff if you want top speed per gear, not at redline. Especially from 5th to 6th, you need to shift at cutoff if you want to hope to reach higher speeds.

 

ok... i drive my car to the redline in 2nd daily... more than that. 100 km/h is approx 60 mi/h. and it is not possible in 2nd. with all the graringa nd stuff. i get 90-95 (inredline) and i have to shift. no one can get to 60 in 2nd i believe. please argue if you want, but ive tried it plenty.

 

It goes to 60 flush at 7400rpm. But 100kph=62mph, so of course you can't quite make it, you'd be bouncing off the rev-limiter.