speedraycer

My girl purchased her 97 13 mths ago. Prior to her purchasing it, the rotors were *serverly* warped. Braking at freeway speeds, it literally felt like my teeth were going to fall out. So as a condition of the purchase, the dealer replaced the rotors and pads. My concern is that the brakes are back to the same condition, prior to purchase.

I want to do a full front brake job, but am apprehensive regarding the fact that the rotors are back to sh*t in only one year.

Has anybody had the same problem, and if so, how did you solve the problem?

If you never had this problem, what rotors/pads are you using?

Are there any other issues I should look at? The suspension seems fine and taut, I don't believe the bearing are bad, or the shocks.


Thanks!

TLBaller

you did use new brake pads along with the new rotors, right?

nukys

One simple thing that I have learned to live by, when dealing with Honda brakes, is to buy OEM. Honda R&D has always been top-notch, so you'll be hard pressed to find a better performing brake pad/rotor combo. Unless of course you want to spend some real money and go with Brembo calipers, rotors. pads, etc. Save yourself some money, and headaches, and use the following link to order up what you need and do the work yourself. There's nothing to it. I suggest getting fresh rotors and pads, all OEM! I use these guys all the time; fast and good prices....

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/

Also, avoid spraying water directly onto hot brakes (when washing car, etc.) as this can accelerate the warpage. (In case you weren't already aware of that)

Boarder.97.TL

I thought our car's had brembo break stuff stock...?

TLBaller

no way...not our cars. usually sport cars come stock with those.

Vincent

Hah! I wish! Brembo brakes are top of the line stuff usually (Vipers, Ferraris, etc.) but a lot of more affordable cars are starting to use them though they're not as powerful as the ones in the high end sports cars. The 04 TL's have Brombos...

The only problem I've had with my brakes that squeeling.

Boarder.97.TL

LOL, my bad. I must have read something about the new TL and thought it was on ours.

dan jacobsen

Did ya'll use Honda pads when you replaced your rotors? I was thinking about putting ceramic pads on when I go to new rotors, but I don't know much about them.

dan jacobsen

speedraycer--I have been through two sets of rotors, one OEM and the second (don't laugh now) Autozone. I am not knocking Autozone, but I went with the really cheap rotors.... Waste of time and $$, even if cheap! I need to replace front rotors again, and I will either go with Brembos or OEM.

LDH

brembo blanks are the way to go...slotted and cross drilled i dont trust because a lot of companies just use blanks and drill them

ELA.TL

yup.. thats what i got with the brembos.. someone drilled them and did not add the plating. as far as im concerned i have had no problems with mine.. on this car or my 93 vigor when i had it.

Hricik

had the same experience on the highway as speedracer

had mechanic put new rotors and pads on and the SQUEEKING began. been back 3 times and they manage to rid the noise for a good 12 to 24 hours, then its back.

nothing like rolling in a classy car and squeeling at every stop!

are ceramic pads really the answer?

speedraycer

I went with Ceramic pads and Brembo rotors from overnightautoparts.com. Total was 200 bux w/shipping. The best part is that I didn't solve the problem.

My question is this. If the rotors are not screwed down to the hub because the previous owner ground them down, would that cause the vibration? If not, can the rear brakes really be that bad to cause high speed pulsing when slowing down from highway speeds?

Thanks

spooky3ce

I don't know about you guys... but i recomend MIDAS!!! if there is one near you... because right now they are having a special of $89.95 for either front or back breaks... Hey they might not be the best breaks but guess what... if you are messing around and mess your breaks up... LIFETIME thingy... hahahaaa... they fix them for you for free!!!

:gheywave: FREE DAMN IT!!! :gheywave:

What breaks are better than free ones after you busted the ones you first got from them... Check it out... I got my Acura's breaks done at normal price when i first got the car... so it was expensive... right now they told me for the front breaks $89.95... whats better than that...??? nothing... then again... just my opinion...

impur

I also had that damn squeek. I replaced the pads with ceramic ACT-Pro pads from japan. Drove for about 10 miles, put on the brakes, SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK. I donno what gives, my next step will be to get the rotors turned. I also have to replace the front pads, they are now squeeking worse than the ceramics.

spooky3ce

Can i bold it any bigger???

Boarder.97.TL

Just got my breaks replaced...and I think one of my rotor's is warped. they told me they were cool, but when I hit the brakes when I'm going 50 or so, i can feel the car shimmy a little bit...stops when I let off the break. Piss me off bad. I suppose I should go with some Brembo's...not drilled or slotted of course...but it still sucks...have to pay more for the labor again.

my96_2.5TL

Several things I've learned. Alot of 2.5TL's have rotor warping problems. One guy replaced his rotors with Brembo slotted and cross drilled....and they warped. Being mechanically inclined and having done everything form changing rotors to replacing starters, to changing CV half shafts to completely rebuilding a 4 cylinder Toyota and a Chevy V8-350, I'll share some of my knowledge.
First, make sure whoever takes you wheel off for what ever reason, tightens the lug nuts with a Torque wrench at 80 lb-ft(NEVER go above 80lb-ft). Never use an air impact wrench or by hand with a lug wrench. Second about the 89.95 special at Midas, I promise you they are not turning the rotors. Our cars happen to be one of only a very few cars made that have to turn the rotors on the car. The machine to turn the rotors on the car(brake lathe) cost $30,000 or more. And very few shops have one. Most places that do turn rotors on the car, charge $50.00 per rotor. That's $100.00 plus brake pads plus labor.
Third, since alot of 2.5TL's have this problem, I'm beginning to think it's a proportion problem. I think the back brakes are set from the factory to not apply very much pressure, leaving the front brakes to do most of the work. When this happens the front rotors heat up alot, causing them to warp. I'm considering getting a proportioning valve(see here http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...38&prmenbr=361). It installs next to the master cylinder. Then you can adjust how much you want the front and back brakes to "grab". Not sure this can be done yet, since our vehicles have anti-lock brakes. But I'm checking into it.

spooky3ce

I'll ask about turning the roters this Saturday... I'm taking both my 96 honda in and my Acura... i'll check it out with them... i'll check about the machine too... Because its funny that they will do the lifetime thing and not fix the problem so they do more work and then still not fix the problem and then do some more work... and more... for nothing... lol... sensless... still I have to ask them beforehand... about the proportioning valve... sounds good... less heat to the front breaks and you won't get that much of a roll forward when you really step on the breaks... emergencies that is... lol...


I already gave you points for the intake thing and now it says "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to my96_2.5TL again." but gracias for the info... have to look into it... :gheywave:

wackjum

All cars have better brakes in the front than in the rear. When you hit the brakes, the weight of the car is dumped to the front, pressing down over the front tires. The ratio of the braking force done by the front vs the rear is something around 80 to 90%.

For more proof of this phenomenon, all cars made in the recent era have front disc brakes. Many cars still have cheaper, lower performing drum brakes in the rear.

If you install a proportioning valve, you're going to be adversely affecting your inclement weather handling abilities. Since weight is dumped to the front of the car during braking, this means the rear (which is already light on fwd cars) is going to be floaty. If those rear wheels lock and start skipping across the wet pavement, your car's tail is going to come around the turn before your front does. It'll be like you're pulling the ebrake and trying to drift everytime you hit the brakes in the rain.

The proportioning valve you referenced, also commmonly known as a line cutter, is pretty much strictly for track applications. It even says in the description that this thing prevents, "that dreaded rear brake lock-up." In other words, it's intended use is for dumping braking force to the front wheels.

my96_2.5TL

Yes, I totally agree. And totally understand how a vehicles braking system works. And it seems like you're mechanically inclined also. So what would be your explination of why this car, the 96-98 2.5TL's, have a front rotor warping problem. People have tried turning the rotors. People have tried buying rotors from Auto Zone. Rotors directly from Acura. Aftermarket rotors like Brembo slotted and/or cross drilled. People have tried numerious brands and types of brake pads. And still the front rotors warp. They're apparently heating up(or should I say overly heating up) for some reason.
Here's another reason I came up with the conclusion as to why I think the front rotors are being "over worked". I've only changed my rear pads once in 5 years. The rear pads are at least 2 if not 3 years old and they still have more than 60% material left. Wouldn't that make you think that the rear brakes are not being used very much at all.
I called the manufacturer, Wagner, about my rotors warping after only 3 months and the technician said this "It sounds like the front rotors are being over worked" "Sounds like the rear brakes aren't doing enough work"

wackjum

Since I don't have a 2.5, I really can't venture any sort of specific opinion on why the front rotors are prematurely warping. The best you guys can get from me is just some blanket generic hypotheses.

First of all, I'm not denying that people's rotors are getting warped. I really don't know. But I will say that warped rotors are a very common misdiagnosis. If you take the car to say 35 mph and step (not stomp!) on the brakes and let go of the steering wheel completely, the car should more or less stay in a straight line. Heavy vibration? Steering wheel is playing from side to side? I don't care. If it comes to a stop in pretty much a straight line, you can move on. No brake problems for you. People seem to forget that braking is a very mechanical process, with metal pressing on metal, rubber scraping on concrete, and a lot of energy being converted to different forms.

A lot of people mistake ABS for some sort of brake problem too. ABS can seriously jar your teeth loose when it comes on because it's pulsating the calipers.


But let's say that 2.5's really are prone to warp issues.

Turning is not going to fix anything. Well yes, it does fix the immediate problem. Your rotors will be nice and true for a while. Eventually they'll get warped again, and this time quicker since they're ever so thinner. This is sort of like mopping up the bathroom when there's a leak from the toilet (I use examples from daily life). You've solved the short term problem (lake) but not the cause (in Soviet Russia, toilet leak on you).

Getting slotted/cross drilled rotors is not going to fix anything either. By matter of principle, the more holes you punch into something, the weaker it's going to be. Warpage is caused by a certain threshold temperature. If the rotors don't get past this level, they won't warp because the metal isn't being stressed. Warpage happens when the metal gets really hot and starts to expand. Then it contracts as it cools. Since these repeated contraction/expansion episodes are not being done in super stringent laboratory conditions, there's going to be anomalies. These become warpage.

Back to cross drilled/slotted rotors... The temperature needed to deform the metal of the rotors doesn't change if you carve out some pieces. What does change, however, is the amount of energy needed to raise the rotor to the level where warpage will occur. Slotted/cross drilled rotors can cool off faster than a solid rotor, but at the same time, they take less energy overall to warp.

Also, I should say that the majority of cross drilled/slotted rotors are gray market stuff. Have you seen the slotted AND cross drilled ones?


I have no idea what the rotors on a 2.5 are. Can somebody tell me if they're the same as the 3.2? It's possible that the rotors Honda gave it are too small for the size car. That could explain the overworking and therefore warping. I seem to remember that the 2.5's rotors are pressed onto the hubs, whatever this means. If the rotors aren't free to play a little, they could be more prone to warping then rotors that can move. I am talking miniscule amounts, but yes wheels do shift around on the hub. When a car is moving forward, the front wheels tend to pull out and away from one another. This is why well designed cars have a slight positive toe alignment from the factory. Maybe 2.5's are prone to sticky calipers.

Whatever the reason is, I still don't think that changing factory settings and sending more braking force to the rear is going to help.

Boarder.97.TL

Just a quick thought, I've always thought drilled and slotted rotors would warp less easily...it gets rid of heat way faster, which is the main cause of warping...Dont you have to fu*& something up to warp drilled, slotted rotors faster than normal ones?

LDH

yes it is true that cross drilled and slotted rotors are meant to cool faster. But a lot of the time people dont buy the real croll drilled and it is just cut blanks that arent plated. So it's just a cut blank and is weaker making it easier to warp.

wackjum

Warping can be caused from mechanical stress, not just temperature stress.

Even true cross drilled/slotted rotors are prone to warping or cracking because of the mechanical factor.

People get cross drilled/slotted rotors for the performance gain. They aren't meant for economical gains.

vanz

Very interesting conversation here! Bringing this thread back to life.

So I need to get my pads replaced...and have the rotors machined. Can you buy your own pads and bring it in to Les Schwab and have them put it on? I'm not mechanically inclined at all, but I also don't have much money to work with.

Ok...I still hear some grinding noise coming from the front wheels. It doesn't happen all the time though. Acura and Les Schwab says everything is fine with my brakes, it's just down to 15%. Rotors aren't warped or anything.

Qestion....brake disc and rotors...do they mean the same thing?

Can you guys post links to some good brakes and prices for the 2.5? Thanks all!

dubcnea

disc = rotor. when they say brake discs they are indeed talking of the rotors. it depends though on what you consider good...good stock or good aftermarket? which one you want? stock replacements (not from dealer) would be the cheapest, but MAY not last as long as an aftermarket. i got some x-drilled ones from KVR for my old car and had first set for over four years (never turned) before i got new ones. they rock. i looked it up on our cars and if i remember right it'd be like 350 or something for all 4. not horrible. but remember, when you start using the semi-metallic and fully metallic carbon fiber break pads, squeeking comes with it..that's part of the deal. the compound is different and it causes squeeking.

but i would check www.kvrperformance.com and http://www.brembo.com/us for prices and what not. those are for aftermarket ones. if you want stock ones, just go to autozone, jockos, or whatever parts store is near you and ask for replacements. some will have lifetime and some won't. normally they'll have a few different options and what not. i'd check that out and see what you get.

oh, and ps....GRINDING is bad. squeeking (from the pad device..little metal thing) is what you should hear when it's time to replace breaks. grinding means metal to metal contact at some point and that is very ungood. if you are hearing that, i would act faster than slow.

naba2002

hey i no this is an old thread but can anyone help me with this? my brakes are terrible and i want to change the rotors as well as the pads. can anyone tell me if changing all four rotors for 279 is a good deal? heres the rotors.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33564

dubcnea

where is the 279 coming in? are you thinkin of just buying 2 'sets' of those brakes? cuz i don't think you can do that. i'm not for sure, so don't quote me, but i don't imagine that the front and rear rotors on our cars are the same size. so you can't buy fronts and put them on the back. unless that guy has the rears for the cars too...i would not buy 2 sets. other than that, i have heard that brembo is a good brand but i'm not sure what line of parts they have (as far as high end, middle, low end, etc.) and don't know which those particular rotors would fall under. hopefully someone who has bought some from that type of ebay auction can give you more insight.

longeye23s

dude, im useing brembo, and whan i stop i stop. its pretty good i know the oem rotors sucks they dont seem to last, with good pades and brembo rotors i love the style and performance, i would go with brembo. i bought mine at ebay its about 250. add shipping its about 275. but it worth it..pics coming soon

speedraycer

I replaced the front rotors, pads were incorrectly shipped. I still have my original problem, but now it's ever more severe. Its really scaring my girlfriend. Can the rears be so warped that this fact is creating the horrible pulsing problem? is there anything i might be missing?

thanks!

dubcnea

this is my first car with 4 wheel disc, but i think that if the back ones were bad enough, then it could cause some issues. the thing to remember is that there is usually a lot more % of the brake going to the fronts (i'm assuming same for this car), which is why the fronts are usually bigger than the rears. however, since they are not drums in the back, i would think that if they are severely warped, that there would be some feedback via the brake pedal and the braking of the car. it might be time to just take it somewhere, perhaps Midas or some such. it's not worth getting into an accident (specially with the icy months ahead) or damaging the brakes so much that you will have to replace a lot more than the rotors. i would have someone check them out pronto.

Cornflake

I've been using RotoTek x-drilled/slotted rotors on the front and stock OEM on the rear (the rears have about 100000 KMS on the rotors). I've got Raybestos QS Ceramic pads all the way around. Car stops AMAZINGLY quicker and with MUCH less fade than before. My dad always had brake problems before I got the car from him, warping rotors, etc. OEM rotors are really just too smal for any kind of performance dirving on this car, it's too heavy. But with my current set-up, I must say, It's been over a year now, no warping, pads stil about 60% good and I drive pretty hard. Makes a bit of a grinding noise when I stop hard, but that's cause of the slotted rotors mostly, and partially the ceramic pads. It cost me $440 (CDN) taxes in installed for the front rotors and the ceramic pads all around. Not a bad deal for the DRASTIC brake improvement that it was.