black label

^^^
It's a chain of hostages.

Acura holds the dealer Principals hostage over surveys.

Dealer principals hold the GM hostage.

The GM holds the service and sales managers hostage.

The service and sales managers hold the sales and service reps hostage.

It starts at the top and Trickles down in a Reaganesque way.

The folks who aren't affected financially by surveys at my dealership are the Technicians, mostly because they aren't front line customer service reps.

XLR8R

scene 3, the courtroom, Upscale Motor Company vs Reptile Brothers Auto Dealers

the actors:

ID---Idealistic Danny, corporate attorney for Upscale Motor Company

JJ----Jurassic Jack, Sales Manager for Reptile Brothers Auto Dealers

We open with Jurassic Jack on the witness stand.

JJ: You want answers?

ID: I think I'm entitled...

JJ: You want answers?

ID: I want the truth!

JJ: You can't handle the truth! (pause) Son, we live in a world that demands profit. That profit must be provided by men with no compunction. Who's gonna do it? You, Mr. CEO? You, Mizz Customer Relations?

I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for lost customer goodwill and you curse the dealership. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That intimidating salespeople and browbeating customers, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you...drives profit!

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at Continuous Improvement Retreats, you want me driving profit, you need me driving profit!

We use words like "undercoating", "monthly payment", and "fabric protection". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent deceiving auto buyers. You use "em as a punchline!

I have neither the time nor the inclination, to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very profit I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a four-square form and take the next "up" at the front door. Either way, I don't give a &@^# what you think you're entitled to!

ID: Did you manipulate the surveys?

JJ: I did the job I was paid to do.

ID: Did you manipulate the surveys?!!

JJ: YOU'RE @$%$!& RIGHT I DID!

neo1738

why not?

neo1738

another note, if acura wanted 10 to be a satisfactory ordinary experience, what is exceptional supposed to be?

ex·cep·tion·al [ik-sep-shuh-nl]
–adjective


surpassing what is common or usual or expected.

far beyond what is usual in magnitude or degree

Being an exception; uncommon

forming an exception or rare instance; unusual; extraordinary

unusually excellent; superior:

tell me again why a standard oil change without a little extra effort from the dealer to even ensure all was well or a little more personal attention qualifies as execptional service.

I dont know why some of you guys cant understand that the oridnary oil change is what we expect yes...WE PAID FOR THAT!!!! what we didnt pay for and makes it EXCEPTIONAL or whatever word you want me to post the definition for to be a 10 is a little more personal attention or attention to detail. This is why until that oil change is more than mundane, it will always be a 5-8 and never a 9 or 10.

no one ever said exceeding our expectations was what we expect, that is what i expect to give a 10 on a survey, what i expect is an oil change done right in a timely manner, one more time, I PAID FOR THAT SERVICE!!!! just in case you keep forgeting, average is what we PAY for. What we expect. Above and byeyond is what gets you a 10.

one last analogy for you,

you go to dinner, order a steak (or tofu) dinner. dinner is ok, not remarkable, its a steak cooked to order seasoning is ok not exceptional, service is ok, waitress came took your order, got back to you no real personal interaction. after you get a survey, are you going to really rate that a 10? no you paid for a steak and service, you got a steak cooked the way you wanted and the waitress helped you but didnt give any personal attention really, only what was necessary to complete the job. see where this is going. i know acura doesnt accept anything less than a 10 or 9 i forget but that isnt our problem that you expect a 10 from us for doing part of your job. that is right PART OF YOUR JOB. your full job (according to acura not me) would be to make sure that it was a 10 experience and go that extra bit to make it a 10.

ACURascal

You're right. It's a lot of unnecessary drama. It's really all about people trying to get something (bonus) for nothing. If you expect to get the bonus for exceeding customer expectations, then exceed customer expectations -- even for an oil change. That's really pretty simple. Attempts to complicate it will fail in the eyes of reasonable people.

Wildwing

Your age says it all, neo, you are indeed a neophite, age 24. When you get some more years under your belt, you might understand. You can only do the mundane so good, and there's not enough room for improvement to register in your inexperienced mind. An oil change is just that, and it shouldn't come with anything extra. Stop expecting extras where they are impractical. Read the rest of my post a little more carefully. You have more right to be critical when the service demands it, when there are more difficult tasks involved. if you hired a home improvement guy to fix a hole in your wall, I don't think your expectations could be exceeded no matter how the well the hole was patched and painted. If you hired the same guy to redo your entire home, then you can be more discerning and critical.

The trouble is, most Gen X's haven't really suffered awful dealer maintenance experiences, as they weren't even alive during the 60's through the 80's. If they were alive, they were still sucking fudgecycles on mommy's lap. You have no idea how good Acura service programs are compared to anything in the past; I've seen them. Give it some time, buddy.

neo1738

why stick with acura if another dealer will get a 10 on my survey? that is why they strive for improvement. just because this isnt the 1960's doesnt mean i havent had service experiences. I own a home, 3 cars, and take care of my mother who is a widow. I have had some life experience here. im not saying that acura service reps dont do their jobs when they do the oil change, but they dont get a 10 without going above and beyond. its not the consumers fault acura doesnt count a 8 as satisfactory, but im not going to lie on a survey. like i said if acura wanted 10 to be ordinary, then what would expectional be? as for the guy fixing the hole in the wall, if he took a minute to say well the hole is fixed, but i noticed some water damange over their, or the roof on your house looks a little worn, something that doesnt take any extra time he could see as he walked in, and he makes it a little more personal that is enough for a 10. im not saying in want freebies, i dont, i want peronal. i want the dealer to ask me how my service was, if there is anything else i might need, say we did the oil change your wipers look a bit worn. something. it doesnt take freebies for a 10, it takes GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE. and again in case you forgot, CUSTOMER yes we pay for the ordinary. even in the 1960's if you paid someone to redo your house and it was ok, done in a timely manner expected, that is what you EXPECTED what you paid for. when he says hey i can miter this trim piece or maybe you should consider this, that is personal and gets a 10. what service havent i experienced, the 1960's 70's or 80's? WHO CARES it is 2007 times have changed as has the standard of service in America. just becuase it beats 20-40 years ago doesnt mean that i should give them a 10 for ordinary work.


A class service doesnt just come from fixing the problem at hand, it comes from the Customer Service overall.

Stevenm

I think we should have a subforum called "Greatest Hits" and this thread should be the first one in. This has been pretty entertaining!

neo1738

lol

ACURascal

WW -- Your overarching generalities and apparent bitterness are polluting contributions to this thread. That's my opinion. And, you don't know my age.

neo1738

btw WW when you were my age it was 1979 and being as i havent had enough experience you didnt then either, so your real experience is 80's and up by your calculations

ACURascal

...and, if we're rating WISDOM based on outward indications... I would vote for the above moreso than the below...

acuraTHREE

I was waiting for someone from Radley to address this thread since it clearly has touched a nerve with most of us. I could wait no longer and have now taken my 07 TL to pohanka for a B1.

I hope now Acura USA/Corporate will begin to hear the serious voice of their customers. I think they need to revaluate their rating process and/or speak with the management at Radley.

The revolution has begun

ACURascal

Here! Here!.... But, I would change a couple of things.

After careful research, including listening to actual Acura reps here, talking with Acura techs locally, then speaking with American Honda Motors (in Torrance, just 20 miles from where I live), I believe that the survey system has been subverted by the DEALER NETWORK, not the corporation.

Rather than implementing a system that teaches techs and reps HOW to improve customer service ratings (since Dealer principles may not know even really how to do this), they leave the techs and reps to fend for themselves. This leads the techs and reps out there to BEG for good survey results, instead of earning them the old fashioned way.

Couple this with a Dealer network that will look for any reason to reduce the pay of their employees and we see that Dealer greed and ineptitude may be the primary points of failure in the survey feedback system.

XLR8R

Rascal has clearly identified the source of the problem and it's consequential failings:

Precisely, and good work by the way.

Wildwing

I don't believe I commented on your age, Rascal, so that's a bit of jumping to conclusions on your part. Your post contributed nothing, so don't make generalizations on mine either. You apparently haven't read my post carefully either. Given the nature of these surveys, as we can all judge by now, it's proper to give the dealer the benefit on the mundane low cost service if it's done correctly, pure and simple. Save your criticisms for the major services where there are multiple or more costly tasks, that's my point. It is still obvious that the point is lost on people who are so spoiled as to believe every word on advertisments and slogans to the ultimate end, that a success can be counted as average when the connotation and effect of that to the service provider is well-known. On your job, I suspect you do many average things every day, but nobody is knocking you down for being average. That's the unfortunate part of the service industry that measures itself largely on surveys. No, I don't have any affiliation with Acura. But I do have plenty of experience with other auto service over the decades, and I suspect many of you are wanting in this area.

neo1738

again why should i rate average work as exceptional?

why does the dealer get the "benefit" shouldnt they earn it. i would think we would get the "benefit" being as we are the ones paying.
why is it only major services that should be scrutinized, for someone as knowledgeable as you in the auto industry you would surely know that minor repairs is the bread and butter of the service dept, not major repairs.

and all this from someone who is 28 yrs your younger, as you can tell age generalizations arent indicitive of anything now and days

AbovePrime.

I still don't understand why just getting an oil change and just being satisfied with the work & service means the service department should get an exceptional rating, for satisfactory work, and experience.

ACURascal

Neo has wisely pointed out what now, apparently, must be more succintly explained for you.

I would never proceed to what you term as "multiple or more costly tasks" with any dealer's company which cannot muster the energy to excel at what you term as the "mundane." In short, if you can't exceed my expectations with an oil change, I'll not bet that you can with any endeavor that may cost me even more.

So that you have even more information to add to what you, apparently, consider to be a wealth of worldly information, here's a little story from an oil change that I bought during my expatriate days in Tokyo.

I took my BMW X5 into a Quick Oil change place just outside of Tokyo. I'd done this before, at another chain, and found the service to be quite superior to any experience in the US (the service floor was clean, closed to the outside between every vehicle entry (to keep dust and soot out), entertainment was provided in the waiting area, etc..) and -- best of all -- I was in and out in 22 minutes.

This time, though, although the work done was essentially the same, my BMW was returned to me with the leather seats treated with leather conditioner, the entire inside of the vehicle had been wiped down and cleaned, the windows had been cleaned inside and out, and there was a hand-signed letter in a foille envelope inside the car thanking me for my patronage. Beneath the letter was a gold box of six Godiva chocolates, and a rose for the young lady accompanying me.

The oil change had not surpassed what the Japanese had done before -- but the experience CERTAINLY had.

Perhaps this story will contribute to your wealth of experiences in the world.

Wildwing

There you have it, Acura dealers. Above is the expectation of some of today's consumers. The results speak for themselves. Those of us who are a little more realistic understand the practical limitations of service. And I'd hate to see the price of an oil change if Acura decides to make the above the standard, including Godiva chocolates. Best of luck finding "excellent" service.

XLR8R

Age does not make one wise. Wisdom comes from both the desire and the ability to learn from ones experiences.

So a fairly young person of the right attitude can have wisdom beyond their years.

Additionally, the collective wisdom of a knowledge sharing group (such as one devoted to Acura ownership) can provide the benefit of experience greater than ones own, provided one is receptive:

He who knows, and knows that he knows, is a teacher, follow him.

He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep, awaken him.

He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a student, teach him.

He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a flaming moron, shun him.

neo1738

i think your failing to see my point. it is not that acura has to do this to achieve expectations which is what u have eluded to a couple times. they already do at my service dept. what they do not do is exceed them, and im not going to give a 10 until they do. that is what we are talking about. and i already pointed out the fact they do not have to give thigns away, but rather make it more personal, which shouldnt affect prices at all! i think we all agree if acura wants 10 to be just another service then there ratings are screwed up, but i dont think acura wants just another service, they want OUTF*CKING STANDING service. get the point?

lastly, im guessing all those ppl working at acura corporate have figured out that most ppl see about 5-8 as standard service, i highly doubt they screwed up their own survey, there holding the dealers to a higher level.

ACURascal

Now I know you're either intentionally missing the point, or you can't read.

The experience I related EXCEEDED my expectations.. It is NOT my expectation.

Right. The result was that I went back to that Oil Change location twice again before I left Tokyo, to the exclusion of others.. AND I told all of my friends and co-workers about the experience, and they took their business there, too.

And, apparently, the ONE who sees himself as "realistic" also is more than a tad bit full of himself.

Well, let's see... the labor is a fixed cost, so while the vehicle is immobilized for an oil change, it's easy to put someone inside to wipe it down and clean the windows... NO EXTRA COST

The leather cleaner used for this vehicle application must have cost less than 30 Yen.. so let's figure.... 25 CENTS to 50 CENTS.

Towels and cloths were likely laundry service, since the Japanese don't believe in using much of ANYTHING that's disposable. So, figure they paid 1 Yen each to launder two towels..... 66 CENTS.

The Godiva Chocolates, at wholesale prices probably cost 300 Yen... ABOUT $3

The rose was likely one of several dozen delivered daily.. (there were roses and fresh flowers everywhere in the facility)... figure maybe 100 Yen... ABOUT $1

So, this owner bought great word of mouth, additional business, and repeat business from me for about $4.91 - $5.16 in additional cost. WOW.. that's going to put the cost of an oil change THROUGH THE ROOF!

It was YOU that called yourself "realistic," right?

lumpulus

Ok...it's "put up or etc" time....

I live in the Metro Boston Area...what dealership do you work at?

My G/F just totaled her RDX Tech and is looking to replace it.

PM me a bottom line with a 07 Carbon Bronze Tech with Taupe interior and a roof rack.

If you don't have an 07 then bottom line for same in an 08.

I am also looking to replace my 06 RL soon....but we'll see how the RDX deal goes...

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Wildwing, I think you are clearly biased against those of us of a particular age group.

I agree that there is not a great deal that one can do better in terms of the actual service provided for mundane tasks such as oil changes. However, the service advisor's attitude and the dealership's general responsiveness can count for a lot when the actual service itself is pretty mundane.

I get my car serviced at Radley. My oil changes are free because I purchased the car there. I grade my service visits on the following:

- Did they complete the service exactly as requested?
- Did they complete the service without breaking something else?

That's it. But the overall service visit also gets graded on less tangible things, such as the attitude of the service advisor. I have had instances where the service advisor was boorish and snotty or even downright rude and that gets reflected in my ratings. I am not expecting to get treated in any special manner for a simple service, but I do expect some basic things, like porters not racing my car around the dirty parking lot after the car has been washed, them removing the plastic liners from the seats before handing me the keys, and being greeted promptly when I walk up to the counter with no other people standing in line. These are basic customer service behaviors that every service oriented business should naturally follow.

I work in a service environment and have for many years, much more than my age belies. As someone who works in the service sector, I understand that my customers are expecting me to meet a basic level of service and are more concerned with my attitude than anything else. This seems to be the thing that many dealership service departments fail to understand, which is why their ratings from customers are often mediocre.

Even if the service itself is screwed up, the right attitude about correcting it can result in excellent ratings.
Even if the service was done right, the wrong attitude can still make the experience less than satisfying.

lumpulus

Well said! That perfectly sums it all up for me.

darth62

Acura dealers seem to have a lot more variability than, say, Lexus dealers. Some are great, some are not so great. I had horrible service experiences with Keyes Honda in the San Fernando Valley (where I bought my vehicle). However, I now live just a few blocks from Glendale Acura. They've been fantastic. Professional, efficient, and always going that extra yard. One reason I am considering the RDX is that I've been so happy with the support. I have nothing but positive things to say about Glendale Acura, in fact.

But, beyond all those issues, I think this thread is proving that Acura's way of assessing consumer satisfaction is screwed. Dealers should not be able to pressure vehicle owners, and this "all-or-none" stuff (only the highest rating is acceptable) is nuts.

Wildwing

CGTSX, your post is the first intelligent response to me so far. I agree with everything you said, and nothing your said is unreasonable. Take a good look at some of the posts here, and I think you'll see some of the customers expect too much, and there is no way you can constantly exceed their expectations, as this implies more and more each time. By the way, it seems for the mere sum of $5.16, Acura can provide leather conditioner, Godiva chocolates, and roses with an oil change. Do you think Acura should jump on this? Obviously, they've been missing something if it can be done that easily. I don't know, but if I ever show up at my girlfriends's with a one dollar rose, It'll be obvious, and I'll hear no end. But thanks for your post, at least you've brought some reality here.

black label

Simple solution

No more surveys for an oil change.

Pote757

Bingo.

I get tired of being surveyed to death for meaningless stuff. If you f it up, I'll tell you. If I come back a second time, you'll know you satisfied me. If you wowed me, I'll tell you. Why do I need to be bothered with a survey for an oil change.

Frankly, I almost never answer surveys unless there is something in it for me. I had my wife's ES300 oil changed at JiffyLube because the filter is in an aweful place to reach. Someone called me for a survey and I asked what do I get for answering your questions? A discount coupon? Hat? Movie ticket? Free oil change? That question shocked the survey ho and she said I'm not authorized to give you anything. the Click she heard next was me not authorizing an answer to the survey.

Why should I give FREE info to help you make more money? Either in the form of a bonus or by selling more cars? If you cant figure out how to make me happy, close your doors and go flip mcburgers.

ACURascal

Sarcasm is a desperate refuge. Give it up. Continuous improvement is a good thing, and it applies to EVERYTHING a business does. No, nothing is excluded. Exceeding expectations wins LOYALTY. American Honda Motors knows it. Customers are catching on -- at least those with some flexibility left in their thinking (not necessarily an age reference, but do with it what you will.)

ACURascal

Sorry to all of the rest of you with open minds... this is just to make a point even more clearly than we've made it already.

In today's NOT SHOPPED (e.g. first-finds on the internet) real-world terms (in other words, these aren't best-buy, shopped, items, just random catches from the internet. And yes, I'm sorry to say, this IS just to prove a point. I apologize for the descent into this ahead of time.)

Roses: 50 stems, $59.00, $1.19 EACH

Godiva: 2-pc (NOT WHOLESALE) Gift Boxed Chocolates $3.75

Leather: 128 Applications, $79.99, 62 CENTS

Age kills. Creative thought inhibits brain deterioration.

Wildwing

Acura dealers, I can only hope you don't run into this kind of silliness at your service departments. If you do, you have my sympathy. In fact, this kind of ludicrous expectation points out the larger societal problem of the decline of the American character. This kind of never-ending expectation is disturbing. I will continue to be grateful for an oil change done properly without having to give me baubles, bangles and beads every time.

slowsti

They sent me this multiple pages survey asking me to rate my new RDX and I look at it and said to myself, why would I spend 10 minutes of my time not getting paid a dime to help you collect valuable consumer information which in turn makes them money?

darth62

A rather extreme conclusion based on this thread, no?

ACURascal

Yes, Darth, it is.

And isn't the quote above the webster's dictionary definition of pompous self-important blow-hards?

How full of yourself do you have to be to pronounce the assassination of the American character in customers who hold retailers to their promises?

neo1738

if you read my posts more carefully, i mentioned numerous times how i did not expect more physically, but customer service wise.

MY BIGGEST QUESTION TO YOU WW
- is it too much to expect good customer service that is all an adjustment of attitude and a little more attention to detail?
or is that too far in the future and we should just hang out in the 60's with you?


they have done studies on malpractice suites. Doctors who have MORE ERRORS (instances of malpractice) but better bedside manner get sued LESS than Doctors with BAD bedside manner and less malpractice incidents. As was stated before, i dont expect freebies, i expect SERVICE!

Wildwing

Great question, Neo. Yes, I think detail is part of the equation. When I go for service at my Acura dealer, I get greeted by the service technician, he listens to everything I need, and i either wait in a very nice waiting area or get a loaner car if the time for service is more than two hours or so. The service technician pays me a visit if I'm waiting halfwary through the service to tell me how it's going, and he follows up when the job is complete, explaining everything, plus anything I may want to consider.

Overall, I think Acura provides great service, and I think they have tremendously stepped up the service from dealers of the past decades. Acura has renewed my faith in bringing a car to the dealer for service. Overall, I think that's good detail, but it doesn't involve any goodies that are outside the bounds of the task.

Great question, and I think I may have been a bit too strident with you before. Sorry about that. My experience with Acura is so much better than what I'm used to in past decades that I can't understand some of the complaining here, but I guess your mileage may vary. Thanks very much for the post.

neo1738

i think this is what many service stations are lacking, and what acura is trying to improve upon. i know my service station lacks this and this is why i dont give them a 10, but usually an 8.

Wildwing

I think most of us are actually closer to the same page than we think. It's too bad your Acura dealer doesn't provide the kind of service I get, because it's actually fairly basic, and doesn't involve tremendous gymnastics. I gave what I thought was a fairly good compromise position, but after all, it is based on my experience, which has been very good. To put it in perspective, I owned, among others, a 70s Ford and an 80s Chrysler, which the dealers were so inept at working on, I ended up taking them elsewhere, or doing the work myself. And I do remember the 60s, no kidding. My dad and I did the same thing with Chevys, worked on them ourselves, because the dealers were useless. Anyhow, enough generation gap, I think most including yourself want good service and personal attention, even though it may not be nirvana, whatever that is.